What is your opinion on veganism?
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Original post by Ronnie.C
I could do better.
Im not 'happy' about animal suffering but neither am i sad about it. My point in doing what i do is to show vegans that the best way to reduce animal suffering is not just simply giving up meat/asking others to, because the vast majority of us won't give it up, but instead protest to farmers about their slaughter methods and/or find new less painful methods.
It's cute you adressed me as your 'mate'.
Im not 'happy' about animal suffering but neither am i sad about it. My point in doing what i do is to show vegans that the best way to reduce animal suffering is not just simply giving up meat/asking others to, because the vast majority of us won't give it up, but instead protest to farmers about their slaughter methods and/or find new less painful methods.
It's cute you adressed me as your 'mate'.
Several vegans and vegetarians already protest and do whatever they can. If you want to show vegans how to achieve what they want then buying more meat to just chuck away in hopes that it angers them is not the way to go about it...I understand what you're saying but unfortunately you could try any method in the world to convince people what they're doing or how is wrong; but if they genuinely think they are right then you can't change that. It's life.
No matter what there are always people who think you could do so much more as a vegan or vegetarian..but something is better than nothing?
Criticising some veggies ways of doing things isn't bad in any way as long as it is accepting and encouraging to their life style choice. Deliberately going against them just for the sake of it makes no one feel any better and it makes your criticism less likely to be taken on board.
Looool..cute?
Alright mate.
Original post by jessicasulty
Several vegans and vegetarians already protest and do whatever they can. If you want to show vegans how to achieve what they want then buying more meat to just chuck away in hopes that it angers them is not the way to go about it...I understand what you're saying but unfortunately you could try any method in the world to convince people what they're doing or how is wrong; but if they genuinely think they are right then you can't change that. It's life.
No matter what there are always people who think you could do so much more as a vegan or vegetarian..but something is better than nothing?
Criticising some veggies ways of doing things isn't bad in any way as long as it is accepting and encouraging to their life style choice. Deliberately going against them just for the sake of it makes no one feel any better and it makes your criticism less likely to be taken on board.
Looool..cute?
Alright mate.
No matter what there are always people who think you could do so much more as a vegan or vegetarian..but something is better than nothing?
Criticising some veggies ways of doing things isn't bad in any way as long as it is accepting and encouraging to their life style choice. Deliberately going against them just for the sake of it makes no one feel any better and it makes your criticism less likely to be taken on board.
Looool..cute?
Alright mate.
I don't hope it angers them.... I know it angers them.
Original post by jessicasulty
That's really good for you, you should be proud that you're financially established.
Personally, I don't feel like my efforts to reduce animal suffering have gone to waste just because of you.
I just think it's a bit weird how motivated you are to buy more meat, not even because you need to, but because you want to make a group of people feel bad..?
It just kind of makes it seem like you're happy about animal suffering. Maybe if you didn't care or were ignorant about it, that could make your view understandable or forgivable, but the fact that you seem a little excited is kind of disturbing...but anyway, since you have plenty of money perhaps you should do something productive with it like donating it to charity or investing it etc.
But you do whatever helps you sleep at night mate.
Personally, I don't feel like my efforts to reduce animal suffering have gone to waste just because of you.
I just think it's a bit weird how motivated you are to buy more meat, not even because you need to, but because you want to make a group of people feel bad..?
It just kind of makes it seem like you're happy about animal suffering. Maybe if you didn't care or were ignorant about it, that could make your view understandable or forgivable, but the fact that you seem a little excited is kind of disturbing...but anyway, since you have plenty of money perhaps you should do something productive with it like donating it to charity or investing it etc.
But you do whatever helps you sleep at night mate.
Obviously I can't speak for all meat-eaters, but the reason I (personally) go out of my way to buy and eat meat is because, from a scientific viewpoint, there are just certain things (such as Vitamin B12, which I've already mentioned on this thread) that you simply cannot get in any natural way from a vegan diet. I also always stand right by freedom of choice/freedom of expression/free speech wherever and whenever it is necessary to, and I will debate this to the very ends of the universe and beyond, to uphold these values. I also fail to understand how just because I eat meat, that makes me any less respectful, loving, caring and concerned for/towards the welfare and protection of animals. I can assure you, that that is a very big passion of mine.
And also, there's the very simple reason that I just love the taste of it! Culinary wise, there's just so much you can do to make delicious meals, if you have no personal qualms about having meat in your diet!
Original post by lustawny
I also fail to understand how just because I eat meat, that makes me any less respectful, loving, caring and concerned for/towards the welfare and protection of animals. I can assure you, that that is a very big passion of mine.
Do you genuinely fail to see how being complicit in the mass industrialised killing of animals makes you less caring and respectful of them?
Because I don't really see how that can be a clearer distinction.
Original post by OPSthrowaway
Do you genuinely fail to see how being complicit in the mass industrialised killing of animals makes you less caring and respectful of them?
Because I don't really see how that can be a clearer distinction.
Because I don't really see how that can be a clearer distinction.
What an extraordinary piece of illogic. So, just because I (supposedly) "support" the industrialised killing of animals carried out by other people (i.e. farmers, by way of farming, I think you mean?), this automatically makes me biologically incapable of caring about the welfare of animals and subsequently striving to protect them by any means necessary?
Right...
Original post by lustawny
What an extraordinary piece of illogic. So, just because I (supposedly) "support" the industrialised killing of animals carried out by other people (i.e. farmers, by way of farming, I think you mean?), this automatically makes me biologically incapable of caring about the welfare of animals and subsequently striving to protect them by any means necessary?
Right...
Right...
Ah yes, the standard rationalisation of the carnist. Every piece of meat you buy supports that industry, every single penny you spend supports the industrliased murder, kidnap and rape of non human animals.
If you were biologically capable of caring about animals you would make the simplest choice in your life to improve their welfare, stop eating them. But you don't because as you said, it's tasty, you are too lazy to make a change that would impact upon your life for the benefit others.
But that's cool, if pretending you care about animals while tucking into chicken nuggets helps you sleep at night, fine by me.
Original post by OPSthrowaway
Ah yes, the standard rationalisation of the carnist. Every piece of meat you buy supports that industry, every single penny you spend supports the industrliased murder, kidnap and rape of non human animals.
If you were biologically capable of caring about animals you would make the simplest choice in your life to improve their welfare, stop eating them. But you don't because as you said, it's tasty, you are too lazy to make a change that would impact upon your life for the benefit others.
But that's cool, if pretending you care about animals while tucking into chicken nuggets helps you sleep at night, fine by me.
If you were biologically capable of caring about animals you would make the simplest choice in your life to improve their welfare, stop eating them. But you don't because as you said, it's tasty, you are too lazy to make a change that would impact upon your life for the benefit others.
But that's cool, if pretending you care about animals while tucking into chicken nuggets helps you sleep at night, fine by me.
Freedom of choice, sir. Freedom of choice. I've already outlined the many reasons as to why I consciously make the decision to buy and eat meat.
It's people like you that give vegans/vegetarians a bad name, in my view. People like you who rant your views from the rooftop without knowing what the **** you're talking about, and without possessing the capability of defending your own viewpoint effectively.
Original post by jessicasulty
Because of ethical reasons.
Original post by OPSthrowaway
Ah yes, the standard rationalisation of the carnist. Every piece of meat you buy supports that industry, every single penny you spend supports the industrliased murder, kidnap and rape of non human animals.
If you were biologically capable of caring about animals you would make the simplest choice in your life to improve their welfare, stop eating them. But you don't because as you said, it's tasty, you are too lazy to make a change that would impact upon your life for the benefit others.
But that's cool, if pretending you care about animals while tucking into chicken nuggets helps you sleep at night, fine by me.
If you were biologically capable of caring about animals you would make the simplest choice in your life to improve their welfare, stop eating them. But you don't because as you said, it's tasty, you are too lazy to make a change that would impact upon your life for the benefit others.
But that's cool, if pretending you care about animals while tucking into chicken nuggets helps you sleep at night, fine by me.
If it's just farming that you've got such an issue with, then why don't we all (omnivores and herbivores) work together to make farming practices more ethical with regard to the treatment of animals? Why not do that, instead of restricting a person's right to eat meat if they wish to do so?
Original post by lustawny
Obviously I can't speak for all meat-eaters, but the reason I (personally) go out of my way to buy and eat meat is because, from a scientific viewpoint, there are just certain things (such as Vitamin B12, which I've already mentioned on this thread) that you simply cannot get in any natural way from a vegan diet. I also always stand right by freedom of choice/freedom of expression/free speech wherever and whenever it is necessary to, and I will debate this to the very ends of the universe and beyond, to uphold these values. I also fail to understand how just because I eat meat, that makes me any less respectful, loving, caring and concerned for/towards the welfare and protection of animals. I can assure you, that that is a very big passion of mine.
And also, there's the very simple reason that I just love the taste of it! Culinary wise, there's just so much you can do to make delicious meals, if you have no personal qualms about having meat in your diet!
And also, there's the very simple reason that I just love the taste of it! Culinary wise, there's just so much you can do to make delicious meals, if you have no personal qualms about having meat in your diet!
I understand everything you're saying and respect it because I used to share the same views. The only reason I responded the way I did is because of his comment on buying extra meat to just throw away because he 'knows' it pisses of vegans.
Original post by lustawny
Well, how about I flip the argument on its head and profess that the reason I eat meat is for my own personal ethical reasons, because I'm pro-science and support scientific truth when it comes to nutrition? I would rather align my dietary preference according to scientific fact and personal taste, because that is what I believe in the most.
I was speaking for myself, not anyone else. I don't eat meat because of my own ethical beliefs.
Original post by lustawny
it's just farming that you've got such an issue with, then why don't we all (omnivores and herbivores) work together to make farming practices more ethical with regard to the treatment of animals? Why not do that, instead of restricting a person's right to eat meat if they wish to do so?
A lot of people have this view, and I do as well. However, 'working together to make farming practices more ethical' in my opinion is an incredibly unrealistic goal that would take a long time to achieve. So while I'm waiting for this moral revolution to occur I'll just not eat meat seen as I can survive and live well without it. Before you shower me with your pro-meat nutrition facts I pretty much already get what you mean and I'm kind of bored of hearing it countless times on this.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by lustawny
I also fail to understand how just because I eat meat, that makes me any less respectful, loving, caring and concerned for/towards the welfare and protection of animals. I can assure you, that that is a very big passion of mine.
How? I don't mean this in a condescending way.
Original post by lustawny
What an extraordinary piece of illogic. So, just because I (supposedly) "support" the industrialised killing of animals carried out by other people (i.e. farmers, by way of farming, I think you mean?), this automatically makes me biologically incapable of caring about the welfare of animals and subsequently striving to protect them by any means necessary?
Right...
Right...
No, it just makes you stupid. And the word you're looking for is fallacy.
Original post by Ronnie.C
I could do better.
Im not 'happy' about animal suffering but neither am i sad about it. My point in doing what i do is to show vegans that the best way to reduce animal suffering is not just simply giving up meat/asking others to, because the vast majority of us won't give it up, but instead protest to farmers about their slaughter methods and/or find new less painful methods.
It's cute you adressed me as your 'mate'.
Im not 'happy' about animal suffering but neither am i sad about it. My point in doing what i do is to show vegans that the best way to reduce animal suffering is not just simply giving up meat/asking others to, because the vast majority of us won't give it up, but instead protest to farmers about their slaughter methods and/or find new less painful methods.
It's cute you adressed me as your 'mate'.
You're argument is ridiculous, you're throwing away perfectly good food to show people who don't eat said food that your argument is better? So you're teaching those damn vegans a lesson while also throwing away food that another person could have bought or you could have donated to charity?
Protesting to farmers would be a good idea but the scale of meat and dairy farming is so in demand that they can't change their ways because they need to get the food out and get the milk out. Therefore, if the demand for meat and dairy was lower then they could maybe change or reduce the amount of chickens/cows/pigs that they breed and slaughter.
You're trolling on this thread is getting pretty boring now.
Original post by lustawny
Also, it's worth noting that the only way of including Vitamin B12 into a vegan diet is through artificial means. Eating food derived from animals is the only way to obtain it naturally.
It's not. There's loads of evidence that we consume b12 from mushrooms, yeast and bacteria that's on raw food.
Original post by jessicasulty
How? I don't mean this in a condescending way.
Original post by Sae.HH
No, it just makes you stupid. And the word you're looking for is fallacy.
Well, just to give you one example; even though I'm pro-science, I believe that scientists should be actively looking for more effective alternatives to animal testing - such as testing on living humans who have consciously given consent to do so, and to humans who have given written consent for their body to be used for scientific experimentation after death.
Original post by lustawny
Well, just to give you one example; even though I'm pro-science, I believe that scientists should be actively looking for more effective alternatives to animal testing - such as testing on living humans who have consciously given consent to do so, and to humans who have given written consent for their body to be used for scientific experimentation after death.
For the record I am absolutely against the vast majority of non-medical animal testing, but while the idea of consenting humans replacing animal subjects would be nice, it suffers from a combination of being far too limited in scope couple with being far too dangerous to perform in early stages of testing. We do already make extensive use of consenting human trials, but only once the "products" being tested have reached an acceptable point of safety to make it a useful and ethical practice. Even with consent, initial rounds of trials typically have far higher mortality rates on subjects than the versions we see that make to human research phase. Along with that, these things can initially be tested in thousands of variants simultaneously, something that's simply not achievable with human subjects. Similarly I am of the opinion that organ/tissue donation should be opt-out rather than opt-in as it currently is, but the usefulness of non-living tissue is of significantly less usefulness in a lot of cases. These are barriers that no real amount of "looking into" can yield viable alternatives so for the time being, animal testing is a necessary evil for the progression of our medical and pharmaceutical industries.
(edited 8 years ago)
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
GO Vegetarian. NOT vegan.
No need to deprive yourself of milk.
GO Vegetarian. NOT vegan.
No need to deprive yourself of milk.
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