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Edinburgh Uni will ignore all my gap study in China - angry!
I don't want this to sound like a rant, but I wanted to write this to express my anger at universities, particularly Edinburgh, saying they will ignore my 2 years of gap study in China. Long-ish post.
Basically after finishing college in 2009 (BBB in English Lang., Psychology and History), I went straight to China to study Chinese and live with my wonderful Chinese girlfriend. Many reasons and plans led to this. The plan was to study Mandarin to proficiency and then do an actual degree in China, in Chinese, doing a Bachelor's in Chinese literature, language or foreign policy. Fast forward to now, the plans have changed after a lot of thought, and both my girlfriend and I will be coming to the UK to study instead.
When I return next year I will have about 2 years of experience and study in China. All my study has been towards taking the HSK exam - China's international standardised Mandarin proficiency exam. You may already know that the lower levels of this exam can be taken at various unis in the UK, for example SOAS. My goal was to gain Level 6 (Intermediate C) - this is the level required to take any Arts BA in China at most universities. I started studying officially last September and am already studying at HSK Level 7's approx. level, and I expect to gain this Level 6 or 7 after the next HSK exam this Sunday here in China. After gaining this level, the qualification will go on my UCAS form.
To sum up the HSK, it is for Mandarin what IELTS is for English, etc. Level 6/7 is approximately the third/fourth year level in a Chinese Studies/Language BA course in the UK. I confirmed this by asking SOAS, Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester University. This should give you an idea of how damn hard I've been working over the past year.
To add to this, I will have 2 years of experience in China in general. I live with my lovely girlfriend in a rented apartment in the heart of Xiamen, a small coastal city. I'm in the process of writing various semi-academic essays on Chinese culture and modern society, focusing on the psychological effects of China's lightning development.
...Now to the point. Obviously I wanted to inquire what universities thought of this experience and qualification (the HSK), and how I should go about choosing my course. The first consideration was that my Mandarin level would be too high to join the language modules - that's fine, there may be ways around this. But after emailing Edinburgh Uni recently regarding my study in China, they flatly replied:
"...we only look at exams taken in one sitting and therefore your HSK qualification would not make a difference to the decision making process".
They said that my chances were very slim of being gained entry with BBB grades. Not a word about my 2 years working my arse off in China, gaining a qualification far higher than an A-Level in language, and no consideration of the fact that everything I've done is totally relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Yes, my BBB grades fell short of the mark to me, and BBB offers from Edinburgh are rare, but doing all this in China was also with the intention to give my application a strength boost - this is something most applicants will not have, and is totally relevant. I'd have thought this would count for something more and balance things out regarding my BBB grades. Seriously, I've worked damn hard.
I emailed SOAS among the same lines a while back - their response was not exactly different, however they did have an ABB grade requirement for the course. They basically said "if we ask for ABB grades, that's what we expect", and like Edinburgh, they didn't even put a word in about everything I've done in China. Initially I thought fine if they want to be so anal about it, I wasn't fussed about living in London anyway. But the response from Edinburgh has gotten me angry:
--I understand this is two unis, but these are two significant ones I was hoping to apply for. What's with them being so stuck up about my experience and HSK qualification? I worked so hard and it takes the wind out of you to be told your hard work will just be discarded. On the other hand, a while ago my dad gave Manchester Uni's admissions department a ring and after telling them what I'm doing, they actually said that getting acceptance was "virtually certain". Those are just words, but heck, that's a big positive boost for me.
--Experience in China and proficiency in Mandarin is absolutely relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Why would a uni ignore this? Is it not positive?
--To gain such a HSK level in one year alone (and a bit), more than 50% of my study has been hours of self study. 4 hours a day, 5 days a week in class, then many more hours at home studying different textbooks, tiring myself out, etc. Look, I'm always trying to be modest, but if this doesn't show a good independent work ethic, tell me what does.
--I organised none of this through any exchange program or anything to do with an institution. I planned every step of this myself, along with my girlfriend's planning and absolutely wonderful help on the other side, and once all the money I saved from part-time work dried up (£2000+) my parents were extremely, extremely kind to fund me and keep doing so. They funded my flight and insurance too to help me save money, and all my family and friends contributed a lot money to me in the beginning. What I'm trying to say is that I've demonstrated that, aside from my lack of personal finances, I've got the balls to move my life entirely overseas and do things independently (this was the initial plan before things changed).
Sorry to make this such a long post. I'm not happy. What are your thoughts on this? Someone tell me something positive. I've just had over a year's work and thousands of pounds kicked back in my face.
Basically after finishing college in 2009 (BBB in English Lang., Psychology and History), I went straight to China to study Chinese and live with my wonderful Chinese girlfriend. Many reasons and plans led to this. The plan was to study Mandarin to proficiency and then do an actual degree in China, in Chinese, doing a Bachelor's in Chinese literature, language or foreign policy. Fast forward to now, the plans have changed after a lot of thought, and both my girlfriend and I will be coming to the UK to study instead.
When I return next year I will have about 2 years of experience and study in China. All my study has been towards taking the HSK exam - China's international standardised Mandarin proficiency exam. You may already know that the lower levels of this exam can be taken at various unis in the UK, for example SOAS. My goal was to gain Level 6 (Intermediate C) - this is the level required to take any Arts BA in China at most universities. I started studying officially last September and am already studying at HSK Level 7's approx. level, and I expect to gain this Level 6 or 7 after the next HSK exam this Sunday here in China. After gaining this level, the qualification will go on my UCAS form.
To sum up the HSK, it is for Mandarin what IELTS is for English, etc. Level 6/7 is approximately the third/fourth year level in a Chinese Studies/Language BA course in the UK. I confirmed this by asking SOAS, Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester University. This should give you an idea of how damn hard I've been working over the past year.
To add to this, I will have 2 years of experience in China in general. I live with my lovely girlfriend in a rented apartment in the heart of Xiamen, a small coastal city. I'm in the process of writing various semi-academic essays on Chinese culture and modern society, focusing on the psychological effects of China's lightning development.
...Now to the point. Obviously I wanted to inquire what universities thought of this experience and qualification (the HSK), and how I should go about choosing my course. The first consideration was that my Mandarin level would be too high to join the language modules - that's fine, there may be ways around this. But after emailing Edinburgh Uni recently regarding my study in China, they flatly replied:
"...we only look at exams taken in one sitting and therefore your HSK qualification would not make a difference to the decision making process".
They said that my chances were very slim of being gained entry with BBB grades. Not a word about my 2 years working my arse off in China, gaining a qualification far higher than an A-Level in language, and no consideration of the fact that everything I've done is totally relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Yes, my BBB grades fell short of the mark to me, and BBB offers from Edinburgh are rare, but doing all this in China was also with the intention to give my application a strength boost - this is something most applicants will not have, and is totally relevant. I'd have thought this would count for something more and balance things out regarding my BBB grades. Seriously, I've worked damn hard.
I emailed SOAS among the same lines a while back - their response was not exactly different, however they did have an ABB grade requirement for the course. They basically said "if we ask for ABB grades, that's what we expect", and like Edinburgh, they didn't even put a word in about everything I've done in China. Initially I thought fine if they want to be so anal about it, I wasn't fussed about living in London anyway. But the response from Edinburgh has gotten me angry:
--I understand this is two unis, but these are two significant ones I was hoping to apply for. What's with them being so stuck up about my experience and HSK qualification? I worked so hard and it takes the wind out of you to be told your hard work will just be discarded. On the other hand, a while ago my dad gave Manchester Uni's admissions department a ring and after telling them what I'm doing, they actually said that getting acceptance was "virtually certain". Those are just words, but heck, that's a big positive boost for me.
--Experience in China and proficiency in Mandarin is absolutely relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Why would a uni ignore this? Is it not positive?
--To gain such a HSK level in one year alone (and a bit), more than 50% of my study has been hours of self study. 4 hours a day, 5 days a week in class, then many more hours at home studying different textbooks, tiring myself out, etc. Look, I'm always trying to be modest, but if this doesn't show a good independent work ethic, tell me what does.
--I organised none of this through any exchange program or anything to do with an institution. I planned every step of this myself, along with my girlfriend's planning and absolutely wonderful help on the other side, and once all the money I saved from part-time work dried up (£2000+) my parents were extremely, extremely kind to fund me and keep doing so. They funded my flight and insurance too to help me save money, and all my family and friends contributed a lot money to me in the beginning. What I'm trying to say is that I've demonstrated that, aside from my lack of personal finances, I've got the balls to move my life entirely overseas and do things independently (this was the initial plan before things changed).
Sorry to make this such a long post. I'm not happy. What are your thoughts on this? Someone tell me something positive. I've just had over a year's work and thousands of pounds kicked back in my face.
(edited 13 years ago)
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Bitter much? You say that many applicants won't have your experience, but so what? Many of them will have AAA and you don't, so it balances out.
Not... really...? No one forced you to do that work or spend that money. If you had any sense you would've enquired about how useful it would be before you took the plunge rather than after it.
mrnightcat
I've just had over a year's work and thousands of pounds kicked back in my face.
Not... really...? No one forced you to do that work or spend that money. If you had any sense you would've enquired about how useful it would be before you took the plunge rather than after it.
Pedrobear
Bitter much? You say that many applicants won't have your experience, but so what? Many of them will have AAA and you don't, so it balances out.
Not... really...? No one forced you to do that work or spend that money. If you had any sense you would've enquired about how useful it would be before you took the plunge rather than after it.
Not... really...? No one forced you to do that work or spend that money. If you had any sense you would've enquired about how useful it would be before you took the plunge rather than after it.
Sorry to be a bit bitter. My point is that everything I've done in China is relevant to a Chinese Studies degree. No, I don't have AAA in A-Level but I will soon have the HSK qualification which is far higher in level than an A-Level in Chinese. I feel that balances things - yes, AAA grades are obviously fantastic, but don't see how what I've done can't help bring me up to a level more respected than 3 B grades.
If hundreds of graduates apply to that course with AAA and variations of a personal statement, it's basic logic (which college tutors hammer into us) that things outside one's A-Levels should be taken fairly into consideration. And yes, I apologise for being bitter and I probably sound awfully arrogant by saying this, but I've done more than take a summer camp to China for a few months.
I had expected and hoped universities would see it positively that I did this of my own accord. And as I mentioned in my post, I did not do this at first with the intention of coming back. Over time, reasons why studying in China would be unsuitable gradually revealed themselves - i.e. education quality, degree value overseas, potential for a later Master's degree, etc. I changed my mind later, and those are a few small reasons why.
mcBleugh
Repeat couple of your A Level modules?
My A-Levels were the ones done during the older curriculum - the one that ended in 2009. If my teachers were correct in saying so, since the A-Level curriculum changed in September 2009 it is not possible to resit any of my A-Level modules. We were distinctly warned before our A2 exams that we were the last class on the old curriculum, and would not be given any chances to retake exams.
To be honest I also don't want to delay my uni entry for longer either way - 2011 is already two years.
mrnightcat
If hundreds of graduates apply to that course with AAA and variations of a personal statement, it's basic logic (which college tutors hammer into us) that things outside one's A-Levels should be taken fairly into consideration.
Yeah, but the thing is you aren't even in that group of AAA students who have to have other factors taken into account. Your entire application is effectively 'other factors'. Not saying I agree with SOAS/Edinburgh's stance, but it does essentially make some sort of sense. Having lived in China for a while doesn't really hold that much weight on its own since Chinese Studies students will be expected to do that during their degree anyway...
You might as well try anyway, and I daresay you'd have an easier time with the other unis that offer Chinese (Manchester etc)?
As an aside, I'm in first year now and I'd gladly swap my position to live in China for 2 years. It must've been fascinating. Jealous.
(edited 13 years ago)
Well that's a long post and I'll admit I didn't read anything other than the title. If you want to study in Scotland, though, Glasgow and St Andrews are quite close to the border and have good transport links, and if you want to venture up further north, there's Dundee and Aberdeen too.
In my opinion, Edinburgh is worse than London.
I have not applied to any London uni. I love the city, but it's huge. Edinburgh is huge as well (more than Newcastle or Bristol in appearence, even if they have similar populations), I didn't really like it, and hated the uni (it was nothing I was expecting and everything I am avoiding of Spanish unis).
I wouldn't be too bothered. Manchester sounds really good.
I have not applied to any London uni. I love the city, but it's huge. Edinburgh is huge as well (more than Newcastle or Bristol in appearence, even if they have similar populations), I didn't really like it, and hated the uni (it was nothing I was expecting and everything I am avoiding of Spanish unis).
I wouldn't be too bothered. Manchester sounds really good.
Pedrobear
Yeah, but the thing is you aren't even in that group of AAA students who have to have other factors taken into account. Your entire application is effectively 'other factors'. Not saying I agree with SOAS/Edinburgh's stance, but it does essentially make some sort of sense. Having lived in China for a while doesn't really hold that much weight on its own since Chinese Studies students will be expected to do that during their degree anyway...
You might as well try anyway, and I daresay you'd have an easier time with the other unis that offer Chinese (Manchester etc)?
As an aside, I'm in first year now and I'd gladly swap my position to live in China for 2 years. It must've been fascinating. Jealous.
You might as well try anyway, and I daresay you'd have an easier time with the other unis that offer Chinese (Manchester etc)?
As an aside, I'm in first year now and I'd gladly swap my position to live in China for 2 years. It must've been fascinating. Jealous.
That's my point really - it seems awfully short-sighted of a uni to discard someone whose entire application is different to others, and not in a bad way - I know how arrogant that sounds, I'm not trying to imply that. As far as I know mature students have all their 'other' factors taken into account when applying - they might have A-Level grades in whatever grades, but theoretically those will be old grades, perhaps very old or possibly not existent. This is when all their other factors come into account. I'll start at 21 and won't exactly be a 'mature' student, but why can't all my experiences be taken into account too?
I know having lived in China for 2 years won't hold too much weight, and that's why the highest HSK grade I can achieve is going on the application. Again, I'm not trying to sound arrogant but if you've taken the HSK at that level you'll know it's not a small thing to come away with, far more than a Mandarin A at A-Level. Getting to this level is one of my major demonstrations of work ethic, motivation to pre-study things related to the degree, as well as proving I didn't go to China for a doss.
It's complicated regarding which uni I want to apply for, but that's beside the point. My girlfriend is doing a massive undertaking to do an Master's in the UK, and we'd both like to go to the same uni if possible. It's very important we go through all the processes together. Manchester is a uni we both want to apply for though too.
Yes, living in China has been the most important and beneficial experience I've had in my life so far related to education and experience, period. I feel I've developed hugely as a person and do not regret doing it, even though unis are giving me the cold shoulder. There's no question it was quite a risk though - you're secure in your first year at uni and will be in a much better position to go there (or wherever you like) after you graduate or on a year abroad, namely because you'll have a degree which is usually a big requirement to an official job in countries such as China or Japan, and because you'll already have a more educated mindset over 3/4 years. It'll be a bit easier financially and uni will give you time to prepare language-wise, etc - I went into China unable to count from 1 to 10, I'm serious. I got in the deep end, but it was fun. I think you'd have just as much a brilliant time, if also a more organised time, when going during or after uni, so no need to feel too jealous, haha
(edited 13 years ago)
A Chinese Studies course is more than just the language. They want you to be qualified for that rather than better than your peers at the language.
Thanks for the motivation boosts too here on this thread - I'm going to look into other Scottish unis too (I love Scotland, but I will also admit I love the tuition fees too), and think Manchester is quite a firm choice for application otherwise.
Edinburgh Uni are really stupid with stuff like this! My advice would be just to forget about Edinburgh and apply some where else! Edinburgh told me I had no chance of getting an offer and I'm predicted A*A*A*A!
munn
My positive is this: Edinburgh is a **** city
No it isn't, it's wonderful!
thatwhichiam
A Chinese Studies course is more than just the language. They want you to be qualified for that rather than better than your peers at the language.
I understand what you mean - the language certainly wasn't the only qualification I thought necessary, and it shows more than just the proficiency as I explained.
My intention was to use my experience and proficiency to give my application a relevant boost and have better consideration than just with my BBB grades. I'd have thought if anything, it's very relevant.
mrnightcat
--Experience in China and proficiency in Mandarin is absolutely relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Why would a uni ignore this? Is it not positive?
--Experience in China and proficiency in Mandarin is absolutely relevant to a Chinese Studies course. Why would a uni ignore this? Is it not positive?
not nessesarily especially the language as the studies course does not include any lingustics i think. the experience i would rate for it more than the language but i wouldnt discount the language.
the course may not be studing modern china so that may be why the experience that you have isint being considered.
remember though that the grades are the academic requirements only not the full requirements so im sure that your experience would be weighed in good favor in your personal statment etc.
and edinburgh is a notoriosly stuck up uni
ps sorry if my spelling is a bit poor I can't seem to spell properly today
Ok, yes it's a bit unreasonable of them and yes it seems unfair, but at the end of the day if that's what they're saying then that's what they're saying and there's no changing that, so may as well just get over it and make the most of what you *can* do!
I got rejected from Edinburgh, and had had my heart set on it so was pretty bummed, but having come to Newcastle last year I'm so happy I did! It's the nicest (friendliest) city I've ever lived in, so don't dwell on it, and consider your other options, it will probably work out better than you would think right now
I got rejected from Edinburgh, and had had my heart set on it so was pretty bummed, but having come to Newcastle last year I'm so happy I did! It's the nicest (friendliest) city I've ever lived in, so don't dwell on it, and consider your other options, it will probably work out better than you would think right now
georgiemuc
Edinburgh Uni are really stupid with stuff like this! My advice would be just to forget about Edinburgh and apply some where else! Edinburgh told me I had no chance of getting an offer and I'm predicted A*A*A*A!
Ouch, that's awfully unreasonable of them, regardless of what subject you were applying for in my opinion. Whoever told you that must be bonkers to say such a thing to someone with stratospheric grades.
Dan3va
not nessesarily especially the language as the studies course does not include any lingustics i think. the experience i would rate for it more than the language but i wouldnt discount the language.
the course may not be studing modern china so that may be why the experience that you have isint being considered.
remember though that the grades are the academic requirements only not the full requirements so im sure that your experience would be weighed in good favor in your personal statment etc.
and edinburgh is a notoriosly stuck up uni
ps sorry if my spelling is a bit poor I can't seem to spell properly today
the course may not be studing modern china so that may be why the experience that you have isint being considered.
remember though that the grades are the academic requirements only not the full requirements so im sure that your experience would be weighed in good favor in your personal statment etc.
and edinburgh is a notoriosly stuck up uni
ps sorry if my spelling is a bit poor I can't seem to spell properly today
Yes, I see what you're saying. From descriptions I've read from various unis, some seem to take the route of studying modern China/language and then go into the route of Classical Chinese or history. I could be totally and utterly wrong though.
I'm still clinging onto the language as significant though. Though this is my opinion, the modern Chinese language hasn't changed a huge amount over the last 50 years - much less so compared to English anyway - and there's actually a lot of culturally revealing things in the language which are more obscure when trying to process them in other languages. I think a Chinese Studies course is somewhat unlikely to discard the language altogether or at all, as it really is quite important - to studying Chinese culture anyway. Modern society and history, somewhat less so.
(edited 13 years ago)
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