Why Students Should Distrust State Education
A state school is a product of our social system. Therefore state school is ultimately designed to produce citizens who will be productive yet dependent members of the system (Someone who will always require a regular paycheck from a company or institution to adequately sustain themselves). It is in no way intended or designed to promote the mindset required for an individual to advance to a position where they can exist outside or beyond the system (Someone who has acquired enough wealth or positional authority to have independent control over their financial future). This is not by any sort of conspiracy, but simply the natural progression of an educational system provided by society for the purpose to benefit society. There are always exceptions, but I have never attended or encountered a state school that encouraged "individual thought" amongst the majority of it's student body.
With private schools education is a business. Fortunately the best business' are the ones that produce the best products. In this case the best product is the right sort of education. When it comes to exams, often "good" state and private schools have similar results. Exams only reflect academics, and that is mostly all a standard state school is designed to provide. The reason many state schools seem like mere exam factories is because they are, by design. Academics are usually necessary, but far from the most important element of personal success. The right private schools are so much more. The best examples I've seen involve their students in leadership, mentorship, innovation, facing adversity, networking, arts, culture, community, etc.. Most importantly the right private schools promote it's students to think beyond the system. State schools don't teach that because they are interested in the masses, and such ideas and behavior are not beneficial to society when exhibited by the masses. It is a state school’s function to promote the status quo. The right private schools promote exceptionalism.
This is not an argument for eliminating the private school option. Many would like to argue that this disparity facilitates social inequality. I however can’t conceive of an alternative that wouldn’t perpetrate an even greater injustice against our liberty to utilize our personal resources as we see fit. I would prefer to not waste time considering the fairness of it all, and instead focus my energy on using every available resource to obtain the best private education for myself and my children. If this ambition proved to be unobtainable, as it certainly would for some, I would seek provide the right education myself as best I could to address the areas that state schools deliberately neglect.
I went to state schools and I quickly developed a distrust and skepticism for the overall curriculum which has served me well. I would advise all students, especially those who attend a state school, to consider yourself to be solely responsible for your proper education. At least that is the advice I would give to those few who expect more from their career than a 9-5 obligation, and a decent salary.
With private schools education is a business. Fortunately the best business' are the ones that produce the best products. In this case the best product is the right sort of education. When it comes to exams, often "good" state and private schools have similar results. Exams only reflect academics, and that is mostly all a standard state school is designed to provide. The reason many state schools seem like mere exam factories is because they are, by design. Academics are usually necessary, but far from the most important element of personal success. The right private schools are so much more. The best examples I've seen involve their students in leadership, mentorship, innovation, facing adversity, networking, arts, culture, community, etc.. Most importantly the right private schools promote it's students to think beyond the system. State schools don't teach that because they are interested in the masses, and such ideas and behavior are not beneficial to society when exhibited by the masses. It is a state school’s function to promote the status quo. The right private schools promote exceptionalism.
This is not an argument for eliminating the private school option. Many would like to argue that this disparity facilitates social inequality. I however can’t conceive of an alternative that wouldn’t perpetrate an even greater injustice against our liberty to utilize our personal resources as we see fit. I would prefer to not waste time considering the fairness of it all, and instead focus my energy on using every available resource to obtain the best private education for myself and my children. If this ambition proved to be unobtainable, as it certainly would for some, I would seek provide the right education myself as best I could to address the areas that state schools deliberately neglect.
I went to state schools and I quickly developed a distrust and skepticism for the overall curriculum which has served me well. I would advise all students, especially those who attend a state school, to consider yourself to be solely responsible for your proper education. At least that is the advice I would give to those few who expect more from their career than a 9-5 obligation, and a decent salary.
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Original post by ckingalt
A state school is a product of our social system. Therefore state school is ultimately designed to produce citizens who will be productive yet dependent members of the system (Someone who will always require a regular paycheck from a company or institution to adequately sustain themselves). It is in no way intended or designed to promote the mindset required for an individual to advance to a position where they can exist outside or beyond the system (Someone who has acquired enough wealth or positional authority to have independent control over their financial future). This is not by any sort of conspiracy, but simply the natural progression of an educational system provided by society for the purpose to benefit society. There are always exceptions, but I have never attended or encountered a state school that encouraged "individual thought" amongst the majority of it's student body.
With private schools education is a business. Fortunately the best business' are the ones that produce the best products. In this case the best product is the right sort of education. When it comes to exams, often "good" state and private schools have similar results. Exams only reflect academics, and that is mostly all a standard state school is designed to provide. The reason many state schools seem like mere exam factories is because they are, by design. Academics are usually necessary, but far from the most important element of personal success. The right private schools are so much more. The best examples I've seen involve their students in leadership, mentorship, innovation, facing adversity, networking, arts, culture, community, etc.. Most importantly the right private schools promote it's students to think beyond the system. State schools don't teach that because they are interested in the masses, and such ideas and behavior are not beneficial to society when exhibited by the masses. It is a state school’s function to promote the status quo. The right private schools promote exceptionalism.
This is not an argument for eliminating the private school option. Many would like to argue that this disparity facilitates social inequality. I however can’t conceive of an alternative that wouldn’t perpetrate an even greater injustice against our liberty to utilize our personal resources as we see fit. I would prefer to not waste time considering the fairness of it all, and instead focus my energy on using every available resource to obtain the best private education for myself and my children. If this ambition proved to be unobtainable, as it certainly would for some, I would seek provide the right education myself as best I could to address the areas that state schools deliberately neglect.
I went to state schools and I quickly developed a distrust and skepticism for the overall curriculum which has served me well. I would advise all students, especially those who attend a state school, to consider yourself to be solely responsible for your proper education. At least that is the advice I would give to those few who expect more from their career than a 9-5 obligation, and a decent salary.
With private schools education is a business. Fortunately the best business' are the ones that produce the best products. In this case the best product is the right sort of education. When it comes to exams, often "good" state and private schools have similar results. Exams only reflect academics, and that is mostly all a standard state school is designed to provide. The reason many state schools seem like mere exam factories is because they are, by design. Academics are usually necessary, but far from the most important element of personal success. The right private schools are so much more. The best examples I've seen involve their students in leadership, mentorship, innovation, facing adversity, networking, arts, culture, community, etc.. Most importantly the right private schools promote it's students to think beyond the system. State schools don't teach that because they are interested in the masses, and such ideas and behavior are not beneficial to society when exhibited by the masses. It is a state school’s function to promote the status quo. The right private schools promote exceptionalism.
This is not an argument for eliminating the private school option. Many would like to argue that this disparity facilitates social inequality. I however can’t conceive of an alternative that wouldn’t perpetrate an even greater injustice against our liberty to utilize our personal resources as we see fit. I would prefer to not waste time considering the fairness of it all, and instead focus my energy on using every available resource to obtain the best private education for myself and my children. If this ambition proved to be unobtainable, as it certainly would for some, I would seek provide the right education myself as best I could to address the areas that state schools deliberately neglect.
I went to state schools and I quickly developed a distrust and skepticism for the overall curriculum which has served me well. I would advise all students, especially those who attend a state school, to consider yourself to be solely responsible for your proper education. At least that is the advice I would give to those few who expect more from their career than a 9-5 obligation, and a decent salary.
As soon as you go to university, you ARE solely responsible for your education, whether you want to or not. Let people enjoy their younger years being cared for by the system.
Original post by ckingalt
Fortunately the best business' are the ones that produce the best products.
WRONG.
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
Original post by WelshBluebird
WRONG.
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
I will concede this point. You are correct
Original post by WelshBluebird
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
Private school still provides the best option if you trust your own judgement. You get to chose which private facility you deem the best. I went to state school. My children currently attend private schools. There really is no comparison. The difference is quite staggering actually.
Original post by ckingalt
Private school still provides the best option if you trust your own judgement. You get to chose which private facility you deem the best. I went to state school. My children currently attend private schools. There really is no comparison. The difference is quite staggering actually.
Private school still provides the best option if you trust your own judgement. You get to chose which private facility you deem the best. I went to state school. My children currently attend private schools. There really is no comparison. The difference is quite staggering actually.
Of course, that is if you can afford it though. And if you live close enough to one.
And it really depends too. Some private schools really aren't that great at all in comparison to some of the really excellent state schools around the place.
Original post by WelshBluebird
WRONG.
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
Well profits depend on results in this case; stop nitpicking.
OP:
I concur; at Primary school I recieved about as much brain washing as I did education.
Original post by ckingalt
A state school is a product of our social system. Therefore state school is ultimately designed to produce citizens who will be productive yet dependent members of the system (Someone who will always require a regular paycheck from a company or institution to adequately sustain themselves). It is in no way intended or designed to promote the mindset required for an individual to advance to a position where they can exist outside or beyond the system (Someone who has acquired enough wealth or positional authority to have independent control over their financial future). This is not by any sort of conspiracy, but simply the natural progression of an educational system provided by society for the purpose to benefit society. There are always exceptions, but I have never attended or encountered a state school that encouraged "individual thought" amongst the majority of it's student body.
Of course not. We are getting it free. Teaching quality is usually less, money for activities and one-on-one time is less.
State schools are not 'designed' to be this, thats just how they are due to multiple constraints.
State school studnets have been shown to do better at University than private school students, so to say they aren't given the mindset to live better is ridiculous.
The reason many state schools seem like mere exam factories is because they are, by design. Academics are usually necessary, but far from the most important element of personal success. The right private schools are so much more.
Other way around. Private schools are a lot more about exam results, hence the above point.. state school students do better at University, and why people pay so much for it.. because it produces results.
The best examples I've seen involve their students in leadership, mentorship, innovation, facing adversity, networking, arts, culture, community, etc.. Most importantly the right private schools promote it's students to think beyond the system. State schools don't teach that because they are interested in the masses, and such ideas and behavior are not beneficial to society when exhibited by the masses.
Failing to understand what you are rambling on about
Private schools get more money thus can afford to do a lot more.. thats the simple fact.
State schools aren't 'only interested in masses' by any means
. they just lack the funding to provide the right resources to provide best for every student.I went to state schools and I quickly developed a distrust and skepticism for the overall curriculum which has served me well. I would advise all students, especially those who attend a state school, to consider yourself to be solely responsible for your proper education. At least that is the advice I would give to those few who expect more from their career than a 9-5 obligation, and a decent salary.
Why would they think they aren't responsible for it... ..... .. ?
Original post by PendulumBoB
Well profits depend on results in this case; stop nitpicking.
No they do not.
There is probably a loose correlation, but certainly profits do not depend on results.
Indeed, the thing profits generally depend on is simply location. Those in the south east of England charge much higher fees than those elsewhere. Even taking into account the increased cost of being based in that area, you are still talking huge amounts more profit just because of where they are.
Reputation is also a huge factor. Places like Eton would not charge less, if for some reason they happened to get worse results for a few years.
Original post by WelshBluebird
No they do not.
There is probably a loose correlation, but certainly profits do not depend on results.
Indeed, the thing profits generally depend on is simply location. Those in the south east of England charge much higher fees than those elsewhere. Even taking into account the increased cost of being based in that area, you are still talking huge amounts more profit just because of where they are.
Reputation is also a huge factor. Places like Eton would not charge less, if for some reason they happened to get worse results for a few years.
There is probably a loose correlation, but certainly profits do not depend on results.
Indeed, the thing profits generally depend on is simply location. Those in the south east of England charge much higher fees than those elsewhere. Even taking into account the increased cost of being based in that area, you are still talking huge amounts more profit just because of where they are.
Reputation is also a huge factor. Places like Eton would not charge less, if for some reason they happened to get worse results for a few years.
A correlation nonetheless.
The location is probably due to the amount of money people have and so are willing to spend. If Eton consistently failed prices would go down, afterall results are what got it to where it is today.
Original post by ckingalt
Private school still provides the best option if you trust your own judgement. You get to chose which private facility you deem the best. I went to state school. My children currently attend private schools. There really is no comparison. The difference is quite staggering actually.
I have to wholly disagree. I used to work with a lady from the states who moved over to the UK. Her two sons attend a prestigious private school here.
You argue that private schools promote individualism. In this case, absolutely not.
Her sons were very interested in wrestling and had wrestled all their lives. They routinely shaved their heads (as wrestlers tend to do) and were told by the school that they would be suspended if they ever cut their hair in that 'inappropriate manner' again, and called their mother into school to 'discuss their actions'.
Individualism? Try dictatorship.
One of her sons said his psychology teacher didn't know the course that well at all - she had to ring up the school and get him to switch classes.
So, I asked if she'd recommend the school. She said she thought private schools were nothing more than segregating certain individuals and almost 'brainwashing' them to behaviour in a certain way, dare I say a sophisticated way.
I attend a state school and would not want it any other way. It doesn't matter what kind of job you get when you're older, you are still going to have to live in the real world. A world outside the bubble of private school. A world that isn't as easy as a private school. And real people live in the real world - people that attend state schools.
(edited 12 years ago)
I have to point out that my colleague attended a private school and I attended a state school. He has straight C's at GCSE and BBC at A-Level. I have straight B's at GCSE and ABB at A-Level. We both attend the same University. I have grasped things quite quickly whereas he struggles when he is not spoon fed the answers by the teacher. Who is the better product for the teaching profession? That last part was rhetorical.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Original post by WelshBluebird
WRONG.
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
The "best" businesses are those that make the most money.
That is sometimes, but certainly not always, linked to the best products.
So simply, because private schools are out there to make money, they will do anything they can to make money. That would include putting the education of the pupils at risk. So really, you should also distrust private education (as you do not know you are getting the best, you could easily just be getting whatever makes the most money).
I know that was addressed to the OP regarding a specific point he made, but your is equally frivolous.
Businesses that don't sell a good product do sometimes succeed. However - usually their success is short lived, i.e. consumers discover faults etc and the brand is then deserted. This doesn't apply to private schools - majority of which have been around for hundreds of years. Similarly, businesses with inadequate products usually fail to entice the rich. Having a lot of money allows rich people to shop around. Be it private schools or electronic gadgets. So unless they deliberately choose a **** private school, which I very much doubt as it completely defeats the purpose, they are unlikely to be victims of a ****ty private school education.
I say this without ever having set foot in a private school. Also I agree with both of you that you shouldn't 'trust' your education, where ever it comes from. Taking responsibility from a younger age will more than likely ensure academic success.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Mr. Approachable
I have to point out that my colleague attended a private school and I attended a state school. He has straight C's at GCSE and BBC at A-Level. I have straight B's at GCSE and ABB at A-Level. We both attend the same University. I have grasped things quite quickly whereas he struggles when he is not spoon fed the answers by the teacher. Who is the better product for the teaching profession? That last part was rhetorical.
You're more intelligent but he had better opportunities to even things out until the playing field was levelled. He may have benefited on other ways (attitude-wise or whatever).
Original post by cocacola2
Businesses that don't sell a good product do sometimes succeed.
Businesses that don't sell a good product do sometimes succeed.
I (or the OP) didn't say anything about the product being good or not. The point was about the product being the best.
Plenty of companies make very large profits despite their products not being the best out there. Indeed, quite often this is because they are more affordable to people. Profits are not just about having the best thing. They are about being able to sell it to people (and part of that is the price being low enough).
Original post by PendulumBoB
You're more intelligent but he had better opportunities to even things out until the playing field was levelled. He may have benefited on other ways (attitude-wise or whatever).
I'll admit that he's seen more of the world, but in terms of attitude etc I wouldn't say he has a superior character.
Original post by WelshBluebird
Of course, that is if you can afford it though. And if you live close enough to one.
And it really depends too. Some private schools really aren't that great at all in comparison to some of the really excellent state schools around the place.
And it really depends too. Some private schools really aren't that great at all in comparison to some of the really excellent state schools around the place.
Sure there is always exceptions. Like I said in my opening though, look at more than exam scores. Those are often comparable and there is so much more involved.
No-one needs access to education. Richard Brandon dropped out of school.
Original post by Snagprophet
No-one needs access to education. Richard Brandon dropped out of school.
So because one uneducated person was successful, it follows that education is utterly useless and the reams of data linking educational attainment to future career prospects are all wrong?
Original post by JacobW
So because one uneducated person was successful, it follows that education is utterly useless and the reams of data linking educational attainment to future career prospects are all wrong?
Yes.
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