Why does the average person go to uni these days?

By "average person" I mean someone who isn't a high-achieving, in the top classes student, doesn't have a particular career in mind and isn't passionate about a particular subject.

If you don't intend to aim for a profession that requires a degree (doctor, lawyer, engineer etc.) is it actually necessary to get a degree? Can you get that far without one? (obviously it's possible since Bill Gates and various other tycoons didn't get one but let's talk realistically)

Given the fact so many people go nowadays, are degrees worth less or on the other hand if you don't have one, you're fairly worthless to employers?

Has the government only tried to get more people into higher education mainly to have some nice statistics?

Are many university relatively aimless/carefree people who mostly want to have a good time? Are uni prospectuses too much like a holiday camp brochures nowadays? Is uni often mostly a few years where you don't have to go to work (in an ordinary job) and spend more time going out drinking and having a laugh?

Why does it seem like a lot of people do masters degrees (again without a specific career or vocation in mind?)

How smart do you actually have to be to cope with a degree course? What percentage of a typical school has the potential? How hard is a degree really?

(edited 13 years ago)

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Reply 1

TheSownRose

Original post by Gwasgray

If you don't intend to aim for a profession that requires a degree (doctor, lawyer, engineer etc.) is it actually necessary to get a degree? Can you get that far without one? (obviously it's possible since Bill Gates and various other tycoons didn't get one but let's talk realistically)

Also consider that a lot of these self-made tycoons did so before uni was commonplace, and was only used as an entry for the upper-classes into politics, managerial business or professions like doctor and lawyer.

Reply 2

Gwasgray

Oh, I'm aware of that.

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 3

alexs2602

Original post by Gwasgray

Bill Gates went to Harvard, you ****tard!

Reply 4

rylit91

I think that the reason for the deluge of University graduates is, as you say, for the purpose of statistics. The Govt relishes being able to boast that a high percentage of people in Britain have University degrees; what they don't consider, however, is whether these degrees are actually academically rigorous or worthwhile. A degree can be in more or less anything these days.

As a result, the value of degrees has plummeted considerably. This is not only bad for the workforce, as it will be difficult - or near impossible- to differentiate between those who have respectable degrees and those who have done mickey mouse courses. In addition to this, it means that those who go to University with the intention of becoming teachers are generally less educated that is to say the standard of teachers is lower, meaning the overall education of the population has been lowered.

I think a lot of people are herded towards University, certainly at my school we were never actually given the opportunity to express that we perhaps may not want to go to University. It was naturally assumed everyone's applying through UCAS etc. They also see it as a way to buy some time and hope that a career 'develops' for them during their time at University.

While I wouldn't say that all students are 'aimless/carefree people' I think your observation is not far off the mark. The student image has been cultivated in recent years, that of the binge-drinking, foul-mouthed, lazy, workaphobe. This is true. These are carefree, aimless people, so I'd agree to an extent that a lot of this sort has been [mis] directed towards University.

With regard to degree difficulty, I have heard that 40% is all that is required in the first year to stay on the course. This, in a lot of people's eyes, gives them a licence to go out every night and throw caution to the wind on the premise that they need minimal grades to stay on and haven't a thing to concern themselves with.

These are just my humble opinions...

Reply 5

Gwasgray

Original post by alexs2602

Bill Gates went to Harvard, you ****tard!

He didn't graduate. Now who's the ****tard?

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 6

lizlaz350

Original post by rylit91

I think a lot of people are herded towards University, certainly at my school we were never actually given the opportunity to express that we perhaps may not want to go to University. It was naturally assumed everyone's applying through UCAS etc. They also see it as a way to buy some time and hope that a career 'develops' for them during their time at University.

This is very true.
Everyone at my school was made to feel like they HAD to apply. They gave us lots of talks on university life and choosing universities, but no talks on the alternatives.

People were pressurised into filling out their UCAS forms - a girl I know was adamant that she wasn't going to university as she doesn't enjoy education, finds it hard, and she had a career in mind that didn't need a degree, but the school kept badgering her to apply anyway in case she 'changed her mind'.

A lot of people apply to university because they are made to feel as though there is no other option and they'll never get any career without a degree, which isn't always true.

The media.

Original post by Gwasgray

He didn't graduate. Now who's the ****tard?

You still are, you said nothing about graduating in your starting post. The fact of the matter is he went to one of the best universities in the world.

Reply 9

TheSownRose

Original post by Gwasgray

I'd say that if we could go back a few years, the answer is a resounding 'no'; however, so many people have degrees now that employers could demand a graduate employee base, and that's become reasonable. Jobs for non-graduates are obviously still out there, but they're getting less and, if you can get onto the first rung, a degree can take you further quicker down certain routes. And I've already discussed my opinion of citing self-made tycoons: you have to consider their achievements in the context of when they achieved them.

Given the fact so many people go nowadays, are degrees worth less or on the other hand if you don't have one, you're fairly worthless to employers?

The degrees themselves aren't worth less, but it was that you'd have a significant advantage over other people if you were the graduate. However, now, a lot of people in competition for the same job will also have a degree, so you have to be more competitive in other areas. And whether you're worthless depends on what job, and what stage in your working like. By the latter, I mean it's pretty much only important for the first job. As for the former, take plumbing for example - it's been kept as a non-graduate career, so you're not worthless in that line, but if the powers that be in plumbing decided they wanted it to be a graduate career, it would be offered as a degree and you'd soon become worthless trying to become a plumber without one.

Has the government only tried to get more people into higher education mainly to have some nice statistics?

Nice statistics, both in education and in unemployment (the reason they can't really turn back now), and to generate more economy - places like Exeter and Keele survive on the money that students bring in.

Are many university relatively aimless/carefree people who mostly want to have a good time? Are uni prospectuses too much like a holiday camp brochures nowadays? Is uni often mostly a few years where you don't have to go to work (in an ordinary job) and spend more time going out drinking and having a laugh?

I wouldn't say many - most are there with aims of getting a good degree and studying something they enjoy, even without a specific direction in mind, and obviously some are there to enter specific professions. But I don't think the advertising reflects this ... but how could it? Would 'come here, we make our students work really hard for little reward until a few years after graduation' make anyone go to that uni, whether or not they intended to work hard?

Why does it seem like a lot of people do masters degrees (again without a specific career or vocation in mind?)

Post-grad degrees are a bit harder to distinguish the motives of - many want to enter the academic world. Some also do it to compensate for what they perceive to be a poor undergraduate degree, and yes, you get more delaying tactics here.

How smart do you actually have to be to cope with a degree course? What percentage of a typical school has the potential? How hard is a degree really?

Ah, now that I don't know, having only experienced half of one. :wink:

Reply 10

Samz

Personally, I know I shouldn't be at uni. I got average A Levels (BBC) in average subjects (Psychology Sociology Law) and am now studying an average degree (Criminology with Psych) at an average uni. (Portsmouth.) I went because it still seemed like it was expected, in my college there was very little focus on anything other than going to university.
If I'm honest as well, I wanted to put off getting a proper job for a bit longer. Being pinned down in one career path is literally my worst nightmare, I change my mind about the job I want pretty much weekly. After uni, I'll be going travelling just to put it off a bit longer.
I know it sounds awful, but I'm just being honest. That's why I went.

Reply 11

oodlesofpoodles

So many people have degrees now, and because of that when you apply for a decent job a degree is expected. I know people like to trash the softer subjects and like to say that getting a degree in a such a subject is not needed, but I would say the opposite. With unemployment as it stands now people do need degrees because competition for jobs is so fierce. Personally I chose University because I know I won't be able to get the job I want without doing undergrad and postgrad study.

Reply 12

Dude Where's My Username

Good question OP. I've asked that loads recently, what's the point getting into debt doing a degree in a subject, related to an industry that doesn't require one? :s-smilie:

I'm not going to lie, I'm mainly doing my degree for vanity and self esteem reasons. I had a tough time growing up, so having an academic degree and doing well in it gives me self confidence and something to be proud of. I enjoy the subject and I genuinely believe it (provided I hit my target of getting a first) will help speed up my progression in the company I currently work for, despite that company being a leading hospitality brand rather than an engineering one.

I've yet to decide if I want to go ahead with attemping to gain a career with Network Rail or Balfour Beatty at the end though........

Reply 13

Gwasgray

Original post by alexs2602

You still are, you said nothing about graduating in your starting post. The fact of the matter is he went to one of the best universities in the world.

I said he didn't get a degree, not that he didn't attend university. Now p*** off out of my thread. (BTW anyone else reading this, he was rude first)

(edited 13 years ago)

Reply 14

Gwasgray

Original post by oodlesofpoodles

Personally I chose University because I know I won't be able to get the job I want without doing undergrad and postgrad study.

What job do you want?

Reply 15

alexs2602

Original post by Gwasgray

I said he didn't get a degree, not that he didn't attend university. Now p*** off out of my thread. (BTW anyone else reading this, he was rude first)

Lmao, you can **** right off. Your thread? You can keep it, it's lame anyway. So lame in fact I didnt even bother reading it properly. You should probably try and bear in mind that your argument is hugely flawed because while Gates didnt get a degree he received university education and obviously had the brains to go to one of the best universities in the world which applies to a very small proportion of the population. What I'm essentially trying to say is that just because he didnt get or need a degree doesnt mean that university education isn't useful to people a lot more stupid than him