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Original post by legalhelp
Both excellent questions, which I promise to come back and address in full later. In the meantime, you might like to read the High Court decision in DPP v Woolwich, a recent JR which addressed at length the steps taken by HMCTS in response to Covid-19. I'd be interested to know what you think of the original Crown Court judge's reasons for not extending the defendant's custody time limit, and whether the High Court's reversal of that decision was sensible.

I didn't expect an answer straight away, they are tricky questions.

I must preface this that I don't have any legal qualifications nor have I ever studied law.
As it happens though I was aware of the original judgement since it was one of those rare occasions that a judge very publicly shames the HMCTS and MoJ. It was very unjudgelike for lack of a better word and seemed to go well outside of their remit.

I would say that High Court judgment is reasonable given the challenges faced by HMCTS. However the case backlog was not being reduced before the pandemic and their insistence this should be deemed the acceptable measure doesn't seem right to me. They were failing to address the problem before so realistically they should be aiming to reduce the backlog to acceptable levels not pre-Covid levels.
Reply 81
Original post by legalhelp
Lots of good questions here.

1. as far as i know, solicitors tend to get paid more in the beginning of their career than barristers, but barristers earn more further down the line: is this true?
The question of pay depends substantially on your area of practice. For example in crime, the average solicitor and the average barrister will probably be earning roughly the same throughout their careers. However with commercial work for example, junior solicitors and junior barristers may earn roughly the same (with solicitors perhaps earning a little more in their very early years, although don't forget pupillage awards are tax free and salaries are not). But then the earning potential for a top notch commercial senior junior or silk is likely to be a lot more than that of a senior associate or partner at a commercially-focussed firm. So the rule you describe probably holds truer on the commercial side than the criminal side. Having said that, some of the really outstanding criminal silks will earn millions, which is more than any partner at any criminal solicitors' firm in the country.

2. i would love to be a barrister, as i've heard many find it more intellectually stimulating and you have more free will, but a) i'm not very good at public speaking, so how would you recommend i improve (?) and b) does the independence make it a more 'risky' career than a solicitor (not guaranteed to get work etc).
Great that you're considering a career at the bar. There are some barristers who do far more public speaking than others. Some commercial barristers have a largely paper-based practice, and will rarely go to court. Others (family, crime) will be in court almost daily. So if your preference is for less advocacy, there are ways of achieving that. However, three very important caveats. First, advocacy is a key part of being a barrister; it is the main skill that marks you out from solicitors. Second, it only gets better with practice, so to some extent you have to just grasp the nettle (and you might find you enjoy it more once you get over the initial fear). Third, you are really going to struggle to get your foot in the door in the first place unless you can demonstrate experience, and a basic level of competence, in advocacy. I suggest you try some low-risk public speaking exercises (school / university debating club, mooting etc) to dip your toe in the water. If you truly hate it, then you may need to reconsider the bar. On the second part of your question, yes it is certainly a riskier career, both in terms of chances of getting in in the first place, and then being self-employed afterwards. But that's part of the trade off for the benefits you describe.

3. in regards to being a criminal barrister, i recently began reading 'stories of the law and how it's broken', where the barrister writing talks quite a bit about how disorganised criminal courts are, and how stressful their job was, sometimes getting cases 20 minutes before they had to present their arguments: would you say that this is your experience too?
In short, yes it is. There is plenty of chaos, last minute case prep, missing material etc. But for me, that is part of the fun. It's also not always like that. Cases in the Magistrates' Court are generally much worse for that sort of thing (e.g. if you are prosecuting a list, you will be in court all day as the prosecution advocate on anything up to 15 or so different cases, and you might only get the papers through the afternoon before, and half the stuff you need is missing). But in a bigger Crown Court trial, things will generally be much more organised. It's largely a product of the seriousness of the crime involved, and therefore how much police and CPS attention gets paid to it.

4. sorry, final question, but what would you say your second favourite area of law is and why?
For me personally, public law. I love crime, and the jury advocacy that goes with it, but I'm also quite a techy lawyer and I like a good bit of legal argument. There's more opportunities to do that if you can supplement your criminal practice with a bit of High Court public law work, and there's often a crossover with crime anyway.

thank you for taking the time to respond! this was really helpful!
Original post by etohin
hi i have a few questions about law i'd like to ask:
1. as far as i know, solicitors tend to get paid more in the beginning of their career than barristers, but barristers earn more further down the line: is this true?

Only jumping in here because my experience is different to the answer that's been given by @legalhelp. Whilst there will always be exceptions and variations with a question like this, generally speaking I would expect a barrister to earn more than a solicitor in an equivalent practice area, with an equivalent level of experience and in a broadly similar position (i.e. broad equivalence in nature and quality of set versus firm). In fact, I would expect the gross earnings of a barrister to be quite notably higher than the gross salary for a solicitor. The point to remember there is that a barrister will pay their own expenses and will also not gain standard employment benefits like a pension, which will also come out of their gross earnings. So the gap in practice will be less than the gross figures would indicate, but even taking that it consideration I would still expect a recognisable gap between the two, with barristers earning more than solicitors. As I say, though, there are exceptions, and it is always worth noting that different barristers at a similar level of call in the same practice area can earn vastly different amounts to each other, more so than solicitors in the round. That's not to say that solicitors won't earn different amounts depending on their individual situations, because they obviously will, but with all the variables that can affect a self employed practice I would think that there will often be far more variation with barristers. So whilst I do think it's right to say that barristers will generally earn more than equivalent solicitors, the detail behind that is relevant, as are a host of other factors that you should consider when deciding whether or not the Bar is right for you. In fact it often won't come down to money, because the two roles are very different. I've met very few people who are indifferent as to which they do. Most solicitors don't want to be barristers, and vice versa.
Reply 83
Original post by Crazy Jamie
Only jumping in here because my experience is different to the answer that's been given by @legalhelp. Whilst there will always be exceptions and variations with a question like this, generally speaking I would expect a barrister to earn more than a solicitor in an equivalent practice area, with an equivalent level of experience and in a broadly similar position (i.e. broad equivalence in nature and quality of set versus firm). In fact, I would expect the gross earnings of a barrister to be quite notably higher than the gross salary for a solicitor. The point to remember there is that a barrister will pay their own expenses and will also not gain standard employment benefits like a pension, which will also come out of their gross earnings. So the gap in practice will be less than the gross figures would indicate, but even taking that it consideration I would still expect a recognisable gap between the two, with barristers earning more than solicitors. As I say, though, there are exceptions, and it is always worth noting that different barristers at a similar level of call in the same practice area can earn vastly different amounts to each other, more so than solicitors in the round. That's not to say that solicitors won't earn different amounts depending on their individual situations, because they obviously will, but with all the variables that can affect a self employed practice I would think that there will often be far more variation with barristers. So whilst I do think it's right to say that barristers will generally earn more than equivalent solicitors, the detail behind that is relevant, as are a host of other factors that you should consider when deciding whether or not the Bar is right for you. In fact it often won't come down to money, because the two roles are very different. I've met very few people who are indifferent as to which they do. Most solicitors don't want to be barristers, and vice versa.

thank you!
Reply 84
Original post by Yus745
Im 16 due to pick a levels am wanting to go into law 70/30 engineering i want to pick law criminology and maths and then if my mind changes will switch criminology for physics,or shud i take maths physics and law,im certain i want to go into law

Hi. Hope OP doesn't mind me hijacking the thread for a second! However, I have some insight that might be helpful for you.

I studied Law, Psychology and Sociology at A Level. At the time, I intended on studying Psychology at University. I really enjoyed my Law A Level, and decided I wanted to do a Law degree instead - it taught me a lot of basic principles which I have carried forward into my degree. With that said, I wouldn't say that it gave me a substantial advantage over my peers. In fact, if I could rewind time and choose my A Levels again, I wouldn't choose it. In A Level Law you will likely study a (very) small portion of criminal law, and maybe tort, whereas in your degree you will study areas of law which you never will have considered. So content wise, you won't be put at an advantage in your LLB. In my opinion, you are better off choosing A Levels which will teach you transferrable skills which will be helpful when studying Law during your degree. English is a great one to help with structuring essays, analysis, and it will help you get to grips with reading long texts.
Original post by legalhelp
Hi everyone. I found a lot of useful information on this forum when I started my legal career, so I thought it was time to offer help in return if I can. I know crime is an area many students are interested in, so let me know if you have any questions about it. There are other fantastically qualified and experienced people on this forum, but I have a somewhat unique perspective on things because I have been both a solicitor and a barrister. Some initial caveats. I would prefer for obvious reasons not to say where I currently work or where I have worked, or to talk about how much I am paid! But I know pay in crime is an area many will have questions about, so I can answer in general terms. It has also been a while since I did either of the professional courses, so my knowledge on that front is probably quite out of date. But again, I can offer general help, and talk about the more day-to-day aspects of criminal work. I hope this is a useful thread for anyone considering a career in criminal law. It’s not for everyone, but personally I think it’s the best job in the world.

I’m not sure if this has been answered before but how did you get into an undergraduate law degree/university? To be more specific, what sort of things did you write about in your personal statement?
Hello! Do you reckon A Level History, Politics and Psychology have applicable skills for Law at degree level? I've picked these for September and still have time to change, I do have interest in each of these subjects and don't know what else I need to consider other than English. Thanks in advance for your reply.
Original post by jen17105
Hello! Do you reckon A Level History, Politics and Psychology have applicable skills for Law at degree level? I've picked these for September and still have time to change, I do have interest in each of these subjects and don't know what else I need to consider other than English. Thanks in advance for your reply.

Yes, those will be fine. You've got your essay subject in History, Politics is always relevant for lawyers, and Psychology as your third is perfectly fine.
Original post by Crazy Jamie
Yes, those will be fine. You've got your essay subject in History, Politics is always relevant for lawyers, and Psychology as your third is perfectly fine.
this is reassuring :smile:
Original post by legalhelp
Hi everyone. I found a lot of useful information on this forum when I started my legal career, so I thought it was time to offer help in return if I can. I know crime is an area many students are interested in, so let me know if you have any questions about it. There are other fantastically qualified and experienced people on this forum, but I have a somewhat unique perspective on things because I have been both a solicitor and a barrister. Some initial caveats. I would prefer for obvious reasons not to say where I currently work or where I have worked, or to talk about how much I am paid! But I know pay in crime is an area many will have questions about, so I can answer in general terms. It has also been a while since I did either of the professional courses, so my knowledge on that front is probably quite out of date. But again, I can offer general help, and talk about the more day-to-day aspects of criminal work. I hope this is a useful thread for anyone considering a career in criminal law. It’s not for everyone, but personally I think it’s the best job in the world.
Hello,

I realise I am a few years late to this post lol! But I am new to the forum and to law.

I am currently studying a masters of law conversion course along with the prep for the SQE1 exam.

I’m only a few months into my course, but I really love criminal law and would currently love to join the CPS.

I had a few questions, if there is a chance you get a notification I would love to gain some insight.

Do all CPS solicitors go to court and prosecute, or is it like a team working together, and then one person goes to court?

Are the opportunities to join the CPS few and far between? Do you have any tips for what they would look for in an interview?

Can you work for the CPS in any U.K. city?

You mentioned that you both defend and prosecute, do all defence lawyers do this? I am keen to work on the prosecution side, though I’m not sure how I would cope on the defence for particularly triggering cases.


Thank you!

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