64% of UK students studying Computer Science did not study A-level Mathematics...

They start off at smaller firms.

Yes, professional qualifications are the way forward, first degrees hold little value these days. I want to get professional qualifications in finance.

With regards to my uncle, I was just proving that it is easy to move up. He started at a small firm on graduation and has moved to work for one of the biggest companies in the world. The economy will get better, everyone's a bit down at the moment. That's why I think those who are capable of going to uni shouldn't think twice. It will come back to bite you one day in a decade or so when the economy is doing well and you're there mr. nobody who left education at 18. If you don't have a degree and you've got experience against someone with a degree and experience the latter will always be the winner. That B.A. or B.Sc. will have an impact when you want a management position, rest be assured.

I feel the same way about degrees tbh. If you have good AL grades, you should do it for the reason you stated. But I do feel schools should be responsible by not encouraging students who didnt get ABB to go to uni.

Rather they should sit down with the student, figure out why it happened and tell them to fix their marks before applying to university.

Reply 161

fat_hobbit

2

Original post by noone29

Yes, professional qualifications are the way forward, first degrees hold little value these days. I want to get professional qualifications in finance.

When you get your professional qualification without exp, will it go against you?

Reply 162

Dirac Delta Function

14

Original post by fat_hobbit

Where did you study, oxford?

I took minor modules with the maths department where I did do linear algebra. The other things you mentioned, I believe , are taught as part of the course by default.
I agree Oxford is another level to most universities.

No Cambridge.

I did linear algebra as well, lots of places do linear algebra, but m point is, there is maths as taught to physicist/engineers/CS, and there's maths as taught to maths students. They are taught differently.

Typically, Riley, Hobson and Bence will be perfectly sufficient for the vast majority of engineering and physics courses, but it doesn't have the rigour of proper treatment you'd get in maths books written for mathematicians (eg Spivak,Rudin)

Reply 163

noone29

OP

14

Original post by fat_hobbit

When you get your professional qualification without exp, will it go against you?

I personally will get mine by training with a firm at the same time. However, if you study for them independently I can't see how they will be used against you provided that you're not just about exams and that you are happy to learn and not be a know all.

Reply 164

fat_hobbit

2

Original post by Dirac Delta Function

No Cambridge.

I did linear algebra as well, lots of places do linear algebra, but m point is, there is maths as taught to physicist/engineers/CS, and there's maths as taught to maths students. They are taught differently.

Typically, Riley, Hobson and Bence will be perfectly sufficient for the vast majority of engineering and physics courses, but it doesn't have the rigour of proper treatment you'd get in maths books written for mathematicians (eg Spivak,Rudin)

I agree with you; I think nobody here is denying the fact that those who study at "Oxbridge" have a harder syllabus in general; but that is basically the case against many universities and for every subject. I am aware that even against Russell group students, you guys work harder.

Cambridge and Oxford are a cut above the rest. And to be honest, for most graduate jobs, which is why most students go to university, you don't need to be that gifted to do them unless it is something very niche, and specialist at which point - doing a post grad is an option.

You just need to be able and willing to learn.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 165

deathhead

10

I do computer science at University of Birmingham - 4th best in UK I think at the moment (just saying to get past the non-credible degree theory you offered) and they offer an Intro to Maths course for students who haven't done it in fairness - so there's your solution. Also I did A level maths - it doesn't really prove you are gonna be good at comp-sci if you have done well at it - I got a D at AS and an A at A2, when you get used to the questions it's bloody easy. Also, gotta be honest pretty much everything I learnt in C2 C3 C4 M1 have not been used - comp sci is so vaired it's a mainly a much different type of maths and some of comp-sci doesn't need much maths at all.

Reply 166

fat_hobbit

2

Original post by deathhead

I do computer science at University of Birmingham - 4th best in UK I think at the moment (just saying to get past the non-credible degree theory you offered) and they offer an Intro to Maths course for students who haven't done it in fairness - so there's your solution. Also I did A level maths - it doesn't really prove you are gonna be good at comp-sci if you have done well at it - I got a D at AS and an A at A2, when you get used to the questions it's bloody easy. Also, gotta be honest pretty much everything I learnt in C2 C3 C4 M1 have not been used - comp sci is so vaired it's a mainly a much different type of maths and some of comp-sci doesn't need much maths at all.

It was such a long time ago, but the maths on CS was less pure maths, but more statistical based (data mining), and decision/discrete based. I remember matrices and vectors being a massive part in it.

Reply 167

deathhead

10

Original post by fat_hobbit

It was such a long time ago, but the maths on CS was less pure maths, but more statistical based (data mining), and decision/discrete based. I remember matrices and vectors being a massive part in it.

True, that is involved but a lot of that isn't involved in all parts of it, and I don't remember any trig being involved

Reply 168

fat_hobbit

2

Original post by deathhead

True, that is involved but a lot of that isn't involved in all parts of it, and I don't remember any trig being involved

I dont know how your uni work, but at mine - outside the core maths, It depends on what modules you do.

If you do "graphics" for example, you will probably be doing trig.

Reply 169

AncientAliens

3

So right now I'm studying a BTEC Games Art Extended diploma Level 3 course in England. I want to go to Edinburgh to study a computer science course but only have a 'grade A' in GCSE maths(no A-level maths). I am looking to learn programming languages etc. I haven't done any maths since I left secondary school which was July 2012. Do you have any advice for me? Will I get accepted if I apply? I am predicted a DDM at the end of my course which I believe is equivalent to 3 A-levels at grade A.

Reply 170

Zenomorph

3

Original post by ParadoxSocks

I went to Notts uni for CS and it was very maths heavy. Most students had A level maths and we took a maths for CS class in the first year too. Those without A level maths attended additional weekly tutorials and were supported throughout the course. The admissions officers must have decided that they had sufficient talents elsewhere to be able to cope with learning maths alongside the regular content. If anything I think those studying CS without maths are crazy brave.

Also, the only people I know that have graduated with a CS degree and are in well paid graduate job are those from ex-polys. CS is one of those degrees where practical experience of the subject is just as beneficial as academic experience. Don't write the lower table courses off as entirely useless. It's what you make of yourself at uni that matters.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I think this is more or less correct.

Employers won't really care about anything apart from whether you can write the appropriate programs for them.

Whether you do it by heart or from complex maths won't matter a jot.

Reply 171

FinalMH

16

Original post by ofuoko

So right now I'm studying a BTEC Games Art Extended diploma Level 3 course in England. I want to go to Edinburgh to study a computer science course but only have a 'grade A' in GCSE maths(no A-level maths). I am looking to learn programming languages etc. I haven't done any maths since I left secondary school which was July 2012. Do you have any advice for me? Will I get accepted if I apply? I am predicted a DDM at the end of my course which I believe is equivalent to 3 A-levels at grade A.

You picked the wrong qualification to apply for Edinburgh's course. Also DDM is not equivalent to AAA.

Reply 172

419

14

So I want to self teach myself programming/ computer science. Anyone know the best place to turn to?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 173

Et Tu, Brute?

21

Original post by noone29

How on earth do these students cope?? They are either a) attending a poor institution which is dishing out pieces of paper for money (because sorry, without A-level Mathematics, no one will do well in a respectable CompSci degree) or b) struggling appallingly with their subject.
Personally, I think it is more likely to be the former unfortunately, given that the more respected universities request A-level Mathematics as a pre-requisite to any application.
How do we get more kids to take Maths to 18? Perhaps make it compulsory? There are obviously downsides to that, but at a time when many developing countries are far better, as a whole, in Mathematics maybe it's time to bite the bullet and catch up?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23243533

When it comes to STEM degrees, with the emphasis on the engineering side of it (we'll include Comp. Sci. in engineering for simplicity here) you need to remember a few important details.

You'll find more people on these degrees who didn't come straight from school. Many of them will have when into apprenticeships or something similar with large companies or perhaps the military where they will have gained quite a bit of experience.

So when these types of people get to university they tend to be better prepared for the computing side of the degree which allows the university to place them in an introductory mathematics module which brings them up to the required standard for the later years of the degree.

Others will gain a place on level 1 of a computer science degree upon completion of a foundation year (level 0) at the university or sometimes a foundation degree or HND/HNC where they will have studied mathematics.

Obviously the top universities, and by top I mean the 4 or 5 of the leading universities will have few students without a foundation year or A-level maths on the course, but for other universities the students can catch up provided there are two different maths classes.

As for getting more people to study maths post-16, the problem is not the fact that it is currently optional. There is no point in forcing people to do something when they have other priorities (their other A-levels). All that will happen is the compulsory maths will take a back seat and nobody will give a **** about it, it will be like general studies or key skills, the only difference is it will be harder and as nobody cares about it, few students will pass it. So it will be a waste of time and money for everyone.

What needs to change is the mathematical education at primary level.

We have these idiot politicians in government, who at least release the problem, are attempting to fix it from the top down, not from the grass roots level. This is the problem when you have people in charge of something who have entered at the top as opposed to working their way up. They will see the problem from their elevated height, but not the source of it.

There is no reason why primary level students cannot be taught the maths that first, second or maybe even third years study (I think that is Year 7, 8 and 9 in England). By focusing more on the fundamentals at grass roots level only then can real improvements be made post-KS3. By making such improvements, but keeping the qualifications at the same standard, you'd likely see more students taking at least AS-level mathematics (the ones who wouldn't have bothered taking it at all) and more taking further maths (the ones who would have taken just A-level maths) and then more taking STEP exams (the ones who would have other wise taken A-level and FM but not STEP).

Fair enough the last part is conjecture but I think it is a fair prediction.

Yet this incompetent Secretary of State for Education, Gove, seems to think that making the content harder at GCSE level is somehow going to produce students comparable to the Asian nations.

It really makes me angry to see such incompetence handling the future of education. He is expecting to see results in a short time period, he wants a quick fix. What he should be doing is being patient with it and starting from primary, or indeed nursery school level and reaping the benefits in 1.5-2 decades.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 174

AncientAliens

3

Will I need to have studied ICT/maths A-levels to be accepted at Edinburgh? So I can't go into the programming field & will have to stick with the art field? If so I'll just learn code online

Reply 175

Et Tu, Brute?

21

Original post by ofuoko

Will I need to have studied ICT/maths A-levels to be accepted at Edinburgh? So I can't go into the programming field & will have to stick with the art field? If so I'll just learn code online

No idea about Edinburgh specifically, though there are computer science foundation years that you can do that automatically get you a place in year 1 of the course if you pass the year 0.

Reply 176

Aristotle's' Disciple

19

Original post by 419

So I want to self teach myself programming/ computer science. Anyone know the best place to turn to?

Posted from TSR Mobile

I'm learning Python at the moment, my resources are several very large books, the internet and a Comp Sci graduate :p:

But the books are all you need really imo

Reply 177

Aristotle's' Disciple

19

Original post by Et Tu, Brute?

It really makes me angry to see such incompetence handling the future of education. He is expecting to see results in a short time period, he wants a quick fix. What he should be doing is being patient with it and starting from primary, or indeed nursery school level and reaping the benefits in 1.5-2 decades.

I suppose you could argue the GCSE system needed a shake up regardless, it's pretty **** in it's current state :p:

But yes, it should definitely be rebuilt from the ground up, not like this.

Reply 178

Fenrirs_space

9

Comp sci at Uni of Nottingham with no maths A level here (or any A levels in fact - BTEC in software development), problem ? :colone:

Is it hard? Yes

Do I work hard?

Yes...

Well, harder than I've seen a lot of other people here work. I still have my fun :tongue:

I admit, the maths side of things is a slight struggle at times. But then, some of my friends are bad at the programming, or not so good at report writing as I am. It's all just strengths and weaknesses.