Just some thoughts about pride in your identity

Its interesting that some identifies are fine to be proud of yet others will have you branded as a bigot..
If you go for black or gay pride, as but two examples, you're hailed as a hero and receive respect (**** knows why but still) yet if you say youre proud of your white identity youre compared to hitler and if youre proud of your straight identity youre apparently a raging homophobe.

To be honest all of these traits seem moronic to be 'proud' of. I have no idea why you'd be proud of what type of genitals youre attracted to or what shade of skin tone you have, as opposed to your national identity which is rather different. black/white/asian/gay/straight/trans pride are all ridiculous in my book and certainly deserve no respect simply by dint of existing.

The one thing thats amusing though is the grotesque hypocrisy and double standards in it, as i noted earlier, in itself it is quite clearly racism ands bigorty of the most basic order when someone who celebrates black pride gets uppity on someone talking about their white pride (or any other type of pride in this sector for that matter) but what can you do? The types who believe these things are actually worth respect are either racists (on both sides) or bigots in general, the activists from both camps for these all being decidedly unpleasant in general with their propensity to shove people into boxes and stack them ion a heirarchy of respectability (a trans, black, gender questioning, disabled lesbian) being the golden prize with the straight white man being the low man on the totem pole, as it were. At least as far as the left activists go, the ranking tends to reverse when you sapeak to the other lot.

In short theyre all twits who need to get a sense of perspective on whats important in life and to people at large, which none of this is. These being quirks of fate and nothing more. Theres nothing to be proud of and certainly nothing to respect about them, in of themselves. But the double standards do somewhat grate whenever this topic is brought up.

Interesting point about being proud to be white. I suppose it boils down to the question of what does it mean to be white. Historically as a white person, you have power and influence. You generally ruled over everyone else and if not, indirectly you benefitted from those who did.

Being proud to be black is about fighting that oppression and standing up for yourself despite all that is thrown at you.

So back to the question - what would being white in a non-racist context actually entail?

Interesting point about being proud to be white. I suppose it boils down to the question of what does it mean to be white. Historically as a white person, you have power and influence. You generally ruled over everyone else and if not, indirectly you benefitted from those who did.

Being proud to be black is about fighting that oppression and standing up for yourself despite all that is thrown at you.

So back to the question - what would being white in a non-racist context actually entail?

Thasts the qwuestion, it measning different things to different people. Personally i imagine it equates more to white civilisation i.e. european history and all the benefits it has brought, maybe the empire(s) as well, depending on your own views, but still. Whenever someone seems to think of white pride they immediately jump to that person holding the paralel view that whites are supreme above all others. in ones view each one can exist without necessarily having the other bolted on to it.

Personally, aside from the general views of pride in something that you gained by fate i mentioned earlier, i see no issue in being proud of ones heritage in of itself. If it offends others because their ancestors happened to suffer at the hands of europeans many years ago, well, meh.. who cares. If theyre going to hold the view of black pride (or any other type) theyre in no position to question someone else for holding similar views.

Equally, on your comment about black pride, whilst some undoubtedly hold thatr view there are plenty who hold it for the reasons i noted above for whites, as well as black supremsists. These ones decidedly not being proud of simply shaking off colonial control but thinking, for some odd reason, theyre a master race of some form being as unpleasant as neo-nazis and their white supremist views.

In general though, i fail to see any reason to be ashamed of our history, the empire existed and brought great good to the world, as well as evil, and im certainly not going to apologise for the actions of the long dead simply because some people today dont like it (strange considering it never effected them, their being born long after empire died. If they wish to take out their frustrations on someone they should look to their corrupt leaders. Be it a dictator in Chad or the dubious politcians in Malaysia etc.

Its an interesting topic, shame its so inherently toxic because of certain peoples views on it.

I agree. I think you have clarified my views on what pride in characteristics means. If you think about it, being black or gay, or to an extent, a woman (more in other cultures) and so on are all sections of society who have been repressed; who have been told that how they are is not acceptable and if they are to be accepted, they must conform. So black people were made into slaves or second class citizens, gay people were criminalised and women have been generally denied equal rights since the beginning of time. Being proud of who you are is a way of saying "I will not be down trodden. I will not be repressed. I am who I am and I am proud of that."

White men in particular as a group have never been repressed or downtrodden simply for being white men. It therefore doesn't really make sense to say you are a proud white man unless you are proud of the fact that you feel superior to others purely because you are white.

Does that make sense?

I agree. I think you have clarified my views on what pride in characteristics means. If you think about it, being black or gay, or to an extent, a woman (more in other cultures) and so on are all sections of society who have been repressed; who have been told that how they are is not acceptable and if they are to be accepted, they must conform. So black people were made into slaves or second class citizens, gay people were criminalised and women have been generally denied equal rights since the beginning of time. Being proud of who you are is a way of saying "I will not be down trodden. I will not be repressed. I am who I am and I am proud of that."

White men in particular as a group have never been repressed or downtrodden simply for being white men. It therefore doesn't really make sense to say you are a proud white man unless you are proud of the fact that you feel superior to others purely because you are white.

Does that make sense?

No.

Firstly white people had their struggles too, yes we conquered the world but we had to bloody fight and suffer for it and we have our own rich and amazing history and culture

It does but that presupposes to be proud of your identity/charteristics etc. can only be doneby those who are notionaly marginalised or have been at some point in the past. Something i would disagree with. Outside of my previous comments in general on the matter, i see nothing wrong with a white, straight man being able to be proud of whatever in the same vein as someone from one of those groups is. After all, its not there fault women or ethnic minorities have been oppressed historically and they shouldnt be held accountable for that.
In the same way a black person can be proud of their notional cultural accomplishments (which seems to be where the black pride stems from as opposed to any historical links to slavery, except african americans), there is every reason a white person should be proud of their peoples cultural and social achievements in the same way and they shouldnt simply be branded a racist for that - unless we're to also say that black/asian etc. are racist for holding these views.

Then again, as i said, the whole thing is stupid given these people are being proud of accomplishments they have nothing to do with, both black and white.

Of course. But we didn't struggle simply because we were white did we?

We struggled because in our quest (and I am speaking as an Englishman) to conquer the world, we occasionally encountered a bit of resistance from the locals

we were trying to subvert as shown in your picture.

No but so what? Why do you have to have been a victim in order to qualify for feeling pride? And whilst we have never been discriminated for being white per say we have been discriminated against by Romans, Vikings and the Barbary States at points in history.

Of course. And when we were persecuted by the Romans, no doubt we felt fiercely proud to be Britons.

My point which was remarked on above, is that saying you are proud to be white in the current day context is generally associated with white supremacy and is not a particularly positive characteristic to have.

Feel free to explain to me why being proud of being white is a good thing because personally I don't think it is.

Well I don't. I'm glad the Romans did conquer and civilise us otherwise we'd still be a bunch of swamp dwelling heathen savages.

"White supremacy" is basically just a left wing smear against white people. The entire history of humanity is about one group oppressing another. Those who didn't just sucked at it. Again whites are just being penalised for being better players.

Like I said I'm not proud purely for being born Caucasian. I think that's wrong too (not because it's "racist" but because it's idolatry). I'm proud that as a European, we have a amazing history and heritage that our ancestors helped build and I reject anyone that tries to take that away because it upsets some people. Boohoo.