The Student Room Group

Why are you concerned about migration?

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I am not concerned about immigration. It is beneficial to the economy and always has been. In an increasingly globalised world it is inevitable, plus it is necessary in the West to ease the pressures of an aging population.

What I am concerned about is the lack of investment into public services and the unwillingness to improve infrastructure. These would be a problem either with or without immigration. The Conservatives have failed to do either in the last 13 years, either due to incompetence or lack of will, yet use immigration as a scapegoat for our problems (despite also tripling net migration, funny that).
I don’t care about immigration, maybe illegal immigration at a push.

I’m more concerned about people being able to integrate into society, so people being able to speak English (as in have the ability to do it when necessary or learn it) when they come here bare minimum (I apply this to any country that you choose to live in or immigrate to, learn (one of) the language of that country rather than relying on others to interpret stuff for you).
Reply 22
Original post by Talkative Toad
I don’t care about immigration, maybe illegal immigration at a push.

I’m more concerned about people being able to integrate into society, so people being able to speak English (as in have the ability to do it when necessary or learn it) when they come here bare minimum (I apply this to any country that you choose to live in or immigrate to, learn (one of) the language of that country rather than relying on others to interpret stuff for you).

True. But equally it is a fair question to ask if the resident population make it easy for migrants to integrate. I think it fair to say that the various British expat communities around the world don't integrate with the locals either in language or in culture. And even within British society we have communities that don't integrate. You don't see Boris down the local working man's club, or Jewish people popping into their local church to say hi. Nor do you see Liverpool fans drinking in Manchester Utd pubs.

But equally we do have relative equal opportunity for success as shown by our former Home Secretary and current Prime Minister. That ultimately is the measure of integration. That you see people of all background in being able to work and access our country's systems.
Original post by hotpud
True. But equally it is a fair question to ask if the resident population make it easy for migrants to integrate. I think it fair to say that the various British expat communities around the world don't integrate with the locals either in language or in culture. And even within British society we have communities that don't integrate. You don't see Boris down the local working man's club, or Jewish people popping into their local church to say hi. Nor do you see Liverpool fans drinking in Manchester Utd pubs.

But equally we do have relative equal opportunity for success as shown by our former Home Secretary and current Prime Minister. That ultimately is the measure of integration. That you see people of all background in being able to work and access our country's systems.


That’s why I said this this applies to all countries (not just the UK). If you choose to move to another country e.g British immigrant (I dislike the term expat for reasons that I won’t get into) as your example, then you should learn the language of that country.

So I were to want to live in Spain, I should learn Spanish, if someone were to come to the UK and choose to live here they should learn English etc rather than expecting others to speak their native language or expecting someone to have to act as an interpreter for them.

Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time but I believe that at a bare minimum, if you choose to move to country X then you should learn to speak the language of that country (or be able to speak it) be it Spain, UK, France, China, UAE, Italy etc. That’s mainly what I mean by integration in this context. I don’t care about your religion, gender, sexuality, race etc and whether that “clashes” with the country’s “norms” or not, just learn the language of the country you move to and be maybe aware of some of the basic customs, that’s it. That’s the only thing that “concerns” me about immigration, (regardless of whether that’s legal immigration or illegal immigration) other than that, I don’t care about it, maybe I care about illegal immigration to some extent, but that’s really pushing it.

Edit: But I can definitely agree with the second sentence (I’ve heard stories of people going to places like France or Quebec and the locals simply weren’t having it when the person tries to speak in French and makes mistakes when speaking or their accent isn’t “good” enough).
(edited 3 months ago)
Reply 24
'Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time'.

This is actually one my pet gripes when it comes to immigrants. Frankly, it is extremely rude to speak in a foreign language in public. You would not come into home and conduct a conversation in a foreign langauge, it should not occur on the streets.

Likewise, children being brought up having English as a 'second' language is very concerning. It suggests that the parents are not encouraging their children to view the UK as their homeland.

Connecting to point two is duel citizenship which i would not tolerate for second generation migrants (i.e. children born here). In our increasingly fractured world, their loyalty as they grow should be to the British state only.
Original post by Rakas21
'Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time'.

This is actually one my pet gripes when it comes to immigrants. Frankly, it is extremely rude to speak in a foreign language in public. You would not come into home and conduct a conversation in a foreign langauge, it should not occur on the streets.

Likewise, children being brought up having English as a 'second' language is very concerning. It suggests that the parents are not encouraging their children to view the UK as their homeland.

Connecting to point two is duel citizenship which i would not tolerate for second generation migrants (i.e. children born here). In our increasingly fractured world, their loyalty as they grow should be to the British state only.


It is only considered rude to speak a foreign language in public in the minds of xenophobic little Englanders.

Again, if hearing a foreign language in public offends you so much, why do you support a political party that has a proven track record of being pro-immigration? Are you really so pleased with the economic stagnation and high taxes the economically illiterate Conservatives have inflicted on our country that you will overlook that?
Reply 26
Original post by Rakas21
'Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time'.

This is actually one my pet gripes when it comes to immigrants. Frankly, it is extremely rude to speak in a foreign language in public. You would not come into home and conduct a conversation in a foreign langauge, it should not occur on the streets.

Likewise, children being brought up having English as a 'second' language is very concerning. It suggests that the parents are not encouraging their children to view the UK as their homeland.

Connecting to point two is duel citizenship which i would not tolerate for second generation migrants (i.e. children born here). In our increasingly fractured world, their loyalty as they grow should be to the British state only.

I think the idea that it's rude to speak a foreign language in public might be a fairly niche belief that you hold rather than anything that's commonly accepted. We live in an international world where people travel and relocate for all sorts of reasons - restricting travel only to those who are highly fluent in a countries language has, I think, much more disadvantages than advantages.

People emigrate/relocate etc... for all sorts of time periods and purposes. If a family has a long history of residence in another country (lets say France), but moved to the UK reasonably recently and may well move back to France in the future, then it's perfectly reasonably for English to be the second language spoken at home and/or to feel deeper cultural and family ties to France.

We don't require any UK resident, whether natively born or otherwise to swear loyalty to the British state, why would we need to? (We have the police and the criminal courts to tackle those causing harm to others, whether British or otherwise) What does "loyalty" mean in practical terms here?
Original post by Rakas21
'Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time'.

This is actually one my pet gripes when it comes to immigrants. Frankly, it is extremely rude to speak in a foreign language in public. You would not come into home and conduct a conversation in a foreign langauge, it should not occur on the streets.

Likewise, children being brought up having English as a 'second' language is very concerning. It suggests that the parents are not encouraging their children to view the UK as their homeland.

Connecting to point two is duel citizenship which i would not tolerate for second generation migrants (i.e. children born here). In our increasingly fractured world, their loyalty as they grow should be to the British state only.

Well I’m not going to stop speaking French in public, sorry (unless I need or want to switch back to English for whatever reason) and I do it as home as well despite us both knowing English :smile:. I’ll flex that bilingual strength and use it to my advantage 💪🏾, call it bilingual language acquisition.

I personally couldn’t care less about me or others speaking a foreign language in public so long as we don’t expect strangers to be able to understand said foreign language and that we aren’t speaking loudly (no one should be speaking loudly in public in any language regardless unless it’s appropriate to do so e.g in a school as a teacher or in a protest or as a police officer etc). That’s where I have an issue, going to other countries and expecting people to speak your language as opposed to you making the effort to learn the language of country you’ve chosen to move to, that I find to be rude. And that’s my one “concern” about all forms of immigration, other than that I don’t care about immigration or it’s numbers, bigger issues to worry about in our society as others have pointed out.

Nah I’ll take EU citizenship over British one any day of the week (I Ideally want both but if that can’t happen then that’s fine, I’ll stick to what I currently have).

Original post by Gazpacho.
It is only considered rude to speak a foreign language in public in the minds of xenophobic little Englanders.

Again, if hearing a foreign language in public offends you so much, why do you support a political party that has a proven track record of being pro-immigration? Are you really so pleased with the economic stagnation and high taxes the economically illiterate Conservatives have inflicted on our country that you will overlook that?


Agreed.

We will reduce immigration, Brexit will reduce the number of immigrants according to the conservatives but doesn’t look like this has happened yet.
Reply 28
Original post by Talkative Toad
That’s why I said this this applies to all countries (not just the UK). If you choose to move to another country e.g British immigrant (I dislike the term expat for reasons that I won’t get into) as your example, then you should learn the language of that country.

So I were to want to live in Spain, I should learn Spanish, if someone were to come to the UK and choose to live here they should learn English etc rather than expecting others to speak their native language or expecting someone to have to act as an interpreter for them.

Note: I have no issues with hearing people speak a foreign language, I do it all the time but I believe that at a bare minimum, if you choose to move to country X then you should learn to speak the language of that country (or be able to speak it) be it Spain, UK, France, China, UAE, Italy etc. That’s mainly what I mean by integration in this context. I don’t care about your religion, gender, sexuality, race etc and whether that “clashes” with the country’s “norms” or not, just learn the language of the country you move to and be maybe aware of some of the basic customs, that’s it. That’s the only thing that “concerns” me about immigration, (regardless of whether that’s legal immigration or illegal immigration) other than that, I don’t care about it, maybe I care about illegal immigration to some extent, but that’s really pushing it.

Edit: But I can definitely agree with the second sentence (I’ve heard stories of people going to places like France or Quebec and the locals simply weren’t having it when the person tries to speak in French and makes mistakes when speaking or their accent isn’t “good” enough).

Yep - agree with all of that...

But back in the real world, people want to be with people who are like them, who speak the same language, eat the same food and share the same culture. This is why there are so many Chinese food shops around British universities now and why we have a China Town and Curry Mile in Manchester. What people "should" do is not the same as what they actually do. And to be honest, if you ended up moving to work in somewhere like central China, I can guarantee that you would gravitate to any Western person who spoke English as your main point of contact simply because Chinese culture and customs are so different from our own.

This is why I never understood Brexit. We are more like our European counterparts than most Americans or anyone else in the world.
Original post by hotpud
Yep - agree with all of that...

But back in the real world, people want to be with people who are like them, who speak the same language, eat the same food and share the same culture. This is why there are so many Chinese food shops around British universities now and why we have a China Town and Curry Mile in Manchester. What people "should" do is not the same as what they actually do. And to be honest, if you ended up moving to work in somewhere like central China, I can guarantee that you would gravitate to any Western person who spoke English as your main point of contact simply because Chinese culture and customs are so different from our own.

This is why I never understood Brexit. We are more like our European counterparts than most Americans or anyone else in the world.


I don’t care if I’m with people of the same culture or not, it’s just about respecting (being aware of) the basic customs and being able to communicate with others when you move to a different country. I wouldn’t move to a certain country if I didn’t want learn the language of that country (unless I genuinely had no choice), same way that you can’t expect someone like myself to speak and understand your native language in the England if said native language isn’t English, you need to be the one making an effort to learn English instead and you can expect the same in return when I visit your native country.

I would gravitate towards western people but I would also learn the language. It would be rude for me to not learn the language (assuming that I want to immigrate there) and expect the locals to have speak to me in English or for me to continuously rely on someone to interpret the language for me (as opposed to me learning Mandarin), that’s the one concern I have with immigration.

I don’t understand Brexit either, we warned about the consequences but it was dismissed as project fear.
Reply 30
Original post by Talkative Toad
I don’t care if I’m with people of the same culture or not, it’s just about respecting (being aware of) the basic customs and being able to communicate with others when you move to a different country. I wouldn’t move to a certain country if I didn’t want learn the language of that country (unless I genuinely had no choice), same way that you can’t expect someone like myself to speak and understand your native language in the England if said native language isn’t English, you need to be the one making an effort to learn English instead and you can expect the same in return when I visit your native country.

I would gravitate towards western people but I would also learn the language. It would be rude for me to not learn the language (assuming that I want to immigrate there) and expect the locals to have speak to me in English or for me to continuously rely on someone to interpret the language for me (as opposed to me learning Mandarin), that’s the one concern I have with immigration.

I don’t understand Brexit either, we warned about the consequences but it was dismissed as project fear.

I agree. I'm the same. But we are a very tiny minority of the human population most of whom react to the world around them based on emotion. And do what they "feel" is right. Expecting others to have the same views as us will never work. Therefore if immigration is to work, a different approach is right and for me, the negative connotations need to stop for a start.
(edited 3 months ago)
Original post by hotpud
I agree. I'm the same. But we are a very tiny minority of the human population most of whom react to the world around them based on emotion. And do what they "feel" is right. Expecting others to have the same views as us will never work. Therefore if immigration is to work, a different approach is right and for me, the negative connotations need to stop for a start.

Maybe but that’s the the only “negative” connotation/concern I have on immigration other than that I don’t care about immigration.

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