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2005 Britain / 1936 Germany.

LoveYourSlavery

Is this nothing to worry about or is it something.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article320005.ece

Reply 1

Astor

10

Not in the slightest. It's about time someone kicked the so called "human rights" up the arse - next time someone you know gets mugged or harrassed, read up on the "human rights" view on the offender - Being a "human" and all, they should be treated equally to the victim....yada yada.

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

Reply 2

gordon_is_fit

1

yep britain has turned into nazi germany. no, really. congratulations

Reply 3

JonD

5

Astor

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

Have you considered that perhaps it seemed so disciplined because those who didn't stay in line could expect inhumanity and extermination?

Reply 4

halloweenjack

1

Is this nothing to worry about or is it something.

Nope, nothing to worry about at all :smile:

Reply 5

DenkMit

9

Astor

Not in the slightest. It's about time someone kicked the so called "human rights" up the arse - next time someone you know gets mugged or harrassed, read up on the "human rights" view on the offender - Being a "human" and all, they should be treated equally to the victim....yada yada.

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

I agree competly, Astor! the law already favours the criminal and not the victim.

Reply 6

LoveYourSlavery

OP

DenkMit

I agree competly, Astor! the law already favours the criminal and not the victim.

Yes. We all think it's good when Blair starts saying we need a more victim centred justice system. We think of all the press reports of yobs and hoodies and old ladies who have been mugged.

The problem with swaying the pendulum more in favour of the victim is that you are taking away the rights of the defendant, weather innocent or guilty. Innocent people will be convicted.

Consecutive governments have allowed the police to go underfunded and have allowed ineffective sentencing due to lack of prision places and misguided liberal thinking. The current government have further hindered the police through bureaucracy.

So now because governments have allowed society to fall apart over decades, I have to give up my rights?

Reply 7

JacobCohen

2

Astor

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

And how are you going to achieve that discipline, without all that inhumanity? :rolleyes:

Extermination and racism was how Nazi Germany achieved discipline.

Reply 8

Beekeeper

13

Original source

the Government is undermining freedoms citizens have taken for granted for centuries and that Britain risks drifting towards a police state.

"drifting towards"?!

Britain is the police state of the world, fact.

Reply 9

laura789

9

britain has more cameras than any other country in the world. it makes up for some 30% of the worlds cctv cameras. stoke on trent (i think thats where it is not really sure) has more cctv cameras than new york city. british ppl are videoed approx 14 times a day. surely that has some kind of police state ring to it

Reply 10

Beekeeper

13

laura789

britain has more cameras than any other country in the world. it makes up for some 30% of the worlds cctv cameras. stoke on trent (i think thats where it is not really sure) has more cctv cameras than new york city. british ppl are videoed approx 14 times a day. surely that has some kind of police state ring to it

300+ times a day if you live in central London.

Some ways British people are monitored:

The Office of National Statistics
The National Child Database
The Electoral Register
The Citizens Information Project
The British Police (5.5m fingerprints & 2.5m DNA's)
Road Vehicles/number plates/driving licenses
Vehicle telematics
The NHS National Programme
and the proposed ID cards.
The London Congestion charge
The Oyster Card
Various loyalty cards

The list goes on...

Reply 11

DenkMit

9

Some things, however, I am in favour of. Everyone should be forced to register on a national fingerprint and DNA database. Would cut down crime no end. And there really is no human rights recourse - its really the sort of information that can only be used for police work.

Reply 12

Longshoredrift80

10

laura789

britain has more cameras than any other country in the world. it makes up for some 30% of the worlds cctv cameras. stoke on trent (i think thats where it is not really sure) has more cctv cameras than new york city. british ppl are videoed approx 14 times a day. surely that has some kind of police state ring to it

Not really.
"I suppose the people who object to CCTV cameras watching them in public places also object to other people looking at them in public places? And you obviously reject the idea that there should be vigilant policemen on the streets, right? Really, CCTV is just another police facility for keeping an eye on what's happening (and for piecing together where people were and what happened if needed at a later date). It could be served by having policemen hanging around watching (and trying to remember) everything, but that'd be far less efficient and far more costly. Anyway, are you all busy doing things that you shouldn't be doing and don't want watched?
Yes, if they put CCTV in my home against my will, I'd be the first to complain, but I don't have some magical expectation that I should be able to have complete privacy while conducting myself in public."

Beekeeper:
The Office of National Statistics - They need some idea of who's in the country.
The National Child Database - They need some idea of people being born, it helps protect children.
The Electoral Register - You don't need to vote.
The British Police (5.5m fingerprints & 2.5m DNA's) - That's not much of the population actually... 9% prints, 4% DNA.
Road Vehicles/number plates/driving licenses - You don't need to drive.
Vehicle telematics - You don't need to drive.
The NHS National Programme - You don't need to register with a GP or use the NHS.
The London Congestion charge - You don't need to pay it if you don't drive in central London.
The Oyster Card - You don't need one.
Various loyalty cards - You don't need them.

I think you're really just referring to the paper trail that a British person leaves while conducting their lives, rather than any deliberate "ways we're monitored". You makes it all sound far more sinister than it is. The Freedom of Information Act 2000, allowing you to legally access information held about you, has also been mostly ignored by people making those sorts of points.

Reply 13

ScousePaddy

Astor

Not in the slightest. It's about time someone kicked the so called "human rights" up the arse - next time someone you know gets mugged or harrassed, read up on the "human rights" view on the offender - Being a "human" and all, they should be treated equally to the victim....yada yada.

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

The concern is that fundamental legal principles are being undermined, such as the right to a fair trial. If we give away those rights then the terrorists will have won. If we are to stand up to and defeat terrorism then we must maintain our libertarian principles, to show them they can't change our way of life.

I for one would be happy to be at a slightly increased risk of dying in a terrorist attack if it means remaining free.

Reply 14

technik

13

CCTV is childs play.

the state has far better ways of watching you and they arent visible like a camera, and dont have some security goon on £5/hour watching them.

Reply 15

an Siarach

15

The comparison is ludicrous.

Reply 16

Agent Smith

11

It's scaremongering from the Independent, but it highlights the fact that civil liberties are indeed coming under serious fire. I disagree strongly with the recent restrictions of liberty, and things like the loss of habeas corpus, carried out in the cause of protecting democracy (I agree with ScousePaddy), but I wouldn't go as far as comparing Blair's Britain (soon to be Brown's, of course) with Hitler's Germany.

Why 1936, anyway? Why not 1933, the year when the Reichstag Fire Decree suspended human rights, and when Hitler gained total power through the Enabling Act?

Reply 17

slk999

15

Astor

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

You would?? I'm not sure, Nazi Germany was pretty horrific- I mean, we have nothing like the SS or the Gestapo to be scared of? And my god, we're scared of Al-Qaeda, 1936 had bloody maniac off his trolley Hitler in power- however the only thing I can say in favour of your argument, is that at least Germany could predict what was coming, we cannot really predict anything that Terrorism might spring on us (regretably).

Reply 18

Weejimmie

1

Astor

Quite frankly, minus all the racism and inhumanity - I would prefer a 1936 German behaved society to the yobbish one we have now; like I said, minus all the extermination, racism etc - If Britain was half as disciplined as Germany I'd die a happy frog.

The differemce is that in nazi Germany the yobs- and much nastier yobs than we can produce ourselves- were the ones that ran the gaff. What was its ethos except racism and inhumanity?

Reply 19

qeboy

Personally I think that in terms of anti terrorism bills we are far worse than nazi geramny in 1936, we are officially sanctioning a police state which is unanswerable, with a presidential style of government at the top.
The human rights bill was a mistake. Instead of ruching through this bill in 1999 for the sake of the eu we should have drawn up a much more fundamental chrater of rights for british citizens, with long careful consideration over content and wording.
However we are where we are, adn now i think that the bill has turned into a pandora's box becuase now it is stopping this increasingly , stumbling, illiberal, incoherent, warring government, making dangerous laws.

2005 Britain / 1936 Germany.

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