Post arguments against vegetarianism/veganism, please!

Does raising a creature in good conditions give you the right, or make it moral, to then kill it for food? Should its death not be, to the greatest degree possible, a natural one? We apply this to humans, and the only thing that distinguishes us from animals is intelligence.

If you're religious; by the grace of God. If you're not; by the indisputable evidence that we are the 'top' of the food chain through our superior intelligence.

Reasons against vegetarianism? It's a perversion of nature. Everything, from our teeth to our primal behaviour to our digestive system, is geared towards omnivorousness.

Nature has no intent, so "perverting nature" is a meaningless phrase.

I believe that no-one has the right to be the first to condemn an act, other than someone directly affected by it. Even if that someone doesn't actually exist but is only a hypothetical possibility, what they would think and feel about the matter should be the basis for what everyone else thinks.

Everything about our digestive system and mouth is geared towards meat eating...we've either evolved to this or been intelligently designed (lol) in such a way.

It's harder to get good quality protein if you're a vegan or vegetarian.

Eating protein helps make you alpha. Let's face it, who wants to be a skinny beta who eats carbs all day?

So you can see the dilemma.

How do you know these animals want to keep on living? It's extremely controversial as to whether animals even have a developed sense of self-concept.

Allergies to pulses and/or soya products lead to a very limited options as far as protein consumption is concerned.

Do you think they want to die? Or do you think they don't care either way?

Stop pretending to be a guy.

What give nature the right, if any, over us humans to kill?

Would you not say that because we are intelligent, and have more options as to what we eat, we are morally responsible for our actions regarding this matter in a way that a lion or shark wouldn't be?

Would you not say that because we are intelligent, and have more options as to what we eat, we are morally responsible for our actions regarding this matter in a way that a lion or shark wouldn't be?

It's getting rather philosophical isn't it?

I think that when they don't even have a true sense of self concept, the notions of existence, life and death are totally beyond them. Their instinct to survive is, in my opinion, precisely that - an instinct. The fight against death is just a primal urge of self preservation; so why should one animal's primal instinct be more important than another?

Well I personally don't believe that killing is always immoral. I don't think intelligence comes into the debate. Just because somebody is vegetarian, it does not make them any more intelligent than a meat eater, or anymore morally responsible.

A cow is a vegetarian, does that make it more intelligent than a Dolphin? No.

If X leads to Y it doesn't mean that Y leads to X, I know that.
Are cows not herbivores? Vegetarianism is something that practically only applies to humans does it not?

I was talking about intelligence as a general human trait relative to animals. I was not talking about it's variation among humans. The intelligence to know that a creature most likely doesn't want to be killed, and the intelligence to take advantage of and create alternatives is what I was referring to.

Why should a human's primal urge to survive be more important than that of an animal's, unless one is attacking the other etc.?

I asked earlier: How does being 'designed' to do something make doing it right? Are there not people who are 'designed' to be immoral?

We're part of nature, just a radically more advanced form, if a species naturally wiped out an ecosystem, that's apparently fine, but if it involves humans, its suddenly abhorrent. Although unlike most other species we are at least aware of our actions and can actively bypass our natural instincts , hence the reason vegetarianism and veganism exist in the first place. Plus no other species has tried space travel yet, so when we leave the Earth we can take other species with us, whereas they would be powerless and ignorant of their impending doom. If humans didn't exist I feel nature would be awfully boring.