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HEY. Dyslexia is real.

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Original post by FazerWiz
Dyslexia is caused by the processing centres of the brain not being linked in quite the same way as with other people.


What does that even mean? It's so vague that you may as well have not even said it. What processing centres are you referring to? How are the connections 'different'.

It doesn't offer any real explanation because, if you take individual A and B: A studies really hard and B doesn't. Essentially, their "processing centres" are going to be "connected differently" through the process of learning. What this is caused by, however, is a differing level of dedication. It doesn't neccesarily mean that B is pathological.

Original post by FazerWiz

This guy's logic and reason centre is connected to the centre of his brain that processes vision.


Logic and reason centre? No such thing. Was the person who made this film a phrenologist or is it just complete pop-neuroscience?

And the centre of his brain that processes vision? What are you referring to here? The visual system is highly organised and distributed in a hierarchical fashion. What you are saying here makes no sense in the context of that. However, the statement is so vague that there is no real meat to haggle with in the form of a detailed debate.

Original post by FazerWiz
so when that part of the brain is linked to the logic centre, it allows for incredible calculations to be done without conscious effort or thought. This guy can learn a language in a week and recite pi to 22,000 places, from memory!


Logic centre again.. No such thing. Complete pseudo-science. Please tell me where this 'logic centre' is again and how and where it interacts with the visual system.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
If someone can 'process things' twice as fast as the average student, does that mean they should get reduced time?


they should be given the optimum amount of time to convey their knowledge of the subject... (presuming that the subject isnt the means of being tested, eg, writting+reading)... as should every student, The means of testing shouldnt get in the way of what it is trying to test.
ofcourse if this person is a genius and wants to leave a 2 hour exam, after half an hour... they should be allowed, In just the same way as a dyslexic person, who may take longer to comprehend/convey ideas, in writing (but has the same understanding/knowledge of ths subject) should be given the option to have longer.
Neither would be forced, but both would have the best amount of time, to convey there knowledge/understandig
in an ideal world...
Original post by Tommyjw
When i see multiple kids taking tests, getting thousands of pounds worth of free equipment, money which could be spent somewhere else, and yet i have seen these guys do work, essays and everything else and at most their is a small difference.. i have a right to hate people with dyslexia.

Ok, i don;t hate people with it.. just the ones who hardly have it and get all this stuff.

Get imacs, macbook pro's , laptops etc etc etc .. all because it takes them a free extra seconds to process.

I'm a deep thinker, i process everything slowly because i go through a thought process about it.. i have had a psychologist say this to me and multiple teachers etc, i don't 'jump' at questions, even very short ones, like people seem to do during exams with 2 - 5 mark questions, it takes me double the time of everyone else, can i have free stuff please?


I agree on the most part... the system is wrong, its trying its best... but its not quite working. It does (very sucsessfully) help those who truelly need it, who have a ligitimate need for equipment/help with medical support, etc...,
But its far to easily abused at the moment, and as you said, someone with a minor problem can take advantage of the system easily.
Reply 43
Original post by boo7788
Yes, dyslexia is indeed real. So do other conditions which hinder exam performance, such as low IQ and general stupidity. People affected by the latter have to just cope without extra time, why should you get special dispensation? Life does not give you extra time. When, for example, you're pushing through a last minute deal on the stock market, you can't blurt out "Oh sorry, give me 25% more time to get it done, I'm dyslexic". I have sympathy for those who struggle as a result of dyslexia, but life is not always fairs and you just have to deal with it.


You're using quite an absurd example there. How many people who are dyslexic, and have difficulties processing information, will be stockbrokers?

Exam concessions are a reasonable adjustment. Dyslexia (whether it really exists or not) is considered to be a disability. As a result education providers are obliged to not put those with dyslecia at a disadvantage (Special Educational Needs and Disability Act 2001).

When in employment someone with dyslexia is going to play to their strengths and go into an occupation which they are well suited to. If they have trouble processing information they will not become a stockbroker. When in employment they will be entitled to Reasonable Adjustments (under the Disability Discrimination Act of 1995). So yes, they will be entitled to support and adjustments providing it is reasonable.

Original post by Craig_D
I think that the academic difference caused by dyslexia to each sufferer is different, and therefore giving each of them an arbitrary 30 minutes (or however long it is), no matter how slightly or severely they are affected, is a ridiculous way of doing it.

It's a sensitive issue I understand, but it's also my feeling that a qualification should be without personal context and simply a recognition of reaching a set academic benchmark, otherwise if the boundaries are moved for certain candidates then can the two qualifications still be compared and considered equal? Or does that qualification actually cease to mean anything at all?


The idea is that the boundaries are only being moved in order to create a level playing field.

Now I do appreciate that, as people are affected to different levels, having a "one size fits all" approach is problematic.

When using a computer instead of pen and paper, a student's typing speed will usually be taken into account. That way, if the student has a particularly fast writing speed, the student isn't placed at an advantage (yes, I'm well aware it's possible to "fake" your typing speed).

Perhaps this is just the problem with timed, written exams? Perhaps we should just do away with them? After all, they were not the original form of assessment in universities and can often result in an exercise of how much you can memorise and then splurge out in time conditions.

Ongoing written assessment (through essays and reports) is a far more fair and accurate in my opinion.

Original post by Tommyjw
When i see multiple kids taking tests, getting thousands of pounds worth of free equipment, money which could be spent somewhere else, and yet i have seen these guys do work, essays and everything else and at most their is a small difference.. i have a right to hate people with dyslexia.

Ok, i don;t hate people with it.. just the ones who hardly have it and get all this stuff.

Get imacs, macbook pro's , laptops etc etc etc .. all because it takes them a free extra seconds to process.


Have you read my first post in this thread? The students who assumed all the equipment I had (laptop, IPad, voice recorder) was given to me "for free" because (they assume) I have a disabiity? How do you know all of this equipment is provided through DSA?

Dyslexia can cause greater problems than that, including severely reduced writing speed as well as poor organisation skills.

Despite the rumours it is rare for students to get Macbooks and especially Macbook pros. When having a Needs Assessment ALL requests needs to be adequately justified. In the vast majority of cases a Windows based laptop is sufficient, around the £400 - £600 mark. If a student wants a £800 - 1000 Macbook then he or she will usually need to pay the difference him or her self.

What's more, it's becoming increasingly rare for students to receive laptops. They are usually only recommended when mobiliy is an essential requirement. Otherwie cheaper desktops are recommended instead.

The amount of public money spent on DSA is a drop in the ocean, when taking total spending into account.

There will be times in life when you possible need something from the state which a person with dyslexia does not. Then it will be your time to get something for "free".

But let's not forget, these things aren't really free, as we all pay taxes.

I'm a deep thinker, i process everything slowly because i go through a thought process about it.. i have had a psychologist say this to me and multiple teachers etc, i don't 'jump' at questions, even very short ones, like people seem to do during exams with 2 - 5 mark questions, it takes me double the time of everyone else, can i have free stuff please?


No, because it's ultimately your choice/method and not a disability :p:
I have a laptop from the council because I'm on a statement (for something different that I'd prefer not to say).
I've never heard of people getting iMacs, only basic PCs.
They usually give out PCs because of the specialist software that only works on PCs.
Luckily, I've never come across anyone who truly believed that dyslexia doesn't exist... but then perhaps those people have kept those opinions to themselves as they know that upon expressing those views, I'd bite their head off...

I feel that a lot of people don't understand dyslexia - teachers, in particular. When my brother wasn't performing well when learning to read and write in reception, mum realised that he was dyslexic. The teachers brushed away this explanation for his poor literacy and explained that he was 'an August baby' and how 'boys always progress slower' and simply wouldn't even acknowledge that he may be dyslexic.

After battling for years with the school and receiving no help, mum eventually paid for a diagnostic dyslexic test to prove to the school that he was dyslexic. However, even with the official proof that my brother was dyslexic, the school still wouldn't do anything. My mum then spent a lot of money on lessons given by the Dyslexia Institute (I think it now has a different name) and they really helped his literacy.

Dyslexia isn't taken seriously. The undiagnosed dyslexics are the kids who end up acting up in class because they never get any help, and they are then branded as the disruptive, thick kids. The dyslexics who behave (like my brother) and will sit quietly while struggling over their work are simply forgotten about and allowed to fail.

If only dyslexia affected your exterior - if the disability was visible, everyone would take it seriously and no one would dismiss it as 'not being a real disability'.
Reply 46
Original post by Jonty99
But could unintelligent people, or people with bad memories, not just argue that exams "aren't testing them in the right way"?

Eg, someone with an awful memory could say it's unfair that exams rely so much on factual recall. But they wouldn't get extra time for being "naturally unintelligent".

(I don't disagree with you btw, I'm pretty undecided on the whole extra time thing for dyslexics.)


I used to slightly think like this; the main problem is a lot of people who are quite clearly a bit lazy or even stupid claim dyslexia and get extra time . Extra time is given out far too easily, a friend of mine broke his wrist on his non-writing hand a month before the exam and got lots of extra time in case the soreness distracted him.
Anyway, back to the original point for dyslexics extra time is fair I reckon because exams matter so much it would really disillusion them with the system if we forced them to take the exam under the same conditions as "normal" people. I think it's a recognition of the fact that success in life isn't hindered by dyslexia, just atm we have an exam system that makes it hard for them.
Original post by cherriesandpie
Are any other dyslexics pissed off at people's ignorance with it?

Most of my friends don't even think dyslexia is 'real'.

Dylexics take onaverage TWICE the time to process things as the rest of the world so we definitely need the extra exam time and it bums me out when people say that dyslexia is just some bull**** ploy for more time and free laptops.

I process things really slowly, it takes me twice as long as everyone else to get a joke or to work out an answer to a problem, even in an argument I space and can't think of my reasoning when I have good reasons! It is pissing me off that I am just getting Bs in my exams when I can get As (that I need for uni!) all because I am dyslexic.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a crazed rant as my boyfriend just pointed out!



Dyslexia is real, and in the civilised world people are very aware of it. This is why you get extra time, laptops, help and support of various kinds are available to you.

At school, so many people were dyslexic that it didn't really cause any stirs.
And of course, they found many things frustrating, however most of them achieved As at A-level in their chosen subjects because they worked hard, practiced their essays, came to their tutors for help when they felt they were struggling and generally didn't give up. So whilst of course you are finding things hard right now, there is no reason as to why you should do worse than many many dyslexic people who excel in their field.

Right? Right!
Take care babe
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
If someone can 'process things' twice as fast as the average student, does that mean they should get reduced time?


shhh, don't give them ideas!!
Reply 49
Original post by GodspeedGehenna
What does that even mean? It's so vague that you may as well have not even said it. What processing centres are you referring to? How are the connections 'different'.

It doesn't offer any real explanation because, if you take individual A and B: A studies really hard and B doesn't. Essentially, their "processing centres" are going to be "connected differently" through the process of learning. What this is caused by, however, is a differing level of dedication. It doesn't neccesarily mean that B is pathological.



Logic and reason centre? No such thing. Was the person who made this film a phrenologist or is it just complete pop-neuroscience?

And the centre of his brain that processes vision? What are you referring to here? The visual system is highly organised and distributed in a hierarchical fashion. What you are saying here makes no sense in the context of that. However, the statement is so vague that there is no real meat to haggle with in the form of a detailed debate.



Logic centre again.. No such thing. Complete pseudo-science. Please tell me where this 'logic centre' is again and how and where it interacts with the visual system.


You shouldn't dismiss something as being pseudo-science just because you either don't understand it or haven't taken the time to research it.

Up until the age of puberty, neurons in a specific area of the brain are allocated to process specific complex tasks (processing centres). This is very apparent with both speech, vision and logic tasks, all of which have been accurately identified using MRI. Once puberty is reached, it’s no longer possible for new complex processing centres to be created.

To read details of the evidence for this, read “Crashing Through” by Robert Kurson. It’s an account of the case of Mike May, a man who was blinded at the age of three in a chemical accident and then regained his sight with new stem cell technology at the age of 42. Whilst his eyesight was perfect, he was unable to see. What I mean by that is his eyes were transmitting the images to his brain perfectly, but the centre for processing that information was never formed, so all he “saw” was a mass of different shades of moving colours which meant absolutely nothing to him. After several more years research, doctors came to realise he will never be able to see, because his brain simply no longer has the capacity to create an area specifically to process the mass of information that his eyes are sending. The images that Mike May “sees”, which of course are received inverted, will never represent his surroundings to him.

Another example is the reason adults, who move to a foreign language country, are never able to speak the new language like a native. For example, a 50 year old woman who moved to England from China at the age of 30, will not be able to speak the local language anything like as well as a ten year old native, despite the fact that she has been speaking the local language twice as long.

In order to learn a foreign language, an adult needs to use areas of the brain that they use for logic (reasoning, problem solving) etc to make the translation. They can learn process the translation quickly and speak the language very well, but never without any effort like we speak our native language. If you know a foreign national who has lived here say 30 years and seems to have a perfect command of English, ask them what language they use when they do mathematical calculations it will always be their native language.

The way that different areas of the brain communicate with each other is crucial. For example, you can imagine that when reading a mathematical problem in text (rather than in numbers) the area for processing language needs highly developed pathways to the area which process logical problems. That’s why a foreigner will revert to their native language when solving mathematical questions.

Just how these different centres interact with each other and how they differ in dyslexics is still being researched but more is being learnt about it all the time, especially with the help of MRI, where specific areas can be seen to be active under certain stimuli. There is masses of information available on the subject and I can point you are more texts if you are genuinely interested.
(edited 13 years ago)
Original post by FazerWiz
Dyslexia is very real and very easily measurable now. Typically, genuine dyslexics have a phenomenal ability to visualise things in 3d and find solutions to problems, but have trouble with text and formulas in 2d. Revising from plain text books is very hard,


I'll agree with you there. As part of our ALIS test we took on monday, literally the only person who didnt find the part of the test where you have to match the net of a dice, with the one you were shown, really difficult, was my friend who's dyslexic.
Original post by FazerWiz
You shouldn't dismiss something as being pseudo-science just because you either don't understand it or haven't taken the time to research it.

Up until the age of puberty, neurons in a specific area of the brain are allocated to process specific complex tasks (processing centres). This is very apparent with both speech, vision and logic tasks, all of which have been accurately identified using MRI. Once puberty is reached, it’s no longer possible for new complex processing centres to be created.

To read details of the evidence for this, read “Crashing Through” by Robert Kurson. It’s an account of the case of Mike May, a man who was blinded at the age of three in a chemical accident and then regained his sight with new stem cell technology at the age of 42. Whilst his eyesight was perfect, he was unable to see. What I mean by that is his eyes were transmitting the images to his brain perfectly, but the centre for processing that information was never formed, so all he “saw” was a mass of different shades of moving colours which meant absolutely nothing to him. After several more years research, doctors came to realise he will never be able to see, because his brain simply no longer has the capacity to create an area specifically to process the mass of information that his eyes were sending. The images that Mike May “sees”, which of course are received inverted, will never represent his surroundings to him.

Another example is the reason adults, who move to a foreign language country, are never able to speak the new language like a native. For example, a 50 year old woman who moved to England from China will not be able to speak the local language anything like as well as a ten year old native, despite the fact that she has been speaking the local language twice as long.

In order to learn a foreign language, an adult needs to use areas of the brain that they use for logic (reasoning, problem solving) etc to make the translation. They can learn process the translation quickly and speak the language very well, but never without any effort like we speak our native language. If you know a foreign national who has lived here say 30 years and seems to have a perfect command of English, ask them what language they use when they do mathematical calculations it will always be their native language.

The way that different areas of the brain communicate with each other is crucial. For example, you can imagine that when reading a mathematical problem in text (rather than in numbers) the area for processing language needs highly developed pathways to the area which process logical problems. That’s why a foreigner will revert to their native language when solving mathematical questions.


Lmao, great. I'm fully aware of the nature of localization, thanks. Completely irrelevant to my post and dyslexia, however. The issue that I am having with your initial post is your lack of concrete reference to the neuroanatomical areas that you are calling upon to support your view of dyslexia. The closest thing you got to was a rather defunct and nondescript reference to a 'processing area'. Technically all regions of the brain are 'processing areas'.

In your initial post, by using this strategy, it seemed as though you were trying to sound learned without actually making any solid references that someone could pick you up on. In this post you have just recited an irrelivent body of neuropsychological research that has nothing to do with dyslexia.

Original post by FazerWiz
Just how these different centres interact with each other and how they differ in dyslexics is still being researched but more is being learnt about it all the time, especially with the help of MRI. There is masses of information available on the subject and I can point you are more texts if you are genuinely interested.


Please do. This is what I asked you for in the first place. Please give me some specifics that I can actually consider, instead of using defunct terms like 'processing centre'.

PROTIP: I study neuropsychology, cellular, molecular and cognitive neuroscience at a third year undergraduate level. I'm sure I can 'understand it' despite your reservations in the start of this post.
(edited 13 years ago)
Reply 52
What I wrote in my first post is discussed at length in the book I referenced in my first post by Ron Davis.

GodspeedGehenna

Please give me some specifics that I can actually consider, instead of using defunct terms like 'processing centre'.


I think the term you’re looking for, that links this theory with Dyslexia, is “temporal processing impairment theory'. If you do a search on that, I’m sure you’ll find plenty of relevant reading.

Original post by GodspeedGehenna
In your initial post, by using this strategy, it seemed as though you were trying to sound learned without actually making any solid references that someone could pick you up on.


I can assure you, my first post had nothing to do with trying to sound learned, it was for the sole purpose if trying to share some experiences with someone who was being frustrated by the attitude of others and thereby try to offer a little support. In doing that, I'm not in the least interested in you or anyone else trying to "pick me up" on things. That's a game you play on your own henceforth.
Reply 53
I would just like to say a note for those who may be (or are indeed) very ignorant on ADHD.

ADHD is NOT easily diagnosed, and is incredibly difficult to actually receive diagnosis for. ADHD can also only be diagnosed by a medical practicioner of whom has had a minimum of 7 years intensive training and education.

I am an adult ADHD sufferer and have had my life plagued by others ignorance on this difficulty. This has made my educational as well as social life incredibly hard and upsetting and is something that I would never wish on any other. People who meet me assume that although I am highly educated, I am on some sort of class A substance through my speech and activity...it is simply ADHD.

You would not say to a cancer sufferer that cancer was not real, nor would you say to a victim of depression that it was simply a bad phase. ADHD is a real and true problem that faces sadly many people who face prejudice from society and ignorance from medical professionals. I apolagize for being so stern in tone but this truly saddens and hurts me when I see and hear accusations like this...

To any person who may be suffering from a learning difficult/disability or social/behavioral issue, hold you head high and don't let others frowns keep you down

:smile: God bless
Reply 54
Original post by River85



Have you read my first post in this thread? The students who assumed all the equipment I had (laptop, IPad, voice recorder) was given to me "for free" because (they assume) I have a disabiity? How do you know all of this equipment is provided through DSA?
:



Maybe because they have all told me?
When a guy comes back from having his test, then has that meeting where they discuss what he is going to get, and then one day randomly gets an imac and a laptop .. i dont think any more discussion needs to be made.
Reply 55
Original post by Tommyjw
Maybe because they have all told me?
When a guy comes back from having his test, then has that meeting where they discuss what he is going to get, and then one day randomly gets an imac and a laptop .. i dont think any more discussion needs to be made.


If we're talking about getting equipment through DSA, then it's a Needs Assessment.

I'm not denying that some people do get Macbooks and iMacs. However, these are very much in the minority and, for anyone receiving one, they need to justify it. An assessor is keen for the student to receive the support they need and not want. An assessor will not recommend more expensive computers or equipment unless it's justifiable.

For example, some software won't work with Windows. Getting a computer, with Windows, is therefore useless.

You cannot go into a Needs Assessment with a list of things you want and then expect to get them. As mentioned, it's becoming increasingly rare for laptops to be recommended as they are more expensive and not as future proof as desktops.

Someone can choose to get a more expensive computer, including an imac, but they will have to pay the difference. I don't know anyone who has received an iMac. However, I do know of someone who wanted one (the software they used was Mac OS only) and, even then, the assessor would only recommend a significantly cheaper Windows desktop. So she had to pay the difference herself.

It's certainly nothing to be envious of. I'm sure many people would be willing to give up the equipment if it means they no longer have the condition (and face the discrimination they do face is society).
(edited 13 years ago)

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