Muslims: Do you believe homosexuality should be illegal/criminalized?

@The Epicurean


You went quite far to defend Islam for a Non-Muslim. Seems rare on this site.

So. Do you believe Islam can accept homosexuality?

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To an extent yes.

Problem is, if there are people who are openly gay in an Islamic societu which accepts them, then there's little doubt that they won't face prejudice by others.

But you yourself defendef Sharia some pages ago

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But you yourself defendef Sharia some pages ago

What exactly is Sharia? It depends on the individual you ask. For example, how important is ijma (Muslim consensus) and what authority does it hold? Are we talking of the consensus of the Salaf only, or the consensus of all Muslims over the centuries? Is there room for ijtihad within Sharia law? If someone says they support the Sharia therefore, it is difficult to fathom what concept of the Sharia they support without further clarification.

To an extent yes.

Problem is, if there are people who are openly gay in an Islamic societu which accepts them, then there's little doubt that they won't face prejudice by others.

Noooooo. It's worse than that. If a gay person sneezes or even farts in the same room, chances are you will pick up the airborne contamination and become gay too.

No, everybody has freedom of choice, so if someone desires to be homosexual then that's their choice. In Islam homosexuality is forbidden however, I don't think a fellow human being can judge someone based on their sexual orientation

One of the issues with the Quran is that it is not a chronological story. So if we look at the story of Lut, we find verses that say:


Surah 29:28-29

What this describes here is essentially the role of a highwayman who would prey on travellers. The role of such travellers and traders would have largely been a job undertaken by men, and therefore the victims of any such crimes here would be men. They are ambushing these men (so whatever is happening, it is not consensual) and performing immoral acts such as theft, rape etc...

We also see in Surah 15:71, Lut goes as far as even offering his own daughters. This is because these men are clearly having extra-marital affairs (adultery) which Islam prohibits. Islam however permits a man to marry more than one woman, and so Lut seems to assume that maybe these individuals may not be satisfied by one woman, and so he offers them his daughters. This is his last resort to try and stop these men from committing such evils as adultery. Lut's line of thought is that maybe if they married another woman they might cease from committing adultery.

The verse 7:80, the word l-fāḥishata is used to describe the immortality that is being committed. This comes from the root word "Fahisha" which Abdul Majid Daryabadi in his Tafsir ul Quran says:



It would seem to imply extramarital sex is the issue here. So these are men, who are married and have wives, but are having extramarital sex. Such an interpretation makes sense when one reads the continuous prohibitions against adultery in the Quran. Why is the Quran so vocal on these issues? These teachings that we find about adultery are related to heterosexual relationships. Muhammad, being an orphan himself, knew first hand the problems of being an orphan. Children born out of wedlock or who were the result of adultery, were less likely to have a stable household. Marriage was an institution designed to provide a stable and safe environment for children. Marriage allowed for clear lines of responsibility in the raising of children and ensured that children knew who their parents were and whose duty it was to raise them

It is also worth mentioning that in Surah 24 verse 31, women are told that they should cover themselves (dress moderately), but it lists a number of individuals whom they need not cover themselves from such as their husband, children and "men who lack physical desire". This passing reference is towards those who have no sexual attraction to women, The Quran is therefore acknowledging that homosexuality is not a choice, and for this reason, women need not cover themselves in front of them.

Now there are people who will claim that the verse is actually talking about lutiya, that is sodomy or anal sex. But even if we do take this interpretation, the verse you quote is saying perform anal sex on women instead of men. Does that really solve the problem?

It is also worth mentioning that in Surah An-Nisa verses 22-24, the Quran lists the many individuals who a man may not marry, for example, a man may not marry his mother, his sister, his sister's daughter, among many other individuals. However, among those listed as being prohibited for men to marry, one does not find any mention of those individuals of the same sex being prohibited. These verses don't forbid one from marrying their first cousin. Muslims consider this to be a rather complete list of prohibitions, and thus absence of a prohibition against marrying ones cousin has resulted in first cousin marriage being permitted in Islam.

So even if we did take the verses regarding Lut to be prohibitions against sodomy, sodomy can be performed by heterosexual couples too. But one is quite able to have a heterosexual marriage where sodomy is not practiced. Equally so, one is able to have a same sex marriage where sodomy does not take place. Which would imply that as long as sodomy is not practiced, the Quran has no prohibition against same sex marriage.

Yeah. I think its possible for homosexuals to live under the sharia. Sharia varies obviously from place to place.

For example, compare Turkey to Saudi, or Indonesia to Saudi. Saudi ban's homosexuality, whereas Indonesia doesen't - when Indonesia has a larger muslim population too. But ofcourse, Saudi Arabia are just corrupt & especially as they're wahabi.

Would you want pork and homosexuality banned in Muslim countries ?

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Yh