Yes, a general esterification proceeds to give the methyl ester. The amine functionality will remain protonated until whatever work up removes them. It would need to be mildly basic.
Glycine and glycerine are indeed different chemicals sleepy drunky eyes to blame. It also explains the NH3+ bit I didn't get. My very bad.
If this is an A-level spec. Q, I'd check the spec/past papers to find out what is allowed/expected. For example, OCR A has on both the spec and past papers the reduction of nitrobenzene to aminobenzene using conc. HCl/Sn. Hang on, no it wouldn't it'd form phenylammonium chloride, but no, the mark schemes say aminobenzene!
T'was a carefully worded Q, since glycine will self-polymerise.
Yes, a general esterification proceeds to give the methyl ester. The amine functionality will remain protonated until whatever work up removes them. It would need to be mildly basic.
So in excess acid catalyst, it wouldn't form NH3+ ion, just the ester and water?
The acid part of the ester has an NH2 group on it (glycine is an amino acid), in acid conditions it would be protonated to form the NH3+ group. The ester formed would therefore be an ion with an ammonium group, balanced out by SO42- ions.
Why would the NH3+ fall off? What possible reason would it have to do that?
I meant that it would only form nh2 (and rest) not NH3+ because I'm thinking that the acid catalyst (overall) doesn't (or at least should not) get consumed/used up in the reaction.
The acid part of the ester has an NH2 group on it (glycine is an amino acid), in acid conditions it would be protonated to form the NH3+ group. The ester formed would therefore be an ion with an ammonium group, balanced out by SO42- ions.
Sorry about this, I'm just an a level student exploring off syllabus. Can you please give the overall equation then (for glycine and methanol)?
(It's just that I thought that overall, catalysts do not get consumed by a reaction and therefore no ammonium ion would form.)
I meant that it would only form nh2 (and rest) not NH3+ because I'm thinking that the acid catalyst (overall) doesn't (or at least should not) get consumed/used up in the reaction.
The formation of an ammonium ion isn't a part of the reaction in question.
The formation of an ammonium ion isn't a part of the reaction in question.
It was, I was asking whether it forms ammonium ion (NH3+) or remains with nh2 (and obviously rest of molecule)
It's just that I read that the ammonium ion forms when excess acid catalyst is used, and then I became confused as overall, the catalyst shouldn't get consumed and therefore shouldn't cause the ammonium ion to form.
It was, I was asking whether it forms ammonium ion (NH3+) or remains with nh2 (and obviously rest of molecule)
You misunderstand.
Esterification does proceed with acid catalysis, which means that, on net, protons are not used up in the process.
However, the protonation of the -NH2 to -NH3+ is not part of the esterification reaction, and the protonation of these is not catalytic; there is no requirement for there to be regeneration of the acid catalyst.
Esterification does proceed with acid catalysis, which means that, on net, protons are not used up in the process.
However, the protonation of the -NH2 to -NH3+ is not part of the esterification reaction, and the protonation of these is not catalytic; there is no requirement for there to be regeneration of the acid catalyst.
So how does protonation occur then if it's not part of the esterification?
mil88 - you are confuzzled, the ammonium ion is NH4+, which is different from the ammonium functional group, -NH3+
Oh snap (I look like a right idiot!)
Ok, l meant the ammonium functional group. Does that form when using the excess catalyst as to my (limited) knowledge. If it's not the acid catalyst, then what causes the protonation to occur?