Labour party will not be giving an EU referendum

I'm largely neutral on the matter because while i agree that the pro-EU side would win (above 60% actually) i don't really see why there needs to be a referendum. If people want out of the EU above all else then they can vote Ukip, that's the beauty of a representative democracy.

I see a different option other than representative democracy. If people want out of the EU they can **** off to another country...

Reply 81

silverbolt

19

Original post by Blueray2

And their views are too one sided formed from a right wing press. Ask any of them to name as many benefits as criticisms they will not be able to. A level of balance has to be reached to effect something as vital as the EU.

Why is it vital? Everyone managed quite well without before it was formed and now its a case of a few countries trying desperately to save other countries from drowning. And i was speak as a native of one of those countries that was/is drowning and now held by the balls by the EU

Reply 82

limetang

19

Then I will not be voting labour. I don't have an absolute view on the EU at the moment, but I'm not voting for a party that is basically saying it doesn't trust the people to make the 'right' decision on the EU.

Reply 83

User995789

14

Original post by silverbolt

Why is it vital? Everyone managed quite well without before it was formed and now its a case of a few countries trying desperately to save other countries from drowning. And i was speak as a native of one of those countries that was/is drowning and now held by the balls by the EU

Economic, social and environmental reasons fundamentally. Its been far too integrated and businesses interlinked to come out, without serious repercussions.

Reply 84

Tubby Isaacs

Original post by limetang

Then I will not be voting labour. I don't have an absolute view on the EU at the moment, but I'm not voting for a party that is basically saying it doesn't trust the people to make the 'right' decision on the EU.

So what? You're not trusted to have a vote personally on anything.

I'd rather have had one on fiscal policy, but didn't get one. Instead, we got a Coalition doing what they wanted even though one of them had campaigned on a completely different policy re the cuts.

Reply 85

Tubby Isaacs

Original post by will2348

But what about those who aren't clueless about the EU and still want to vote out? So all euro-sceptic MPs are clueless about the EU? Just a thought.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Yep, entirely clueless.

You leave the EU but still want to trade in the single market, you obey EU law and pay for the privilege, and have to admit to your country virtually the same people anyway. Yet you have virtually no say on those laws.

Switzerland has 2 more years with Bulgarians than we do.

Reply 86

limetang

19

Original post by Tubby Isaacs

So what? You're not trusted to have a vote personally on anything.

I'd rather have had one on fiscal policy, but didn't get one. Instead, we got a Coalition doing what they wanted even though one of them had campaigned on a completely different policy re the cuts.

True, we don't have a direct democracy. So to be honest we shouldn't have referendums at all. My problem is that labour isn't anti-referendum per say, it's anti THIS referendum. That's what I have the problem with. Do say if I'm not being completely clear.

Reply 87

Quady

20

Original post by limetang

Then I will not be voting labour. I don't have an absolute view on the EU at the moment, but I'm not voting for a party that is basically saying it doesn't trust the people to make the 'right' decision on the EU.

Would you vote for a party which doesn't trust the people to make the 'right' decision on the death penalty?

Reply 88

Quady

20

Original post by Tubby Isaacs

Yep, entirely clueless.

You leave the EU but still want to trade in the single market, you obey EU law and pay for the privilege, and have to admit to your country virtually the same people anyway. Yet you have virtually no say on those laws.

Switzerland has 2 more years with Bulgarians than we do.

But you do't pay for the CAP or Brussels and lose 1/27th of the say on the laws.

Reply 89

SciFiRory

16

Original post by limetang

Then I will not be voting labour. I don't have an absolute view on the EU at the moment, but I'm not voting for a party that is basically saying it doesn't trust the people to make the 'right' decision on the EU.

why don't you care about all the other things we don't get a say on then?

Reply 90

TheLoveDoctor

9

Original post by uktotalgamer

I see a different option other than representative democracy. If people want out of the EU they can **** off to another country...

so the majority of people in this country should be expected to leave? what about everybody against the current government? what about the people who were being oppressed back in the older centuries of english history?

Reply 91

GMT

11

Some British parties want to organise a referendum concerning abandoning the EU?

Reply 92

Rakas21

21

Original post by GMT

Some British parties want to organise a referendum concerning abandoning the EU?

Ukip are the only one of the main 5 that actually wants one, the Tory leadership is being forced to support one and the Libs/Labs/Greens are all pretty much opposed.

Reply 93

GMT

11

Original post by Rakas21

Ukip are the only one of the main 5 that actually wants one, the Tory leadership is being forced to support one and the Libs/Labs/Greens are all pretty much opposed.

Ok, I guess they wont be able to do a referendum without the parliaments approval. Yet, what are the arguments for leaving the EU?

Reply 94

Rakas21

21

Original post by GMT

Ok, I guess they wont be able to do a referendum without the parliaments approval. Yet, what are the arguments for leaving the EU?

The Tories have a bill going through the Lords now to legislate for 2017 but a Labour government post-2015 could simply repeal it.

Primarily sovereignty, issues regarding the structure of the European political institutions (unelected commissioners), a degree of protectionism and the fact that Europe until recently has been a little trade shy when it comes to agreements, also free movement of labour (ironic since it's a fundamentally free market concept).

I myself am pro-EU. Sovereignty does not bother me all that much given the range of powers that Westminster still has and the very federal structure i want in the future. I share their concerns regarding the structure of European institutions but believe that it something that can be changed over time. I want CAP abolished but that comes back to the sovereignty aspect and could change slowly over time. The EU is negotiating with several large economies (USA, Canada for example) so i'm relatively happy even though i'd go further (the UK does not exploit trade enough anyway) and i'm pro free movement of labour within the EU, especially since 70% of UK immigration comes from outside the EU, policies like requiring a minimum GDP per capita (PPP) however are desirable.

Labour party will not be giving an EU referendum

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