LDR chat thread VIII

I know 58 isn't a bad mark, it's just that I'm used to getting around the 65 mark, so it's quite a drop. And I only have to pass this year to get the 2:2 I need for my MA, but I'd begun to get hopeful that I might get close to scraping a first, so this feels like quite a knock.

This is all my own stupid fault. I should have a done a boring but safe essay topic, but instead I decided to do something that sounded really interesting, but that I had no idea about really, and that we hadn't done in seminars yet.

Idiot.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6703

Original post by jeh_jeh

Well, exactly, so it's definitely not the end of the world. :hugs:

I think all parents are like that - I got 69.75% last year (yes, they gave me my average to two decimal places) and my Mum was like, "WHY DIDN'T YOU GET A FIRST?" I didn't have the heart to tell her that a) I basically did and b) I'm not a genius; and while 60-70% is mediocre at school, it's actually excellent at uni!

The fact that people don't recognise this really, really annoys me, especially as an English student. Firsts are really rare in English, never mind high firsts. Ugh, the fact that it's so much easier to get marks in the 80-90 range for people doing science subjects annoys me so much too. I know people studying maths and science that get those marks regularly, but for my subject, it's impossible. /bitter victim of subjective marking

Reply 6704

Zoedotdot

18

Original post by rainbow drops

The fact that people don't recognise this really, really annoys me, especially as an English student. Firsts are really rare in English, never mind high firsts. Ugh, the fact that it's so much easier to get marks in the 80-90 range for people doing science subjects annoys me so much too. I know people studying maths and science that get those marks regularly, but for my subject, it's impossible. /bitter victim of subjective marking

In my department we can't get above 80. It winds me up when I hear about people doing my course at other universities talking about their amazing marks - an amazing mark here is 73/74 and getting very much higher than that is pretty rare.

Reply 6705

jeh_jeh

Original post by rainbow drops

x

Original post by Zoedotdot

x

YES, THIS. Last year I was getting anything from 62-81 (I actually just checked my.warwick out of curiosity - awful memory!), but most of my marks hovered around 68 (and that was working my bum off). And, actually, my sister was just telling me today how her boyfriend (genetics finalist at Liverpool) has written 1,000 words of his dissertation in one day. When I asked her how he'd managed such excellent progress, she said that apparently he'd been writing the methodological elements. We don't get anything like that. The most structural input I've had is "split your dissertation into three chapters"!

I completely understand that science degrees are hard - they are, and I couldn't do them - but I definitely think there's a greater degree of certainty: if you learn and understand everything you can write it in the exam and (theoretically) get 100% (not that learning all that stuff is easy...!). Whereas with any kind of literature work, it's so subjective. It's plain to see in the marking of essays, for example - I've heard of tutors arguing a 10% difference in what mark they think a piece of work should get. That would never happen in science. But it makes me jittery for my finals!

Reply 6706

My mummy came home and made me feel better :love:

Decided to have a cup of tea, a slice of toast and man up and get on with my work. Since I was disappointed with that essay, it seems counter productive to just give up on work full stop :tongue:

Managaed another 500 words, and am going to attempt to get the references done before I go out.

It's my brother's 18th today, so we're going to a Japanese restaurant in town for dinner :smile:

Can't believe my baby brother is 18, in my head he's still about 12 (even though he's over 6ft tall :tongue:

)

Reply 6707

jeh_jeh

[QUOTE='Flo[ProActiv];37210860']
It's my brother's 18th today, so we're going to a Japanese restaurant in town for dinner :smile:

Can't believe my baby brother is 18, in my head he's still about 12 (even though he's over 6ft tall :tongue:

)

My baby-est (there are three of them in total) sister is sixteen on Saturday. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?! SHE'S STARTING SIXTH FORM IN SEPTEMBER. In my head, she's still fourteen.

Happy birthday to your brother!

Reply 6708

Original post by jeh_jeh

My baby-est (there are three of them in total) sister is sixteen on Saturday. HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?! SHE'S STARTING SIXTH FORM IN SEPTEMBER. In my head, she's still fourteen.

Happy birthday to your brother!

Seriously, who gave our babies permission to grow up?! I WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT THIS!

Happy birthday to your sister too :smile:

Reply 6709

Original post by Zoedotdot

In my department we can't get above 80. It winds me up when I hear about people doing my course at other universities talking about their amazing marks - an amazing mark here is 73/74 and getting very much higher than that is pretty rare.

We can get above 80% but no one ever does, and I think it's generally agreed that any English essay which is awarded anything above 85ish is of publishable standard (at York it is, anyway), hence why no one ever manages it. I even had a tutor in second year that read the mark scheme out to us and basically disregarded the 80-90 section and above. The very highest mark I've heard of someone getting in my year is 78, but when people get firsts, they tend to hover at the lower end. My highest is 74.

What annoys me the most is when people studying science subjects that get, like, 80-100% all the time, sneer at humanities subjects and our marks. Urgh, they have absolutely no idea.

edit: I also think that uneven marking from university to university is a problem; when I was in first year, none of us were getting anything above about 62 for months, but my friend (who was an English first year at Leeds at the time) said that quite a lot of people in her year were already doing really well. Seems like my department is very harsh on marking at times. There's nothing that can be done about that, really, but it kind of sucks.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6710

New...Romantic

16

Ouch. I'm away to just learn everything in my notes so I can regurgitate it in the exam...

I get that you're just moaning about your own courses but there's no point comparing. Sciences and arts are different, different courses at the same uni are different, the same course at different unis is different.

[QUOTE='Flo[ProActiv];37210860']My mummy came home and made me feel better :love:

Decided to have a cup of tea, a slice of toast and man up and get on with my work. Since I was disappointed with that essay, it seems counter productive to just give up on work full stop :tongue:

Managaed another 500 words, and am going to attempt to get the references done before I go out.

It's my brother's 18th today, so we're going to a Japanese restaurant in town for dinner :smile:

Can't believe my baby brother is 18, in my head he's still about 12 (even though he's over 6ft tall :tongue:

)

Glad you're feeling better :smile:

Aw happy birthday to him. My sister's 18 next week, don't know whether to get her a present or just offer to take her to TGIs or something now she can drink.

Reply 6711

jeh_jeh

[QUOTE='Flo[ProActiv];37211181']Seriously, who gave our babies permission to grow up?! I WAS NOT CONSULTED ABOUT THIS!

Happy birthday to your sister too :smile:

I KNOW. I demand a refund, or something. It's actually quite scary - I was allowed to learn to drive (you can start at 16 if you're disabled) when I was her age. ~~I'm glad she's not.~~

Original post by rainbow drops

What annoys me the most is when people studying science subjects that get, like, 80-100% all the time, sneer at humanities subjects and our marks. Urgh, they have absolutely no idea.

edit: I also think that uneven marking from university to university is a problem; when I was in first year, none of us were getting anything above about 62 for months, but my friend (who was an English first year at Leeds at the time) said that quite a lot of people in her year were already doing really well. Seems like my department is very harsh on marking at times. There's nothing that can be done about that, really, but it kind of sucks.

It doesn't help that all my Maths/Physics friends are also ridiculously clever (as in, funded PhD offers from Oxbridge clever), and so they get those kinds of marks with ease. I'm not sure what the average is if you're not a genius... it makes me feel so stupid. :colondollar:

I think our department is audited sometimes, but since different departments have different ways of marking (I know, for example, that the French department look for different things in a piece of work marked at x% compared to Italian) there really is no way of standardisation.

Original post by New...Romantic

Ouch. I'm away to just learn everything in my notes so I can regurgitate it in the exam...

I get that you're just moaning about your own courses but there's no point comparing. Sciences and arts are different, different courses at the same uni are different, the same course at different unis is different.

I've managed to put my foot in it again. :colondollar:

And I wasn't referring anyone, or to a particular course (I don't know enough about them, for a start!). I also wasn't comparing per se - I'm not assigning value judgements (I already said there's no hope in hell of me ever graduating in anything vaguely mathematical or scientific!) - rather saying that humanities subjects, especially literature, can be so subjective, and that science subjects tend to be more fact-based (you either know the answer or you don't). I actually watched a video excerpt in which Ian McEwan was talking about how he managed to interpret his own book "incorrectly", and that his son's 'A'-Level tutors didn't agree. If the author of a book can't help his son get an A in an essay, what hope do the rest of us unenlightened souls have?! :p:

---

My sister baked heart-shaped chocolate sponge cakes for her friends to take into school tomorrow as an early birthday thing, and we chopped them in half and sandwiched red butter cream icing between them, and the red has managed to get everywhere. I am such a child when it comes to baking!

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6712

^^^ ditto - I wasn't saying all science subjects are is regurgitation (I mean, I'm rubbish at maths and science, so who am I to judge?) but the fact is that if you get all the answers correct in BSc exams then you will do well, but for the likes of English and History, one tutor might mark an essay at a 64 and another might want to give it a 70. Subjective marking has an absolutely huge impact on humanities degree marks and is an incredibly frustrating thing to have to deal with, and to my complete annoyance, some of my friends studying a science degree don't grasp that at all.

Reply 6713

Stray_talk

To play devil's advocate (I did a humanities degree) but why would they? They don't do humanities, they don't have to worry about subjectivity (as much), it's not part of their degree so they wouldn't see it.
Aren't there many conflicting viewpoints in the sciences? I'd argue that with certain things, there is no one way.

Reply 6714

Original post by Stray_talk

To play devil's advocate (I did a humanities degree) but why would they? They don't do humanities, they don't have to worry about subjectivity (as much), it's not part of their degree so they wouldn't see it.
Aren't there many conflicting viewpoints in the sciences? I'd argue that with certain things, there is no one way.

Why would they question the subjectivity thing, you mean? They don't do it all the time, obviously, but I can think of a couple of conversations we've had about how our degrees are going when people doing humanities courses have expressed frustration about marking, and science students who aren't as familar with the horribly frustrating way in which our essays are marked have questioned how marking can be unfair. It's not unfair, but it is fundamentally flawed, as different tutors have different preferences which will impact how they mark essays, and some always mark more harshly than others. The best example I have is how I had one tutor mark me down for not being decisive enough in one argument, and then an essay or two later, I was marked down again by someone else for being too decisive. It's beyond, beyond frustrating, and seeing science students able to reach very high marks is kind of frustrating too, sometimes :redface:

it's nothing against their degrees at all, but it is frustrating. I have one friend that gets over 85 in pretty much everything, and for me, that's quite literally impossible.

I'm just in a bit of a mood about it all atm, because I'm currently working so hard on essays and revision, but I know for a fact that subjective, inconsistent marking will affect my results in some way and it sucks. It seems like near enough my whole year feels the same way.

(edited 12 years ago)

Reply 6715

Stray_talk

Original post by rainbow drops

Why would they question the subjectivity thing, you mean? They don't do it all the time, obviously, but I can think of a couple of conversations we've had about how our degrees are going when people doing humanities courses have expressed frustration about marking, and science students who aren't as familar with the horribly frustrating way in which our essays are marked have questioned how marking can be unfair. It's not unfair, but it is fundamentally flawed, as different tutors have different preferences which will impact how they mark essays, and some always mark more harshly than others. The best example I have is how I had one tutor mark me down for not being decisive enough in one argument, and then an essay or two later, I was marked down again by someone else for being too decisive. It's beyond, beyond frustrating, and seeing science students able to reach very high marks is kind of frustrating too, sometimes :redface:

it's nothing against their degrees at all, but it is frustrating. I have one friend that gets over 85 in pretty much everything, and for me, that's quite literally impossible.

I'm just in a bit of a mood about it all atm, because I'm currently working so hard on essays and revision, but I know for a fact that subjective, inconsistent marking will affect my results in some way and it sucks. It seems like near enough my whole year feels the same way.

I understand what you are saying but they are two different areas. To compare how things are done isn't really possible, surely? The fields, methods etc are fundamentally different.
Personally, I don't think it's necessarily right to be comparing the two.

Reply 6716

Original post by Stray_talk

I understand what you are saying but they are two different areas. To compare how things are done isn't really possible, surely? The fields, methods etc are fundamentally different.
Personally, I don't think it's necessarily right to be comparing the two.

I'm not seriously comparing them, more expressing jealousy than anything else :biggrin:

it would be nice to receive grades without wondering how the hell your work was marked the way it was, that's all, but I know that's basically impossible for my subject.

Reply 6717

hbandtr4eva

At Essex the highest mark you could get was 80 but we still had the same grade boundaries as the other departments which scored out of 100. This means that in order for me to get a first I had to get at least 70/80 but all other departments had to get 70/100. Completely unfair :frown:

Reply 6718

Sephrenia

16

Original post by Stray_talk

I understand what you are saying but they are two different areas. To compare how things are done isn't really possible, surely? The fields, methods etc are fundamentally different.
Personally, I don't think it's necessarily right to be comparing the two.

PRSOM...

I've had the Humanities v Science debate far too many times, and it always ends up with agreeing to disagree.

(For the record, I had to write essays for my maths, and god that was horrible. Mathematicians + Grammar do not mix, and 20% of the marks were on grammar and structure :frown:

)

Reply 6719