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AQA - CIV3C Greek Tragedy

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For a 40 marker is it generally best to structure it thematically?
Original post by Waltz123
For a 40 marker is it generally best to structure it thematically?


It will depend on the question, and your personal preference. Sometimes its best to do it play by play, on other ones (signicant issues perhaps?) Its best to split it into themed paragraphs
how would you define "intellectual content" and the "argument management" of a tragedy
Original post by Classics7979
how would you define "intellectual content" and the "argument management" of a tragedy


Intellectual content would be any new sense of intelligence that the audience would come away from it with right? So scenes that create a new sense of intellect in tbe audience. Argument management would be how well characters manage other arguments in the play or how well the characters stick to the "argument" (point) of the tragedy. Like the women in Medea.
I could be wrong though, do you have a set definition of it? Thats just my thoughts
Original post by Azael274
Intellectual content would be any new sense of intelligence that the audience would come away from it with right? So scenes that create a new sense of intellect in tbe audience. Argument management would be how well characters manage other arguments in the play or how well the characters stick to the "argument" (point) of the tragedy. Like the women in Medea.
I could be wrong though, do you have a set definition of it? Thats just my thoughts


no, my notes from the start of the year say we will study ... .... ... argument management and the intellectual content ... ... ... ... of the tragedies

i had assumed intellectual content was some sort of comparison between the intelligence of the different characters and argument management was something similar to what you suggested, not entirely sure
Original post by Classics7979
no, my notes from the start of the year say we will study ... .... ... argument management and the intellectual content ... ... ... ... of the tragedies

i had assumed intellectual content was some sort of comparison between the intelligence of the different characters and argument management was something similar to what you suggested, not entirely sure


That would make sense, however, the part of a tragedy that brings about a fuller catharsis of the audience -thus exciting pathos/fear, is partly the fact that none of the characters have an idea of what will happen -makes the event all the more shocking. By definition then, the characters cannot have an intelligent reasoning, since their base knowledge is essentially the same, no one character knows the events to come any more than the hero does -excluding oracles. If you were comparing intelligences of characters, they would be mostly the same since they all know the same amount of detail.
Arguments could be made that characters hold back on giving details for the sake of the plot -and are therefore in a higher intellectual position than those characters who know nothing. Take, for example, Jocasta in Oedipus. There is evidently an underlining subtle tone that she knows more than she is letting on -she tries to constantly hold Oedipus back from truth, even more so when he sends for the shepherd, she states "I beg you for MY sake, stop while you can". She is afraid for herself rather than Oedipus -perhaps she knows more than he does and knows what it will bring? That is hypothetical but its an interesting argument.
Again, if your comparing a character's intellect you have to make sure you take into account how their intelligence will effect the plot, and how will that bring about a fuller catharsis for the audience -since that is the point of tragedy.
good luck everyone :smile:
thanks you to, so nervous at the moment
So how did everyone find it? I thought the 10 marker on Antigone was pretty bad, I probably only got 5 or so. The 20 marker was quite nice, and the 40 marker on myth was really nice, i loved that.
I didn't really like the paper, Antigone 10 mark wasn't bad but didn't exactly understand what you could write for the 20 mark apart from the obvious, hadn't learnt either of the 40 mark questions so it was a bit of a guess as well
Original post by Classics7979
I didn't really like the paper, Antigone 10 mark wasn't bad but didn't exactly understand what you could write for the 20 mark apart from the obvious, hadn't learnt either of the 40 mark questions so it was a bit of a guess as well


Yeah, the first 40 marker was really bad (I cant remember it?) The myth one was really nice as id covered that a day before, i think i got at least 30 on that. The 20 marker for Antigone just wanted you to look at the conflict scene and evaluate its importance in the play conpared to other scenes. How is that scene a turning point in the play and why? Are there othet scenes that have more of an impact? Etc

The 20 marker was so weird, i eneded up talking about the context fot antigonr rather than the passage so i dont think i did very well on that. I really hope I got an A..hoping i can make it up on the 20 and 40
I thought the Antigone section was okay but I hated the 40 markers. I did the one on forgiveness but I struggled to think of examples of it in each of the plays
Original post by Waltz123
I thought the Antigone section was okay but I hated the 40 markers. I did the one on forgiveness but I struggled to think of examples of it in each of the plays


I was gonna do that one, but I could only think of the ending of Hippolytus (how Theseus forgives Hippolytus) in terms of forgivness
Yeh that was my problem, I started writing about the context of Antigone as couldn't really thinking of what to write, I probably should have done the forgiveness one instead because I feel I could have got more for it, big problem was the time, don't have enough time to plan it or consider both options
Original post by Classics7979
Yeh that was my problem, I started writing about the context of Antigone as couldn't really thinking of what to write, I probably should have done the forgiveness one instead because I feel I could have got more for it, big problem was the time, don't have enough time to plan it or consider both options


Same here, I only just finished. I finished my last sentace as the examiner said pens down lol. My hand is still sore from all the writing lol
What did you put for the 5 marker on the Antigone section? I think I wrote a couple of points about Haemon saying the citizens disagreed with him punishing Antigone but now I think about it, didn't that happen after the passage they gave us?
Original post by Waltz123
What did you put for the 5 marker on the Antigone section? I think I wrote a couple of points about Haemon saying the citizens disagreed with him punishing Antigone but now I think about it, didn't that happen after the passage they gave us?


My main argument for the 10 marker revolved around context. So Antigone was written after the Persian war (just after) so i talked about the various things creon was saying and how they played on the fearful minds of the audience after the war. And how the threat of disorder made the audience sympathise with creon more because he was only trying to preserve order whereas Antigone was creating "anarchy" by defying creon. But i didnt really talk about the scene, i used quotes from the passage but not the scene

5 marker I did general stuff, A has buried Polyncies and defied creon, shes been caught by the sentry, taken before creon to answer for her crimes etc
(edited 7 years ago)
For section A Antigone 5 marker - i basically wrote the whole lead up cus the mark schemes are really odd in that they give marks for you telling whole story of the play it seems xD

10 marker - loads of context, Pericles, pro polis, how the myth was based on true story and the law of Athens about not burying traitors and him being a good leader blah blah

20 marker - I did nomos vs dike, polis vs oikos, state vs law of the gods, the use of stycomythia and the lead up to this moment ie. revelation of it being Antigone who is creons niece. But then I used the counter argument that the turning point was creon realising what he's done after Tiresias tellS him his child will die, and his anagnorsis

40 marker - forgiveness. I talked a lot about aristotles poetics, and the importance of catharsis, and how some plays structurally conformed, ie. Hippolytus, satisfying ending, but others didn't ie. Medea was she is seemingly forgiven by the gods with a dues ex machine for what the audience would have seen as unforgivable. Then I talked about the use of forgiveness is characterisation, so creon in Antigone when he has nobody left to forgive him, the emotive note Hippolytus ends on, Oedipus doesn't deserve forgiveness as he didn't do anything wrong it was fate. I then discussed characters that shouldn't be forgiven such as phaedra and Aphrodite.

I could've used an extra half an hour and I don't think I quoted once! Oh well, onto the Aeneid!
Original post by Oochiecoo
For section A Antigone 5 marker - i basically wrote the whole lead up cus the mark schemes are really odd in that they give marks for you telling whole story of the play it seems xD

10 marker - loads of context, Pericles, pro polis, how the myth was based on true story and the law of Athens about not burying traitors and him being a good leader blah blah

20 marker - I did nomos vs dike, polis vs oikos, state vs law of the gods, the use of stycomythia and the lead up to this moment ie. revelation of it being Antigone who is creons niece. But then I used the counter argument that the turning point was creon realising what he's done after Tiresias tellS him his child will die, and his anagnorsis

40 marker - forgiveness. I talked a lot about aristotles poetics, and the importance of catharsis, and how some plays structurally conformed, ie. Hippolytus, satisfying ending, but others didn't ie. Medea was she is seemingly forgiven by the gods with a dues ex machine for what the audience would have seen as unforgivable. Then I talked about the use of forgiveness is characterisation, so creon in Antigone when he has nobody left to forgive him, the emotive note Hippolytus ends on, Oedipus doesn't deserve forgiveness as he didn't do anything wrong it was fate. I then discussed characters that shouldn't be forgiven such as phaedra and Aphrodite.

I could've used an extra half an hour and I don't think I quoted once! Oh well, onto the Aeneid!


Sounds like you did pretty well! Looks like we talked about the same scene (Creon' anagnorisis) for the 20 marker, and raised similar points. Thats reasuring....lol
Is anyone else doing Tiberius and Claudius for the next exam?

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