i'm working class, I hate tories, I'm voting labour

Yeh baby!

David cameron :

This rah here, is a douche. Don't trust him fellow working class people. He is full of **** and will make life for us poor people crap. See how all the business leaders are backing him? It's cos they'll be better off under tories than us common folk - think about it...why else would they back him?

I was listening to lord mandleson on TV yesterday and there is a smart straight talking man: "the money has to come from somewhere" and if that means rise in NI then so be it.

I don't like cameron one bit and think he is elitist scum who's just reaping the rewards of daddy's bank account. Wikipedia Gordon brown and read about how he's been brought up, and if it inspires you as much as it has for me:

VOTE LABOUR! **** THE SLEAZY TORY SCUMBAGS!!!!!
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc

sums up my feels perfectly!

Reply 1

freecom2

2

blue_shift86

He is full of **** and will make life for us poor people crap. See how all the business leaders are backing him? It's cos they'll be better off under tories than us common folk - think about it...why else would they back him?

I was listening to lord mandleson on TV yesterday and there is a smart straight talking man: "the money has to come from somewhere" and if that means rise in NI then so be it.

I don't like cameron one bit and think he is elitist scum who's just reaping the rewards of daddy's bank account. Wikipedia Gordon brown and read about how he's been brought up, and if it inspires you as much as it has for me:

VOTE LABOUR! **** THE SLEAZY TORY SCUMBAGS!!!!!

I'll present some opposing arguments to what you said - just to spark a bit of discussion perhaps? They are all as bad as each other :wink:

Are you saying that life for working class people has become significantly better during Labour's term in office? The inequality gap has gotten wider and wider - and the policies of the Labour government appear to have failed to prevent the gap gradually increasing. *

Of course the money has to come from somewhere - but the increase in NI is just one possible way, as is reducing the vast amounts of wastage in the public sector. Increases in public spending are only useful if they are properly targeted, necessary and are required IMO - if they are uncontrolled and go to the 'wrong' places, creating the 'wrong' jobs, then their effectiveness is decreased massively. These options are just contrasting - the Labour party is offering one way to handle a situation, the Conservative party is offering another way - both probably have their inherent flaws, but both will have their respective backers.

You are voting for someone based on their childhood circumstances, of which neither would've had any control over? As the election is essentially a massive job interview for Brown/Cameron, surely you'd consider your voting on how well they'd do the job, along with their parties, and how well suited they are for the role? That's like interviewing someone for a job and deciding solely based on the fact that you liked the person's background, and it was favourable to yourself.

*this seems to be disputed depending on which source you look at (not a surprise, as it's very politically sensitive issue) but the claim is based on the information available here: http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2010/01/inequality-gap-has-reached-record-levels/

Reply 2

blue_shift86

OP

put it this way freecom. It's down to whether I trust someone from a similar background to myself to a person from a background which i have had a bad experience with whilst at oxford.

On that basis I choose brown because we have this "working class connection" i think you can call it. Yes call me a moron or whatever you like but i'm voting Brown primarily due to his background in this election. I've had just about enough of the toffs both at oxford and UCL looking down upon me and not including me for being working class. They are stuck up sons of bitches and I wish them all a slow painful death with duck houses shoved right up their arses.

Reply 3

CJ99

9

Yeah you say business leaders are supporting him so he must be bad. How does that work?

Reply 4

freecom2

2

blue_shift86

On that basis I choose brown because we have this "working class connection" i think you can call it. Yes call me a moron or whatever you like but i'm voting Brown primarily due to his background in this election. I've had just about enough of the toffs both at oxford and UCL looking down upon me and not including me for being working class. They are stuck up sons of bitches and I wish them all a slow painful death with duck houses shoved right up their arses.

That's fair enough - my post above is merely providing some counter-arguments, rather than trying to sway you to any other party. It's your vote, of course.

In a theoretical situation, if the Conservative party had a full manifesto of policies that were incredibly favourable to your socio-economic situation, and the Labour party had a full manifesto of policies that would be dire to your socio-economic situation, would you still stick to voting Labour purely due to their roots? Don't forget how much the New Labour project differs from the Labour of old as well - the two main parties are so near to the centre that often they have policies that you'd consider the other party to hold dear to their hearts.

Reply 5

The_Red_Wedge

I agree that Cameron's background is a weak reason not to vote for him. Nobody can help their class origin, and frankly who wouldn't go to Oxford given the chance? However, there are several reasons to back Labour, I feel...

The 'Broken Britain' mantra the Tories seem to be spouting is just daft. British society may not be in great shape, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as lawless bandit country. Also, the indicating factors they've been using - rising teenage pregnancy, an increase in violence among young people, increased binge drinking - have all taken place under a socially authoritarian Labour government. How is a Tory one which is MORE authoritarian going to solve the problem, exactly?

Furthermore, since the banking crisis and subsequent downturn was caused in large part by deregulation and a lack of social conscience in business legislation, I fail to see how electing a party that's further right economically than even the neo-liberal Labour will solve the problem.

I'll be voting Labour, but frankly only to keep the Tories out (as if my vote will make a difference in the Tory fortress that is rural Norfolk). What's needed is a leftist party that actually represents working class needs; perhaps a massive defeat would be beneficial for Labour, in pushing them back towards their roots.

Reply 6

MaceyThe

14

blue_shift86

Yeh baby!

This rah here, is a douche. Don't trust him fellow working class people. He is full of **** and will make life for us poor people crap.

Ok, well you're not exactly a great advert for the Labour party, are you?
Anyone that believes this rubbish is falling for the propaganda Labour are peddling.
"The Tories will kill poor people"
"The tories will destroy your children"
"David Cameron is the devil"
etc etc

It's cheap, desperate tactics - nothing surprising about that from Labour.

I love it how they (and you - you're not really "working class" at all are you, just a die-hard Labour fan trying to drum up support,) sneer at Cameron because he's had a good education.

As for "elitist toff," well David Cameron can't help which school he went to, but you judging him on something he had no control over is discrimination and prejudice.

What would you prefer??? A party leader who failed at school and flunked his GCSE's just so "he's got more in touch with the working man."

Get real, if he's a competent leader, then having an excellent education to boot is a GOOD thing.

And as for a Labour activist accusing the Tories of "sleaze" - kettle, pot, black, anyone?

Reply 7

jammythedodger

12

MaceyThe

Ok, well you're not exactly a great advert for the Labour party, are you?
Anyone that believes this rubbish is falling for the propaganda Labour are peddling.
"The Tories will kill poor people"
"The tories will destroy your children"
"David Cameron is the devil"
etc etc

It's cheap, desperate tactics - nothing surprising about that from Labour.

I love it how they (and you - you're not really "working class" at all are you, just a die-hard Labour fan trying to drum up support,) sneer at Cameron because he's had a good education.

As for "elitist toff," well David Cameron can't help which school he went to, but you judging him on something he had no control over is discrimination, and prejudice.

What would you prefer??? A party leader who failed at school and flunked his GCSE's just so "he's got more in touch with the working man."

Get real, if he's a competent leader, then having an excellent education to boot is a GOOD thing.

And as for a Labour activist accusing the Tories of "sleaze" - kettle, pot, black, anyone?

This.

Reply 8

py0alb

3

blue_shift86

whilst at oxford.

.

You're at oxford and you think you're working class? thats hilarious. take a look in the mirror posh boy. I bet you go round saying "I'm one of the proleteriat, don't ya know? Totally working clahss what what"

Did you also take a fascinating gap yah?

Reply 9

The_Red_Wedge

py0alb

You're at oxford and you think you're working class? thats hilarious. take a look in the mirror posh boy. I bet you go round saying "I'm one of the proleteriat, don't ya know? Totally working clahss what what"

Did you also take a fascinating gap yah?

Socio-political fail.

Of course you can go to Oxford and still be working class. Someone who is working class is someone who sells their labour for a wage; that wage isn't necessarily low. How many Oxford graduates do you REALLY think go on to own a means of producation, other than maybe an allotment?

Reply 10

PoliceStory

blue_shift86

put it this way freecom. It's down to whether I trust someone from a similar background to myself to a person from a background which i have had a bad experience with whilst at oxford.

On that basis I choose brown because we have this "working class connection" i think you can call it. Yes call me a moron or whatever you like but i'm voting Brown primarily due to his background in this election. I've had just about enough of the toffs both at oxford and UCL looking down upon me and not including me for being working class. They are stuck up sons of bitches and I wish them all a slow painful death with duck houses shoved right up their arses.

What is Brown's background?

Reply 11

py0alb

3

The_Red_Wedge

Socio-political fail.

Of course you can go to Oxford and still be working class. Someone who is working class is someone who sells their labour for a wage; that wage isn't necessarily low. How many Oxford graduates do you REALLY think go on to own a means of producation, other than maybe an allotment?

Thanks for the 19th century political update. Let us know when you've read the next 100 years of political theory. According to your fatuous definition then everyone in the country is working class, with the possible exception of the queen.

The moment you move out of your parents house then their "class" becomes irrelevant, and your class becomes defined by who you are, what you do, where you live, and how much money you have (or can expect to make). If you go to university, you are instantly no longer "working class" because you are no longer going to have to labour for a living. That's the definition of working class, dude, go look it up.

If you go to one of the elitist institutions, then you're not even lower middle class I'm afraid, you're probably upper middle. I hate to break it to all you wannabee socialists wearing your left wing credentials on your sleeve, but you're no more working class than David Cameron is, and no amount of guardian reading is going to change that.

Reply 12

Nahdrav

1

Labour = Centre/Centre right
Tories = Right/Centre right

Go Lib Dem

Reply 13

Doyle&TheFourFathers

11

blue_shift86

Yeh baby!

David cameron :

This rah here, is a douche. Don't trust him fellow working class people. He is full of **** and will make life for us poor people crap. See how all the business leaders are backing him? It's cos they'll be better off under tories than us common folk - think about it...why else would they back him?

I was listening to lord mandleson on TV yesterday and there is a smart straight talking man: "the money has to come from somewhere" and if that means rise in NI then so be it.

I don't like cameron one bit and think he is elitist scum who's just reaping the rewards of daddy's bank account. Wikipedia Gordon brown and read about how he's been brought up, and if it inspires you as much as it has for me:

VOTE LABOUR! **** THE SLEAZY TORY SCUMBAGS!!!!!

Can I ask you why you think you're working class and what makes you part of a working class?

Reply 14

The_Red_Wedge

py0alb

Thanks for the 19th century political update. Let us know when you've read the next 100 years of political theory. According to your fatuous definition then everyone in the country is working class, with the possible exception of the queen.

The moment you move out of your parents house then their "class" becomes irrelevant, and your class becomes defined by who you are, what you do, where you live, and how much money you have (or can expect to make). If you go to university, you are instantly no longer "working class" because you are no longer going to have to labour for a living. That's the definition of working class, dude, go look it up.

If you go to one of the elitist institutions, then you're not even lower middle class I'm afraid, you're probably upper middle. I hate to break it to all you wannabee socialists wearing your left wing credentials on your sleeve, but you're no more working class than David Cameron is, and no amount of guardian reading is going to change that.

Yeah, not buying it. Of course there are people with different incomes, different educational backgrounds, and different jobs within the spectrum of the working class; just because your job doesn't involve physical hard labour doesn't mean you're any less obliged to work for a subsistence wage. Unless you own a means of production, you have by necessity to sell your labour. Shareholding might have blurred the lines a little, but that's still essentially the case. You can mock left-wing students, or Guardian readers, all you want - social class is defined by your economic role first, and cultural/educational considerations second.

Reply 15

IWantSomeMushu

17

David Cameron wants to eat your babies.

Reply 16

TheKlassicsKid

12

If your so in touch with the proletariat then why did you chose to go to Oxford -one of the most elitist institutions in the country- rather than join your fellow workers in the factories?

And why is it okay for you to support Labor because you feel they will help you but not okay for industry leaders to support the Torys because they feel it will help them?

Reply 17

py0alb

3

The_Red_Wedge

Yeah, not buying it. Of course there are people with different incomes, different educational backgrounds, and different jobs within the spectrum of the working class; just because your job doesn't involve physical hard labour doesn't mean you're any less obliged to work for a subsistence wage. Unless you own a means of production, you have by necessity to sell your labour. Shareholding might have blurred the lines a little, but that's still essentially the case. You can mock left-wing students, or Guardian readers, all you want - social class is defined by your economic role first, and cultural/educational considerations second.

lol. I'm not mocking left wing students or Guardian readers at all. I happen to be both of those things. I'm just aware that it doesn't make me working class, any more than the fact that my dad was a lorry driver. I'm mocking people who convince themselves that they're something they're not because they think it makes them cooler. You know what makes you cool? Having the balls to say, "yeah, I'm middle class".

So how many people in this country "own the means of production" Maybe 10,000 max? So 59,990,000 people are working class? Seriously?

What about kids who went to private school? They don't "own the means of production". Are they working class? How about bankers on a million pounds a year? They're still "selling their labour". Are they working class?

Admit it. your model of class structure went out of date in about 1850.