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Can't do this integral

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Original post by n00bfi
How would I go about integrating 1x2+1\dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} ?


1x2+1=1x2+1(x+x2+1)x+x2+1\dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} = \dfrac{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} (x+\sqrt{x^2+1})}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
=xx2+1+1x+x2+1= \dfrac{\dfrac{x}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} + 1}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
Which is a simple log integral
Original post by QuantumOverlord
Something to stay away from at A level. Like people have said, you need to know about hyperbolic functions to stand a chance of integrating this. Is it possible you have read the question wrong and you want to integrate 1/sqrt(1-x^2)


11+x2dx[br][br][br][br]Letx=coshu;dx=sinhudu[br][br][br][br]=sinhudu1+cosh2u[br][br]=u+C[br][br]arccoshx+C[br][br] \int \dfrac {1}{\sqrt{1+x^2}} dx [br][br][br][br]Let x = coshu; dx = sinhu du[br][br][br][br]= \int \dfrac {sinhu du}{\sqrt{1+cosh^2u}}[br][br]= u + C[br][br]arccosh x + C[br][br]

Is this correct?

I realise I might've come off as gruff, but I'd like to stress I'm not :smile: What's contour integration? I wikipedia'd it but don't quite any of the terminology.
(edited 10 years ago)
Not sure if the alcohol is affecting my maths ability now or not anymore, but I tried TS's problem with a trig substitution and it didn't work . Go for the hyperbolic.
Original post by n00bfi
11+x2dx[br][br][br][br]Letx=coshu;dx=sinhudu[br][br][br][br]=sinhudu1+cosh2u[br][br]=u+C[br][br]arccoshx+C[br][br] \int \dfrac {1}{\sqrt{1+x^2}} dx [br][br][br][br]Let x = coshu; dx = sinhu du[br][br][br][br]= \int \dfrac {sinhu du}{\sqrt{1+cosh^2u}}[br][br]= u + C[br][br]arccosh x + C[br][br]

Is this correct?

I realise I might've come off as gruff, but I'd like to stress I'm not :smile: What's contour integration? I wikipedia'd it but don't quite any of the terminology.


You are pretty close, but cosh^2 u + 1 does not equal sinh^2 u. The Pythagorean identity is different in terms of hyperbolic functions (try another substitution). Do you know what complex numbers are? I think youll stuggle to understand contour integration without understanding of complex numbers.
Reply 24
Original post by n00bfi
11+x2dx[br][br][br][br]Letx=coshu;dx=sinhudu[br][br][br][br]=sinhudu1+cosh2u[br][br]=u+C[br][br]arccoshx+C[br][br] \int \dfrac {1}{\sqrt{1+x^2}} dx [br][br][br][br]Let x = coshu; dx = sinhu du[br][br][br][br]= \int \dfrac {sinhu du}{\sqrt{1+cosh^2u}}[br][br]= u + C[br][br]arccosh x + C[br][br]

Is this correct?

I realise I might've come off as gruff, but I'd like to stress I'm not :smile: What's contour integration? I wikipedia'd it but don't quite any of the terminology.


Nope not quite. Try another hyperbolic substitution and apply that identity I mentioned earlier and you should arrive at the right solution.
Original post by Dark Lord of Mordor
1x2+1=1x2+1(x+x2+1)x+x2+1\dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} = \dfrac{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} (x+\sqrt{x^2+1})}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
=xx2+1+1x+x2+1= \dfrac{\dfrac{x}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} + 1}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
Which is a simple log integral


This is kind of begging the question...


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Original post by Dark Lord of Mordor
1x2+1=1x2+1(x+x2+1)x+x2+1\dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} = \dfrac{\dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} (x+\sqrt{x^2+1})}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
=xx2+1+1x+x2+1= \dfrac{\dfrac{x}{\sqrt{x^2+1}} + 1}{x+\sqrt{x^2+1}}
Which is a simple log integral


This is a clever way of doing it and completely correct. Also should be a method the OP can understand at A level.

So you could use both methods to derive the log definition of the hyperbolic functions.
Original post by Angryification
Not sure if the alcohol is affecting my maths ability now or not anymore, but I tried TS's problem with a trig substitution and it didn't work . Go for the hyperbolic.


Blame it on the a-a-a-a-a-alcohol!

Spoiler


1x2+1 dx=x=tanθsecθ dθ==ln(x+x2+1)+Carsinh(x)+C\displaystyle \begin{aligned} \int \dfrac{1}{\sqrt{x^2 + 1}} \text{ d}x & \overset{x = \tan \theta}= \int \sec \theta \text{ d}\theta \\ & = \cdots \\ & = \ln \left( x + \sqrt{x^2 + 1} \right) + \mathcal{C} \equiv \mathrm{arsinh} (x) + \mathcal{C} \end{aligned}

Spoiler


The integral of secθ\sec \theta is of course, a standard integral, unless you decided to use the tangent half angle substitution. :colone:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by QuantumOverlord
You are pretty close, but cosh^2 u + 1 does not equal sinh^2 u. The Pythagorean identity is different in terms of hyperbolic functions (try another substitution). Do you know what complex numbers are? I think youll stuggle to understand contour integration without understanding of complex numbers.


oops

1x2+1dx[br][br]Letx=sinhu;dx=coshudu[br][br]coshusinh2u+1du[br][br]arsinhx+C[br][br] \int \dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2 + 1}} dx[br][br]Let x = sinhu; dx = coshu du[br][br]\int \dfrac {coshu}{\sqrt{sinh^2u + 1}} du[br][br]arsinhx + C[br][br]

Just basic knowledge, that i=1 i = \sqrt{-1} and that you can treat it as a vector (the reals and complexes form a plane) and expressing it as r(cosx + isinx)
Original post by n00bfi
oops

1x2+1dx[br][br]Letx=sinhu;dx=coshudu[br][br]coshusinh2u+1du[br][br]arsinhx+C[br][br] \int \dfrac {1}{\sqrt{x^2 + 1}} dx[br][br]Let x = sinhu; dx = coshu du[br][br]\int \dfrac {coshu}{\sqrt{sinh^2u + 1}} du[br][br]arsinhx + C[br][br]

Just basic knowledge, that i=1 i = \sqrt{-1} and that you can treat it as a vector (the reals and complexes form a plane) and expressing it as r(cosx + isinx)


Congrats, your answer is right. Also use the log method as suggested by another poster to prove an interesting relationship between logs and hyperbolic functions.

As for the contour integrals, ill leave it to someone else to explain, because its exactly the sort of thing I'm likely to botch up.
Original post by QuantumOverlord
Congrats, your answer is right. Also use the log method as suggested by another poster to prove an interesting relationship between logs and hyperbolic functions.

As for the contour integrals, ill leave it to someone else to explain, because its exactly the sort of thing I'm likely to botch up.


Oooooooookaaaaaaay how about

sinxdx\int \sqrt{sinx} dx


What am I doing not doing FM? I don't know...
Original post by n00bfi
Oooooooookaaaaaaay how about

sinxdx\int \sqrt{sinx} dx


What am I doing not doing FM? I don't know...


Jesus, thats a horrible one.

As far as I know you can't integrate that in terms of normal functions.
Original post by n00bfi
sinx dx\displaystyle \int \sqrt{\sin x} \text{ d}x


That one has something to do with elliptic integrals.
Original post by QuantumOverlord
Jesus, thats a horrible one.

As far as I know you can't integrate that in terms of normal functions.


Well okay...

Another problem was this:

x=1+3/t[br][br]y=t2sint[br][br]Apointhasordinates(a,π2/4)[br][br]Finda.[br][br]x = 1 + 3/t [br] [br]y = t^2sint[br][br]A point has ordinates (a,\pi^2/4)[br][br]Find a.[br][br]
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by n00bfi
Oooooooookaaaaaaay how about

sinxdx\int \sqrt{sinx} dx


What am I doing not doing FM? I don't know...


Don't think that has an analytical solution


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Original post by Khallil
That one has something to do with elliptic integrals.


I think you already know what I'm gonna say...

























What's that?
Original post by n00bfi
What's that?


I honestly haven't got the slightest clue. I just recognised the form from another question I'd seen. :facepalm2:

Original post by n00bfi
...


Do you mean co-ordinates or ordinates? They are two different (but somewhat linked) terms.

At first glance, it seems like you need to rearrange your first equation for tt in terms of xx, substitute it into your second equation so that you have yy in terms of xx and finally use your point to find the value of aa.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Khallil
That one has something to do with elliptic integrals.


It doesn't really. The nominally similar tanxdx \int \sqrt{tan x} dx is an elliptic integral.


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(edited 10 years ago)
[QUOTE="LightBlueSoldier;46854731"]It doesn't really. The nominally similar tanxdx[/textisanellipticintegral. \int \sqrt{tan x} dx [/text is an elliptic integral.

Wari wari, I don't have any experience with elliptic integrals. I entered the integral into Wolfram and that's what it came up with.
Original post by Khallil
Wari wari, I don't have any experience with elliptic integrals. I entered the integral into Wolfram and that's what it came up with.


It may technically be an elliptic integral (off the top of my head I think this is an integral of a rational bivariate function whose arguments are the root of a small polynomial in the dummy variable and the dummy itself) but it's not of the solvable variety if it is so it wouldn't really be relevant in that field. Mind you, my undergrad was in a completely different field and a while ago so maybe I'm wrong


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