Has the meeting of the Queen and Martin McGuinness damaged the monarch? POLL
Poll
Do you respect the Queen more or less following her meeting with Martin McGuinness?
Quite simply, has the meeting of the Queen and former IRA commander Martin McGuinness raised or lowered your respect for Her Majesty?
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Well since both sides contributed to the conflict, there is no point in holding grudges which won't benefit either side.
I respect both sides more, now they have decided to forgive and forget.
I respect both sides more, now they have decided to forgive and forget.
Original post by Dubstep Prince
Well since both sides contributed to the conflict, there is no point in holding grudges which won't benefit either side.
I respect both sides more, now they have decided to forgive and forget.
I respect both sides more, now they have decided to forgive and forget.
I'm not sure how many times the British bombed politicians, department stores, public parks, innocent civilians or indeed their own people - perhaps you can fill me in?
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
I'm not sure how many times the British bombed politicians, department stores, public parks, innocent civilians or indeed their own people - perhaps you can fill me in?
And perhaps you could tell me, why the Irish were doing that?
Original post by gladders
I already admired her, so no change here.
What was there to be admired before this? She was born as the heir to the throne. She didn't earn it.
Original post by Dubstep Prince
What was there to be admired before this? She was born as the heir to the throne. She didn't earn it.
Let's not get into that debate here again. There's plenty of other threads already going on that discuss it.
Original post by Dubstep Prince
And perhaps you could tell me, why the Irish were doing that?
Well, how about answering my question rather than being avoidant?
Do you think that there is any way such action is justified? Killing random civilians that just happen to be shopping, working, going about their daily business?
Frankly, whatever the reasons, their actions are completely and wholly indefensible.
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Well, how about answering my question rather than being avoidant?
Do you think that there is any way such action is justified? Killing random civilians that just happen to be shopping, working, going about their daily business?
Frankly, whatever the reasons, their actions are completely and wholly indefensible.
Do you think that there is any way such action is justified? Killing random civilians that just happen to be shopping, working, going about their daily business?
Frankly, whatever the reasons, their actions are completely and wholly indefensible.
Killing is always wrong, I am not saying otherwise.
But the fact the Queen was able to rise above it is commendable.
Or would you prefer the Queen to be immature, and hold grudges?
Original post by Dubstep Prince
Killing is always wrong, I am not saying otherwise.
But the fact the Queen was able to rise above it is commendable.
Or would you prefer the Queen to be immature, and hold grudges?
But the fact the Queen was able to rise above it is commendable.
Or would you prefer the Queen to be immature, and hold grudges?
I think there's a bit of a difference between 'holding a grudge' and associating with a known terrorist that was admittedly involved in an organisation that carried out the murder of a member of your family and many of your citizens.
Think about it seriously. Would you have liked Barack Obama to have a cuddle with Bin Laden in the Oval Office?
I cannot comprehend why you think the Head of State should be fraternising with terrorists.
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
I think there's a bit of a difference between 'holding a grudge' and associating with a known terrorist that was admittedly involved in an organisation that carried out the murder of a member of your family and many of your citizens.
Think about it seriously. Would you have liked Barack Obama to have a cuddle with Bin Laden in the Oval Office?
I cannot comprehend why you think the Head of State should be fraternising with terrorists.
Think about it seriously. Would you have liked Barack Obama to have a cuddle with Bin Laden in the Oval Office?
I cannot comprehend why you think the Head of State should be fraternising with terrorists.
Bin Laden killed 3,000 approx.
America have killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, Afghanistan and indirectly Palestine. If Bin Laden was still alive he would be the reluctant one.
What good would continuing holding a grudge bring? It won't bring back lost lives or help future generations.
I'm not sure why it would make someone respect her less. Any political figure has to face unsavoury characters from time to time, and the Queen is no exception to that. Her role as nominal Head of State means meeting people more than anything else, in order to ensure the best possible relations between countries and groups within the Commonwealth - in other words, meeting with McGuinness is just her doing her job.
Original post by Dubstep Prince
Bin Laden killed 3,000 approx.
America have killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, Afghanistan and indirectly Palestine. If Bin Laden was still alive he would be the reluctant one.
What good would continuing holding a grudge bring? It won't bring back lost lives or help future generations.
America have killed hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq, Afghanistan and indirectly Palestine. If Bin Laden was still alive he would be the reluctant one.
What good would continuing holding a grudge bring? It won't bring back lost lives or help future generations.
Are you seriously suggesting a war is in any way similar to crashing commercial airliners into office buildings?
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
I'm not sure how many times the British bombed politicians, department stores, public parks, innocent civilians or indeed their own people - perhaps you can fill me in?
Lol read up on your Irish history.
Original post by thetobbit
Lol read up on your Irish history.
Please, feel free to tell me specific examples.
Both sides did terrible things, so it is kind of admirable what she has done. However, if Bin Laden was still alive, it is somewhat similar to George Bush meeting up with him for a sit down and a cup of tea, isn't it?
I know that the British did things that made the IRA do what they did, but I was under the impression we didn't give terrorists the time of day?
I know that the British did things that made the IRA do what they did, but I was under the impression we didn't give terrorists the time of day?
As a unionist, I certainly do not respect her any less. Northern Ireland is changing and moving on, and to be honest, I think it's being blown entirely out of proportion. Martin McGuinness is no less a former terrorist for having shaken her hand, nor is he any less of a republican. I feel that he certainly has some astute advisors - Sinn Féin really shot themselves in the foot last year when they refused to meet the Queen when she visited the Republic.
It's certainly good to see that the two can interact on a mutually respectful basis. If Northern Ireland wants to establish itself as a modern, peaceful democracy, then the heads of state (for want of a better word) ought to be able to meet each other with dignity, even if they are diametrically opposed to the other's political views. I am in no way defending Martin McGuinness - but I am glad that he could put aside his personal grudges, simply for a few seconds to show a bit of decency and decorum by shaking the Queen's hand. I do think it was a brave step on the part of the Queen as well - this isn't just a man who was part of an organisation which heaped devastation on Northern Ireland, but this was a man who murdered a member of her family - and innocent people on the same boat.
(did anyone ever ask the Queen if she ever wanted to shake his hand?
)
It's certainly good to see that the two can interact on a mutually respectful basis. If Northern Ireland wants to establish itself as a modern, peaceful democracy, then the heads of state (for want of a better word) ought to be able to meet each other with dignity, even if they are diametrically opposed to the other's political views. I am in no way defending Martin McGuinness - but I am glad that he could put aside his personal grudges, simply for a few seconds to show a bit of decency and decorum by shaking the Queen's hand. I do think it was a brave step on the part of the Queen as well - this isn't just a man who was part of an organisation which heaped devastation on Northern Ireland, but this was a man who murdered a member of her family - and innocent people on the same boat.
(did anyone ever ask the Queen if she ever wanted to shake his hand?
)
Original post by Aspiringlawstudent
Please, feel free to tell me specific examples.
Well, have you watched The Wind that Shakes the Barley?
While it is obviously a movie and thus devoid of total accuracy and inevitably exaggerated, it highlights the English-govt sponsored brutality that took place in early 20th century Ireland.
Peasant families were terrorised by the "black and tans," given the go ahead by the "glorious leader" Churchill. Woman and children were round up outside their homes, abused and often had their homes burned while they watched.
This terrorism in an effort to quell the IRA, obviously only further angered Irish Catholics and many more joined the IRA effort.
Now don't get me wrong, the IRA of modern times was a shadow of that of the early 20th century, a group of thugs who killed innocent civilians, but during this the early 1900 period, it resembled more of a force of ordinary Irish men fighting back against British repression.
From your early posts, I'm assuming your a British monarchist, so how you react to this will be intriguing.
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