I’m a criminal lawyer. Ask me anything!

OP

Original post by niamhcannon__

Hi, do you know of any criminal lawyer apprenticeships in London. Im looking to start in September.

Are you thinking of becoming a barrister, a solicitor, or are you not yet sure? There aren't really apprenticeship positions for either but there are work experience opportunities if that is what you're looking for.

Reply 62

OP

Original post by SydK

Hi, which career did you prefer; barrister or solicitor? And what would be your key piece of advice for your younger self (or just anyone) who is looking to get a career in law?
Any advice is appreciated,
Many thanks.

Personally, I much prefer being a barrister. More autonomy, the chance to do advocacy, and in my opinion, more intellectually challenging work. But I know quite a few barristers who have moved the other way because they didn't enjoy the bar, and also plenty of very happy solicitors. They are such different roles, which is why work experience in both areas is really valuable if you're on the fence.

In terms of advice to young people looking to get into criminal law in particular, there's plenty I could say. But I'll try to stick to my top 3:

- First, do whatever you need to do to get the best possible grades you can at A level and in your degree. As I've said to other posters, you don't need straight As at A level and a first from a good university to get into law, but it really, really helps. If you can put yourself in a position where your academic record speaks for itself, then you can spend your energy working on other areas of your CV without having to worry about getting filtered out just on the basis of your grades. A sub-part of that: do one serious essay subject, but apart from that it doesn't matter what subjects you do; do what you enjoy, and what you are best at.

- Second, try to be a well-rounded and interesting person. No one likes a total square, and particularly in crime, there is room for people with a bit of personality. Having a bit of depth to you, and decent levels of emotional intelligence, is a good thing, and is an area where a lot of ridiculously intelligent and academic lawyers will fall down. So develop your other interests, interact with as wide a range of people as you can (virtually, for now) and get good at things that have nothing to do with the law. It will keep you sane, if nothing else.

- Third (and bearing in mind what I said in (2)), read anything you can get your hands on. The more you read, the better your written and verbal fluency will be. Once you start studying law, read the actual legislation, and read judgments in full. Better to read 3 judgments in full and really understand them than to spend the same time reading 25 summaries written by someone else. Get into the nitty gritty of statute and case law early in your legal studies, and you will already be doing more than many of your contemporaries.

I could go on but I'll leave it there for now!

Reply 63

ememm1

6

Original post by legalhelp

That’s a tricky one, because I haven’t had the most normal journey to the criminal bar. I did a non-law subject at university, then the law conversion, then I was a solicitor for a long time, then I moved to the bar. So the job I got out of university was a training contract as a solicitor. To be completely honest, although the application process was a bit of a pain, I didn’t find it that difficult, but the reason for that (without trying to brag at all, just being open) is that I had a pretty solid academic record all the way from GCSE. So if the law is your goal, having really stellar academics won’t necessarily be enough just on its own, but it will honestly make everything so, so much easier.

I received two 6s (equivalent to Bs) and the rest of my grades were higher (7s and above) at GCSE and my a level grades were ABB in three essay subjects. I am starting my law degree but I heard that the criminal law job direction is incredibly difficult to find high paying jobs in if you are not in Russell group universities, does these mean your better off specialising in another form of law ? I am also considering Commercial law and hopefully want to work in London as a solicitor (I think I'm too shy to be a barrister). Do you think it I am still capable of working my way up to a high paying job with relatively good a levels and uni (Sussex or Sheffield)

Reply 64

OP

Original post by ememm1

I received two 6s (equivalent to Bs) and the rest of my grades were higher (7s and above) at GCSE and my a level grades were ABB in three essay subjects. I am starting my law degree but I heard that the criminal law job direction is incredibly difficult to find high paying jobs in if you are not in Russell group universities, does these mean your better off specialising in another form of law ? I am also considering Commercial law and hopefully want to work in London as a solicitor (I think I'm too shy to be a barrister). Do you think it I am still capable of working my way up to a high paying job with relatively good a levels and uni (Sussex or Sheffield)

Hi there. I think if your main priority is making decent money, and working up to a high paying job, then crime is probably not the area for you, Russell group or no. Don’t get me wrong, you absolutely can make good money from criminal work, but most people don’t. If you are not set on it as an area of practice, then I would focus on trying to get a TC at a decent City firm with a broad corporate practice. I won’t lie to you: it’s competitive, and although your GCSEs and A level grades are very good, you’re not going to walk into a TC in London. However if you bag a really high 2:1 - or ideally a first - at university, then I’d say you stand a good chance, so focus on that for the time being.

Reply 65

Hi I’m interested in becoming a criminal barrister and was wondering what are pros and some cons. Like how much would u be looking to get paid and I’m in high school so overall researching at this moment. What a levels would you say are also good as I’m considering sociology, politics and media studies.

Reply 66

etohin

14

hi i have a few questions about law i'd like to ask:
1. as far as i know, solicitors tend to get paid more in the beginning of their career than barristers, but barristers earn more further down the line: is this true?
2. i would love to be a barrister, as i've heard many find it more intellectually stimulating and you have more free will, but a) i'm not very good at public speaking, so how would you recommend i improve (?) and b) does the independence make it a more 'risky' career than a solicitor (not guaranteed to get work etc).
3. in regards to being a criminal barrister, i recently began reading 'stories of the law and how it's broken', where the barrister writing talks quite a bit about how disorganised criminal courts are, and how stressful their job was, sometimes getting cases 20 minutes before they had to present their arguments: would you say that this is your experience too?
4. sorry, final question, but what would you say your second favourite area of law is and why?

Reply 67

Mariah23

15

I want to get into law, specifically Family law which deals with divorce, custody, domestic abuse, visitation etc but I’m quite hesitant and really considering my choice of this career as I would want to have time for my family, have the amount of kids, spending time with them and my spouse without it resulting into an ultimatum or me not having time for both. I know becoming a lawyer/solicitor is a big on job but it shouldn’t have to go over family time. Please deepen the knowledge and help my understanding so it’s easier to decide what to do

Reply 68

OP

Original post by Hailey629

Hi I’m interested in becoming a criminal barrister and was wondering what are pros and some cons. Like how much would u be looking to get paid and I’m in high school so overall researching at this moment. What a levels would you say are also good as I’m considering sociology, politics and media studies.

The question of pay for criminal barristers has been addressed in some detail on this thread, so I suggest you take a look there: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?p=92717628&highlight=criminal%20barrister

In terms of your A level choices, my concern would be that they are all quite 'soft'. If you can, I would swap out wither sociology or media studies (or even both) for more 'traditional' essay-writing subjects such as English, History, etc. Foreign languages are also good, as is something like maths or economics (as long as you are doing at least one essay subject). If you absolutely hate the more traditional subjects and you think you will do badly in them, then it is probably better to have really great grades in the three subjects you chose than to have really bad grades in more traditional subjects. But the issue is that your choice of A level subjects has a knock on effect on your realistic university options, which in turn impacts your career options after university.

Reply 69

Yes I know history and English are good but I’m thinking history may be hard as I don’t study it in gcse and English would be quite hard for me as It’s one of my weakness but I have thought about economics and it is offered in one sixth form I’m interested in with politics and everything else.

Reply 70

OP

Lots of good questions here.

1. as far as i know, solicitors tend to get paid more in the beginning of their career than barristers, but barristers earn more further down the line: is this true?
The question of pay depends substantially on your area of practice. For example in crime, the average solicitor and the average barrister will probably be earning roughly the same throughout their careers. However with commercial work for example, junior solicitors and junior barristers may earn roughly the same (with solicitors perhaps earning a little more in their very early years, although don't forget pupillage awards are tax free and salaries are not). But then the earning potential for a top notch commercial senior junior or silk is likely to be a lot more than that of a senior associate or partner at a commercially-focussed firm. So the rule you describe probably holds truer on the commercial side than the criminal side. Having said that, some of the really outstanding criminal silks will earn millions, which is more than any partner at any criminal solicitors' firm in the country.

2. i would love to be a barrister, as i've heard many find it more intellectually stimulating and you have more free will, but a) i'm not very good at public speaking, so how would you recommend i improve (?) and b) does the independence make it a more 'risky' career than a solicitor (not guaranteed to get work etc).
Great that you're considering a career at the bar. There are some barristers who do far more public speaking than others. Some commercial barristers have a largely paper-based practice, and will rarely go to court. Others (family, crime) will be in court almost daily. So if your preference is for less advocacy, there are ways of achieving that. However, three very important caveats. First, advocacy is a key part of being a barrister; it is the main skill that marks you out from solicitors. Second, it only gets better with practice, so to some extent you have to just grasp the nettle (and you might find you enjoy it more once you get over the initial fear). Third, you are really going to struggle to get your foot in the door in the first place unless you can demonstrate experience, and a basic level of competence, in advocacy. I suggest you try some low-risk public speaking exercises (school / university debating club, mooting etc) to dip your toe in the water. If you truly hate it, then you may need to reconsider the bar. On the second part of your question, yes it is certainly a riskier career, both in terms of chances of getting in in the first place, and then being self-employed afterwards. But that's part of the trade off for the benefits you describe.

3. in regards to being a criminal barrister, i recently began reading 'stories of the law and how it's broken', where the barrister writing talks quite a bit about how disorganised criminal courts are, and how stressful their job was, sometimes getting cases 20 minutes before they had to present their arguments: would you say that this is your experience too?
In short, yes it is. There is plenty of chaos, last minute case prep, missing material etc. But for me, that is part of the fun. It's also not always like that. Cases in the Magistrates' Court are generally much worse for that sort of thing (e.g. if you are prosecuting a list, you will be in court all day as the prosecution advocate on anything up to 15 or so different cases, and you might only get the papers through the afternoon before, and half the stuff you need is missing). But in a bigger Crown Court trial, things will generally be much more organised. It's largely a product of the seriousness of the crime involved, and therefore how much police and CPS attention gets paid to it.

4. sorry, final question, but what would you say your second favourite area of law is and why?
For me personally, public law. I love crime, and the jury advocacy that goes with it, but I'm also quite a techy lawyer and I like a good bit of legal argument. There's more opportunities to do that if you can supplement your criminal practice with a bit of High Court public law work, and there's often a crossover with crime anyway.

Reply 71

OP

Original post by Hailey629

Yes I know history and English are good but I’m thinking history may be hard as I don’t study it in gcse and English would be quite hard for me as It’s one of my weakness but I have thought about economics and it is offered in one sixth form I’m interested in with politics and everything else.

I understand. Economics would be a good option if you are keen on it. I should make one thing clear though. To stand any chance of a career as a barrister of any kind, including a criminal barrister, you need to have a really outstanding level of written and spoken English. I'm afraid it's an essential skill in our line of work, and you won't get very far without it. So if taking English at A level would give you the opportunity to improve your written English, then I would suggest you take it. If not, you will need to find some other way of improving. At the moment, based on what I have seen of your writing on here, you would need to do some serious work in this area. I don't want to put you off, or to come across as being too harsh, but that is the reality.

Reply 72

Fluffysweetfries

18

Original post by legalhelp

Hi everyone. I found a lot of useful information on this forum when I started my legal career, so I thought it was time to offer help in return if I can. I know crime is an area many students are interested in, so let me know if you have any questions about it. There are other fantastically qualified and experienced people on this forum, but I have a somewhat unique perspective on things because I have been both a solicitor and a barrister. Some initial caveats. I would prefer for obvious reasons not to say where I currently work or where I have worked, or to talk about how much I am paid! But I know pay in crime is an area many will have questions about, so I can answer in general terms. It has also been a while since I did either of the professional courses, so my knowledge on that front is probably quite out of date. But again, I can offer general help, and talk about the more day-to-day aspects of criminal work. I hope this is a useful thread for anyone considering a career in criminal law. It’s not for everyone, but personally I think it’s the best job in the world.

Hi, i know that this might be a bit late ti ask but what were your qualifications to become a criminal lawyer? How did you find your job (e.g through wesbites...)? Also what is the most interesting case you've come across? :smile:

Reply 73

OP

Original post by Fluffysweetfries

Hi, i know that this might be a bit late ti ask but what were your qualifications to become a criminal lawyer? How did you find your job (e.g through wesbites...)? Also what is the most interesting case you've come across? :smile:

Hi there. Not too late! I did a non-law subject at university, then the law conversion course and the LPC after university. I was then a solicitor for a few years. I took the Bar Transfer Test to qualify across to the criminal bar. It was not the most direct route to the criminal bar: that would be law at university, followed by the year-long bar course.

In terms of where to find jobs, it depends whether you want to be a solicitor or a barrister. If you have an idea which of these you want to do, people can give you more guidance on how to go about applying for roles.

To your last question: there have been plenty, but sadly I can't really give you any of the juicy details!

Reply 74

username4986690

19

How well do you think HMCTS have handled their Covid secureness preparations and measures?

How do you think the Government could decrease the ever increasing case backlog?

Reply 75

OP

Original post by DiddyDec

How well do you think HMCTS have handled their Covid secureness preparations and measures?

How do you think the Government could decrease the ever increasing case backlog?

Both excellent questions, which I promise to come back and address in full later. In the meantime, you might like to read the High Court decision in DPP v Woolwich, a recent JR which addressed at length the steps taken by HMCTS in response to Covid-19. I'd be interested to know what you think of the original Crown Court judge's reasons for not extending the defendant's custody time limit, and whether the High Court's reversal of that decision was sensible.

Reply 76

Fluffysweetfries

18

Original post by legalhelp

Hi there. Not too late! I did a non-law subject at university, then the law conversion course and the LPC after university. I was then a solicitor for a few years. I took the Bar Transfer Test to qualify across to the criminal bar. It was not the most direct route to the criminal bar: that would be law at university, followed by the year-long bar course.

In terms of where to find jobs, it depends whether you want to be a solicitor or a barrister. If you have an idea which of these you want to do, people can give you more guidance on how to go about applying for roles.

To your last question: there have been plenty, but sadly I can't really give you any of the juicy details!

Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate it ! I hope everything is going well for you :smile:

also i understand the confidentiality dont worry haha

Reply 77

Hi thanks for your help I do write differently on here though from my actual writing in English and exams. I’m on a grade 3-4 at the moment but have started tutoring and have been improving and I take a lot of time to improve and work hard I will consider but would it be English language or literature that would be better or is the a level as one? As I know English is very important and am considering it. How is the a level for English what types of things do you do?

Reply 78

What were the a levels you done? I would definitely like to do politics and maybe sociology with English maybe as I wanted to do media studies as I’m very good and enjoy it so I have something fun along with the new topics but I will consider English.

Reply 79