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I’m a criminal lawyer. Ask me anything!

Reply 40

ipsabhatt

14

what university did you attend? for postgrad and undergrad
does uni prestige matter?

Reply 41

HaydenFordz

20

Original post by legalhelp

Hi everyone. I found a lot of useful information on this forum when I started my legal career, so I thought it was time to offer help in return if I can. I know crime is an area many students are interested in, so let me know if you have any questions about it. There are other fantastically qualified and experienced people on this forum, but I have a somewhat unique perspective on things because I have been both a solicitor and a barrister. Some initial caveats. I would prefer for obvious reasons not to say where I currently work or where I have worked, or to talk about how much I am paid! But I know pay in crime is an area many will have questions about, so I can answer in general terms. It has also been a while since I did either of the professional courses, so my knowledge on that front is probably quite out of date. But again, I can offer general help, and talk about the more day-to-day aspects of criminal work. I hope this is a useful thread for anyone considering a career in criminal law. It’s not for everyone, but personally I think it’s the best job in the world.

Do you only represent people you feel are innocent? (I’ve heard that lawyers tend to get a gut feeling about that)

OP

My hero.

OP

Original post by ipsabhatt

what university did you attend? for postgrad and undergrad
does uni prestige matter?

Oxbridge undergraduate followed by the law conversion (I didn’t do law as an undergraduate). The second question has been addressed a few times on this part of the forum, but broadly speaking, yes it does. The extent to which it matters depends on the area of law you want to go in to, and also (to some degree) whether you are looking to become a barrister or a solicitor. If you have more specific questions I’m happy to address them.

Original post by HaydenFordz

Do you only represent people you feel are innocent? (I’ve heard that lawyers tend to get a gut feeling about that)

You've already been linked to the answer, but just to add something to this. Whether it's innocence/guilt in crime, or just reliability and credibility in the case of witnesses in other areas of law, we don't get a "gut feeling" about our clients or witnesses. I have represented more clients, run more trials and cross examined more witnesses than I can count. My impression (and advice) as to whether or not my client is likely to be successful comes down to an assessment of the relevant features of the case and whether or not I think my client's position is likely to be accepted by the court or tribunal. Part of that assessment includes how well my client is likely to come across at trial, but there are other factors, and I draw on that wealth of experience to inform my overall view. So it's not a "gut feeling", it's an assessment of the client and their case based on the lawyer's experience of dealing with similar cases and similar clients.

Two more things though. First, it's not about innocence or guilt. Whether your client actually committed the crime is of limited relevance. What matters is whether the prosecution can prove that they committed the crime. Equally, in other areas of law it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It matters who is likely to be able to construct the stronger case based on the available evidence. Second, even with extensive experience, lawyers can always be (and often are) wrong in their assessment of a case. I only ever advise clients as to the strengths and weaknesses of their case, and what I think is most likely to happen at trial. I can never guarantee anything, in fact very far from it. Litigation is inherently unpredictable, and as a result any lawyer can always be wrong in their assessment of a client or a case. So even if criminal lawyers only represented those that they felt were innocent (which they don't), one of the major problems with that is that those lawyers would know that in fact short of the client actually confessing to them or being caught utterly red handed, they can never know whether a person is guilty (or, for that matter, innocent). As it happens, whether a person is actually guilty really isn't relevant at all, as I've already said.

Reply 45

LawOrSoftware

1

Hi there, thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions, also thank you for taking the time to read my post earlier.

1. What are your thoughts on switching career from Tech to Law? If you put yourself into a 29 year old software developers shoes, what would you do? Is it too late?

2. Do you know of/worked with anyone who has switched careers similar to the scenario in question number 1?

3. How do you find cases? Are they assigned to you? (From where?). Or are you self employed?

4. Barrister or Solicitor; which did you find the most fulfilling? Fulfilment in terms of really getting that “I’m making a difference to society” feeling.

5. How many hours do you typically work per week?

Thanks again!

Reply 46

therandomess

7

what qualities of a person is best suited to the law profession in your opinion?

Reply 47

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by LawOrSoftware

Hi there, thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions, also thank you for taking the time to read my post earlier.

1. What are your thoughts on switching career from Tech to Law? If you put yourself into a 29 year old software developers shoes, what would you do? Is it too late?

2. Do you know of/worked with anyone who has switched careers similar to the scenario in question number 1?

3. How do you find cases? Are they assigned to you? (From where?). Or are you self employed?

4. Barrister or Solicitor; which did you find the most fulfilling? Fulfilment in terms of really getting that “I’m making a difference to society” feeling.

5. How many hours do you typically work per week?

Thanks again!

No problem. As it’s getting late, I will deal with the easier questions now, and the longer ones tomorrow if that’s ok.

3. Solicitors are employed, and work will be distributed within the firm in different ways depending mainly on the size of the firm and the kind of work they do. Barristers are generally self-employed, and so will eventually have to bring in their own work (although in reality, at the very junior end, much of your time is spent helping other members of chambers, and doing odds and ends allocated to you by the clerks).

4. I’m not sure I have ever actively sought that kind of fulfilment, so I’m not sure I know how to answer this. I assume also you are talking about crime, and within that, defence work, per your previous post. If you want to spend a lot of time on face-to-face interaction with clients, then you might be more suited to being a solicitor. Your role as a barrister is sometimes more transitory, and unless you do direct access work (which many don’t), your relationship will be with your instructing solicitor, not the individual lay client. But if you are considering a career at the criminal bar, I would avoid this kind of generalised, ideological thinking. If it is very important to you, something like human rights or immigration might be more appropriate. I don’t want to sound completely callous at all, but I find it helps to be able to be a bit dispassionate about things, whichever side of the profession you end up in.

5. This varies substantially. But absent anything unusual in the diary, around 50. I do tend to work some evenings and most weekends though, but I always have - it’s partly personal preference.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 48

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by therandomess

what qualities of a person is best suited to the law profession in your opinion?

Tough question. I don’t think there is a single personality type, and will vary between the bar and solicitors, and across different generations and areas of practice. There’s room for all sorts, from a brash City corporate partner who never looks at any law if he can help it, to a quiet, technical tax barrister whose practice is entirely advisory. But what most have in common is intellectual ability, a strong academic record, and being able to work hard.

Original post by LawOrSoftware

Hi there, thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions, also thank you for taking the time to read my post earlier.

1. What are your thoughts on switching career from Tech to Law? If you put yourself into a 29 year old software developers shoes, what would you do? Is it too late?

2. Do you know of/worked with anyone who has switched careers similar to the scenario in question number 1?

Hopefully legalhelp won't mind me weighing in on some of these questions. No doubt they'll tell me if they do, I just thought it might be useful to offer another perspective.

I know a fair few people who have changed careers to come to the Bar. A couple of former teachers come to mind, and one who I'm sure did used to be in the tech industry, but I can't be sure off the top of my head in what capacity. I can tell you that it certainly isn't too late at 29; many have and will continue to come to the Bar later than that. As to whether it is the right decision, that depends on a lot of factors, and there isn't enough information in your post for me to provide a view on that. Ultimately it comes down to whether transferring to the Bar and securing pupillage is a realistic ambition for you, and whether it is a risk that you are able and willing to take. Your previous academics are relevant, but slightly less so than if you didn't already have an established career. What is relevant is the skills that you have developed during that career and the extent to which they are transferable. You'll then need to show ability in the steps you take before applying for pupillage, which presumably include how you do on the GDL and BTC, as well as filling in some obvious gaps such as legal work experience. If you think you can do all that, think you are suited to the profession, and (more importantly) think you will be able to demonstrate that ability, then a career switch may well be a viable option for you.

3. How do you find cases? Are they assigned to you? (From where?). Or are you self employed?

All barristers that are members of a Chambers have clerks that manage, amongst other things, their diary and case load. So whilst we are all self employed, there are marked differences in terms of how our professional lives work compared to others who are self employed. One of those is that work comes into Chambers from solicitors through the clerks, and generally one of two things will happen. Sometimes the solicitor will leave it to the clerk to assign the case, perhaps saying that they need a barrister of x years call or similar (or a particular grade of prosecutor in crime, for example), but the choice will be the clerk's as to which barrister gets that case. It's one of the reasons why having good clerks is very important to developing a practice, as is having a good relationship with the clerks. Alternatively solicitors may specifically ask for you, which should happen more and more as time goes on. When legalhelp mentions bringing work in yourself, it's again not in the traditional self employed sense of marketing or similar. It's in forging relationships with solicitors and taking opportunities when they come your way. As your practice and skills develop you will become someone that solicitors know and want to instruct, and hence you will start to bring in work on your own account. When you're starting out the cases that come into your diary are ones that by and large the clerks will assign to you.

5. How many hours do you typically work per week?

I know this has been answered, but just to note that this varies significantly from barrister to barrister and even from week to week. We don't have set hours and we don't work office hours. You will often prep a trial in the evening, run it the next day, and then prep the next trial that same evening, and indeed early on you may do that for weeks in a row. You will often have to work weekends. But then there will be gaps in your diary and unexpected time off when cases settle or there just isn't work for that day. It'll make you concerned that your practice is dying, until it suddenly picks up again and you can't move for work.

Managing your hours and case load is a skill in and of itself that you will get better at over time, because whilst you are self employed and technically have complete control over when you work, in practice you don't and will have to take active steps to find that time, which in the early years you will struggle to do, because you don't want to reject work. It is also something that becomes easier when you have developed a good relationship with your clerks, but there is not a single barrister anywhere in the country who is not overworked from time to time, and many are quite regularly. Managing your hours and workload is not a skill that any of us has perfected.

Reply 50

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by Crazy Jamie

Very pleased to have you weigh in Crazy Jamie, thank you. For what it’s worth, I agree with everything you have said, and don’t have much to add. The only thing I would raise is that I got the impression OP would need to do an undergraduate degree (i.e. the GDL would not currently be an option). OP, is that right? I think you were considering a part-time law degree alongside work? If so, I think it is even more important to consider carefully the time and financial investment you would be making, and the competitiveness of the market for new entrants. I don’t think it’s too late, and there are areas (IP?) where you could take advantage of your obvious expertise from your current work. But it’s clearly not something you should undertake lightly. One thought: you said you were pretty fixed on being a solicitor, but have you given any thought to the bar? Solicitors firms are quite hierarchical places, so mature entrants to the profession might find it a bit more restrictive in terms of how quickly you can progress. But as barristers are responsible for their own practice, you can take advantage a bit more of your age and perceived authority, if that makes sense?

Reply 51

RatherBeAnon

4

Hi, I was wondering if you could help me as I’ve already posted, but haven’t received a response.
My essay question is

“Criminal Justice professionals require good communication skills and understanding of criminological phenomenon. Discuss.”

I’m not sure if I’m interpreting “criminological phenomenon” correctly and I’ve looked through all of the resources provided by my uni.
I don’t want to answer the question wrong so was wondering if by any chance you knew what the phrase means?

Reply 52

sunnytaeq

13

(quite off topic sorry)
Do you think becoming a criminal solicitor is risky as you are dealing with those who could be potentially dangerous people

Reply 53

therandomess

7

what does your typical day to day work entail?

Reply 54

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by RatherBeAnon

Hi, I was wondering if you could help me as I’ve already posted, but haven’t received a response.
My essay question is

“Criminal Justice professionals require good communication skills and understanding of criminological phenomenon. Discuss.”

I’m not sure if I’m interpreting “criminological phenomenon” correctly and I’ve looked through all of the resources provided by my uni.
I don’t want to answer the question wrong so was wondering if by any chance you knew what the phrase means?

Hi there. I’m very sorry, but I’m afraid I have absolutely no idea what that expression means! I think you would be best checking with the person who set you the essay. I don’t think it’s a silly question!

Reply 55

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by sunnytaeq

(quite off topic sorry)
Do you think becoming a criminal solicitor is risky as you are dealing with those who could be potentially dangerous people

Not off topic, and a good question. It does take some time to get used to things like prison conferences (meetings with clients), and you are obviously sometimes dealing with some difficult people. But there are almost always staff around to help if things get truly out of hand, wherever you are (prison staff, court staff, plus there’s always police officers floating around when you’re in court). I’m sure some people have horror stories but I’ve never felt in any real danger.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 56

fhhhhfffe

5

U have my dream job, i just wanted to ask was it hard finding a job after your degree completion?

Reply 57

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by fhhhhfffe

U have my dream job, i just wanted to ask was it hard finding a job after your degree completion?

That’s a tricky one, because I haven’t had the most normal journey to the criminal bar. I did a non-law subject at university, then the law conversion, then I was a solicitor for a long time, then I moved to the bar. So the job I got out of university was a training contract as a solicitor. To be completely honest, although the application process was a bit of a pain, I didn’t find it that difficult, but the reason for that (without trying to brag at all, just being open) is that I had a pretty solid academic record all the way from GCSE. So if the law is your goal, having really stellar academics won’t necessarily be enough just on its own, but it will honestly make everything so, so much easier.

Reply 58

legalhelp

OP

16

Original post by therandomess

what does your typical day to day work entail?

Hi there. The great thing about my job now as a barrister is that I don’t have a typical day. As a solicitor it was more regular, but still not completely predictable. It would be a mixture of conferences (meetings) with clients, prep for hearings or trials, a lot of going to interviews at police stations, and dealing with the CPS. Plus a healthy amount of general admin, training juniors etc.

Reply 59

niamhcannon__

5

Hi, do you know of any criminal lawyer apprenticeships in London. Im looking to start in September.

I’m a criminal lawyer. Ask me anything!

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