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Is an Anglo union between UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand a good idea?

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Original post by MostUncivilised
Actually, Tony Abbott was born in Britain but to an Australian mother and British father.But he would indeed have been a British citizen (up until he entered parliament, at which point parliamentarians have to disclaim any adherence to alien powers or foreign magnates, which the UK is in a technical legal sense considered to be).


Okay, so he's Australian in law. As an actual person he is no different. :wink:

Original post by MostUncivilised
And 400,000 Australians living in Britain, including me. My Mum was born in Britain, also to an Australian mother and a British father, And there are many British-Australian dual citizens like me who maintain very strong links between both countries.


Are you Australian or British? My father's side of the family is Australian, I was born in Wales but still have an entire side of my family on the other side of the world. It's strange as when you go to visit you don't feel like a tourist. I was walking around the town as if I had lived there for ever. Though I hadn't, I instantly felt at home. Australia is Britain in the sun. I imagine you feel the same way no matter the country.

Original post by MostUncivilised
I think that may be difficult in some senses. The way Australia and New Zealand see it, Britain walked out on us to join the Common Market. We made our peace with it, and pivoted to the Asia-Pacific, where 80% of our imports-exports come from and go to. But I do believe there is scope for continued and expanded security, military and political co-operation.

Britain, Australia and New Zealand can trust each other like family, in a way that Britain can't trust its continental neighbours, and Aus/NZ can't trust their Asian neighbours. That relationship should be valued and protected


There will always be expanding scope. The % is irrelevant. The Anglosphere wouldn't reduce imports and exports with Asia-Pacific and for Britain with Europe, but instead increase exports and imports between the Anglosphere countries. The percentage inevitably declines but as an actual figure, it increases. There's more chance of an Anglosphere increasing Anzac-Asia-Pacific imports and exports. The UK has double the economy and adds extra clout in a trading block negotiating with Asia-Pacific. I would say, the UK walking out on Australia and New Zealand must be the worst political decision in the history of Britain.

Quite right, it's the 5 eyes now and the Type 26 in the future.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Rakas21
That's nice to hear. If i ever did vote to leave the EU, the first thing i'd want is bilateral treaties with Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA (and Ireland but they'd be included with the EU) for free trade and as close to free movement as we could reasonably get. Trade needs to be improved though, i believe our exports to the 5 countries above (including Ireland) amount to only 20% of exports with new Zealand in particular being woeful. Given that the Netherlands (a relatively small economy) makes up 7% of our exports i do think it's reasonable to push Australia, Canada and New Zealand towards 5% each. Though of course we'll be getting free trade with the USA and Canada very soon.


According to the latest figures the first five nations you mentioned now account for just over 23% which is great! The EU has dropped to around 45% whilst Asia-Pacific have increased. Although the percentage has dropped, exports have increased in other areas. I'm unsure on that free-trade deal with the USA or Canada. It seems too good to be true. The USA has more closed off economy than Britain so inevitably Britain will suffer through foreign takeovers, gutting, an buying out and closing down competition. Britain needs to wave the mild protectionist arm a bit more like the USA does.
Original post by This Is Matt

Are you Australian or British?


Both. I'm a dual-citizen, my Mum was born in Britain to an Australian mother and British father. My Dad was born in Australia to an Anglo-Irish and Scots family that had been in Australia for some time.

Whilst I feel like an Australian, it's also complicated in the sense that I feel wholly entitled to my British citizenship, and I also feel as an Australian as though I am part of a broader English-speaking, common-law culture. That sense is perhaps similar to the way that a Roman in 1st century Alexandria would say Civis Romanus Sum.

When my grandfather and great-grandfather fought in World War 2 in the Australian forces (in North Africa and New Guinea), there's no doubt they felt they were fighting for the British Empire. In the same way, I feel as an Australian like I am still part of a broader British patrimony (even aside from my British citizenship). Though I suppose Australians from other ethnic backgrounds may feel somewhat differently about that. It's as much a cultural and legal patrimony (the English language, Shakespeare, Milton, the common law, English history) as it is political.

My father's side of the family is Australian, I was born in Wales but still have an entire side of my family on the other side of the world. It's strange as when you go to visit you don't feel like a tourist. I was walking around the town as if I had lived there for ever. Though I hadn't, I instantly felt at home. Australia is Britain in the sun. I imagine you feel the same way no matter the country.


I completely agree. Britain does not feel like a foreign country, it feels comfortably familiar and I fit in here very easily. And I'm thrilled to hear that a Brit felt equally as comfortable in Australia. The familiarity is indeed comforting

In fact, I've felt as though I have more in common with Brits from a certain background than they have with their own countrymen from a different background. The fact that I ride (horses), I have a certain view about travel, food, alcohol, sport, education etc makes me quite at home with Brits of a certain milieu. That cross-cultural, cross-border cultural similarity lends itself very easily to strong links between the two countries

There will always be expanding scope. The % is irrelevant. The Anglosphere wouldn't reduce imports and exports with Asia-Pacific and for Britain with Europe, but instead increase exports and imports between the Anglosphere countries. The percentage inevitably declines but as an actual figure, it increases. There's more chance of an Anglosphere increasing Anzac-Asia-Pacific imports and exports. The UK has double the economy and adds extra clout in a trading block negotiating with Asia-Pacific. I would say, the UK walking out on Australia and New Zealand must be the worst political decision in the history of Britain.

Quite right, it's the 5 eyes now and the Type 26 in the future.


Indeed, I think sometimes people underrate just how important Five Eyes is, and just what that says about the level of trust between the two countries. As I said above, it's more than an alliance, it's family. I do hope the Royal Australian Navy licence builds the Type 26s and we can increase our co-operation, perhaps take the opportunity to invite British forces out to Australia a bit more, do more exercises East of Suez, and so on.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Rakas21
That's nice to hear. If i ever did vote to leave the EU, the first thing i'd want is bilateral treaties with Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA (and Ireland but they'd be included with the EU) for free trade and as close to free movement as we could reasonably get. Trade needs to be improved though, i believe our exports to the 5 countries above (including Ireland) amount to only 20% of exports with new Zealand in particular being woeful. Given that the Netherlands (a relatively small economy) makes up 7% of our exports i do think it's reasonable to push Australia, Canada and New Zealand towards 5% each. Though of course we'll be getting free trade with the USA and Canada very soon.


Australia currently has a free-trade agreement with the US, and I believe is negotiating a free trade agreement with the European Union. If the EU then finalises its free trade agreement with the US, it will create a charmed circle of trade links. With New Zealand's free trade agreement with China, it might create something of an incentive to use NZ as a trading hub for the Asia-Pacific
Reply 44
aboriginals are Australian as are eskimos Canadian what's raciest about joining in a union working to improve ourselves together the idea these four countries are white only is not only wrong but raciest you forget Asian and blacks in Britain stop hating white people here
Actually, one of the greatest hopes New Zealanders have because of Britain leaving the EU is that Britain will re-strengthen ties, and increase New Zealanders' rights in Britain. New Zealand (and probably) Australia would be 'up for it' as historically New Zealanders (and Aussies) had much more flexibility in living and travelling to Britain.New Zealand is currently in the midst of an immigration and 'brain gain' crisis, especially from the Pacific Islands, China, and of low skilled workers. Though New Zealanders are wary of so much foreign input, British immigrants would be more welcomed than most and this would be less of an issue. In addition, any teachers, tradies or other skilled immigrant would be welcome.When Britain effectively left the commonwealth, they also culled many rights of those in the commonwealth.However, New Zealand is probably still supportive of a closer relationship as they voted to keep the Union Jack in the flag.That's all I can think of, for now...A New Zealander.
I'm all for a Commonwealth Union for free trade between the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the smaller commonwealth realms (maybe add India for free trade purposes) but it shouldn't be too political. Perhaps issues relating to the monarch that would be decided by the heads of government of respective nations part of the bolc but no more than that. I also don't think there should be a freedom of movement system like the EU. Maybe have freedom of travel for vacation purposes up to three maybe six months, student/young person visas allowing them to stay and work for six months maybe a year and less paper work for skilled migration and student visas but it shouldn't be like some bloke from Devon can move to Melbourne and work as a cafe barista permanently. I would also back a similar deal with the US on this too.
Original post by ScottishBrexitor
I'm all for a Commonwealth Union for free trade between the UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the smaller commonwealth realms (maybe add India for free trade purposes) but it shouldn't be too political. Perhaps issues relating to the monarch that would be decided by the heads of government of respective nations part of the bolc but no more than that. I also don't think there should be a freedom of movement system like the EU. Maybe have freedom of travel for vacation purposes up to three maybe six months, student/young person visas allowing them to stay and work for six months maybe a year and less paper work for skilled migration and student visas but it shouldn't be like some bloke from Devon can move to Melbourne and work as a cafe barista permanently. I would also back a similar deal with the US on this too.


That is exactly all we have now. The monarch and her Governor-Generals have the power to appoint and dissolve parliament and MPs (and other abilities that are somewhere on wikipedia). A New Zealander can get a visa for 6 months that allow them to do part time work in the UK, and New Zealanders can live for up to 6 months without working in the UK (but you still need to prove you are leaving within that time period). But I do agree with the barista/free immigration restraints. But it should be easier for commonwealth citizens to get longer term visas and travel in the UK.

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