Why do schools start so early?

of course you don't get a choice. your council chooses, even if it's miles and miles away.
some areas literally don't have good schools.
and in uni, a lot of people can't afford halls because of how they give loans on your parents income. none of my friends who live out can cover their rent and food with the loans alone, they have to work stupid hours at work just to survive. a guy on my course dropped out this year because he just couldn't do the work hours and uni

In that case then that's fair enough.



Nah if you live in a rural area you might legitimately have no choice or you might not be able to afford the halls.



This is facts, some pupils legitimately have no choice but to spend and hour traveling to and from school (I know that I had no choice pretty much, so I grew a bone and did it unfortunately). Wouldn't be fair to say that everyone has a choice.

Then you appeal like we had to - there is a recommended journey time which LAs have to bear in mind.

The reason people don't get in is because they refuse to name their catchment school or don't understand how equal preference works. I have to explain it every year on our Open Evening - if you don't live nearby you won't get in.

of course you don't get a choice. your council chooses, even if it's miles and miles away.
some areas literally don't have good schools.

Then you appeal like we had to - there is a recommended journey time which LAs have to bear in mind.

The reason people don't get in is because they refuse to name their catchment school or don't understand how equal preference works. I have to explain it every year on our Open Evening - if you don't live nearby you won't get in.

You do get a choice, you list your preferences and the LA allocates in the order you put them. I have to explain the system to parents every year as people are unrealistic putting school that are 20 miles away or not reading the Admission rules. Over 90% of schools are good or better - name an area with no good school within half an hour?
You do know your parents are meant to top up your loan don't you just like we did for our son.

So how would you get stroppy teenage children to go to school off their own backs without parental support, a lot of whom really couldn’t care less about going in the first place?

I was saying the exact opposite of saying everyone has a choice. When you’re in year 6 your parents get sent a form, they fill it out expressing a preference for secondary schools, it was 3 preferences when I was at school, it probably still is. The form gets sent to your local council who issues all the secondary school places. Some children will not get into their closest school, despite it being stated as the most preferred on the form. Some children will not get into any of the preferences and will be allocated a different school entirely, which could be a much longer way away. There are hundreds of news articles about this.

The allocations are made on many factors, which can be found on council websites.

Appeals do not work a lot of the time, there are so many news articles about this online. If a school is oversubscribed then it’s oversubscribed. There are legal limits to how many students can be in a class. When I was at school it was 30, you could have 31 if you really pushed it and had to get permission from the council.

As an example if 50 people appeal the council may accept one or 2. The other 48 will be going somewhere else despite the appeals.

If you win an appeal the school has to give you a place - not the LA as the appeal panel are independent - I helped a friend win an appeal and there were 33 in the class.

Parents don't read the Admissions rules - in my school parents apply from over 20 miles away - well outside catchment. It's a wasted choice ...

my council wouldn't bother listening to an appeal. you get what you get, if you don't like it, tough.

You do get a choice, you list your preferences and the LA allocates in the order you put them. I have to explain the system to parents every year as people are unrealistic putting school that are 20 miles away or not reading the Admission rules. Over 90% of schools are good or better - name an area with no good school within half an hour?
You do know your parents are meant to top up your loan don't you just like we did for our son.

There is a legal right to an appeal so you are wrong. The appeal is before an Independent panel which does not have to take the side of the LA. The school presents its case and so does the parent, then the panel [not the LA] decide.

https://www.gov.uk/schools-admissions/appealing-a-schools-decision

And when you don’t win the appeal, I suppose a magic wand comes out and makes you win the appeal anyway?

Lots of people aren't realistic with their choices and don't put schools they are likely to get a place at. How many actually read the Admission rules? We get questions on here every year about sixth form entry when the poster doesn't understand how this works.

They do not have to agree, they can, they often will. There are legal requirements of maximum class sizes. The independent panel cannot change the rules of maths. 31 in a class at a push, at most 5 or 6 classes in a year. If more than 6 people appeal then by the laws of maths their appeals will fail. You do not press an appeal button and magically get in.

I won an appeal so the class was 33 - it happens. It's only infant classes that are legally set at 30 ... others aren't.

In the school where I teach, we were full and then allocated 18 more students and had to form another class.

I won an appeal so the class was 33 - it happens. It's only infant classes that are legally set at 30 ... others aren't.

In the school where I teach, we were full and then allocated 18 more students and had to form another class.

“It happened for me so it happens to everyone”. There will always be some extremely rare exception that basically never happens and will not happen again for many, many years, if at all. Your experience is not reflective of the whole country.

In terms of forming another class, especially these days, the budget isn’t there. Schools are already paying out of their own pockets for teachers’ pay rises and aren’t getting government support. They really can’t afford another teacher for another class. Plus the logistics of the physical school building of there not being enough room for another class, inevitable timetabling issues, etc. it’s not very realistic.

“It happened for me so it happens to everyone”. There will always be some extremely rare exception that basically never happens and will not happen again for many, many years, if at all. Your experience is not reflective of the whole country’s secondary school applications.

In terms of forming another class, especially these days, the budget isn’t there. Schools are already paying out of their own pockets for teachers’ pay rises and aren’t getting financial government support for this. They really can’t afford another teacher for another class the majority of the time. Plus the logistics of the physical school building of there not being enough room for another class, inevitable timetabling issues, etc. It’s not very realistic.