Does 'Britishness' need to be taught in schools? #trojanhorse If so, what is it?

It's absolutely not a good thing; the things you listed as values above aren't exclusively British, they're just good human values to have, and frankly I don't think it's exclusively the government's job to try and teach children those values (although governments should obviously do their utmost to uphold them).

The fact that you mentioned 'British history' also leads to my next concern; as a undergraduate history student as of next year I can't help seeing history as an exceedingly easy target on which to base nationalist propaganda (which isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, but usually has undesireable consequences; a bit like communism, which a great idea if it would work but it's usually just too susceptible to corruption). There's always an infinite number of different angles to look at historical events, and more often than not one angle can't be proved to be any more accurate than the other (mainly due to the necessary existence of opinion in history, and the sheer amount of factual material meaning we always have to choose what to focus on). So I think there's a danger of governments making an excuse to portray British history in rosy absolutes (instead of the factual and moral grey area the subject actually is) by showing how Britain developed these 'special' values, just like they quite recently tried to do when they called for more British history to be taught in schools (to the exclusion of the history of other cultures, or international history).

No,the fact that we don't teach Britishness, is in fact British enough. Being British is about being democratic, diverse and accepting. People should have the freedom to follow whatever culture they desire.

'Diverse and accepting' basically shows Britishness is nothing more of a yes man for all the worlds cultures and people in your opinion, that's idiocy. What a False sense of responsibility if there ever was one.

I agree. I love accepting fascists, religious fundamentalists and racists! What a great country we have

Only a fraction of people are fascists, fundamentalists and racist because of they are different culture. You can have ethnically white British people also holding racist and fascist views. I believe when people of different cultures mix they can absorb some off each others values including the British ideas of equality, freedom and open mindedness.

I didn't specify where said fascists come from. A fascist is a fascist. I want you to convince me why I should tolerate fascism as a mart of our multicultural way of life.

I think the vast majority of people know what British culture is, without needing to be taught it and without necessarily being able to articulate it.

The issue is that many Muslims in this country see themselves as Muslim first and foremost, and identify more with fellow Muslims than with fellow Brits. This is why there were protests against Rushdie in this country after the Fatwa was issued against him, why Lee Rigby was killed, and why several Muslims are now going to fight in Syria.

There is no easy way to tackle this issue, but banning faith schools, deporting hate preachers and not allowing those fighting in Syria to ever return would be a good start.

How does a bunch of very unintegrated people who attempted to spread very outdated values in schools constitute a plot to continue "the war on terror"?

A lot of people will look at this story and use it as way of confirming their own prejudices regarding Muslims. In short, stories like this (which may or may not be entirely true) help to perpetuate negative stereotypes about Muslims.

And what do you suggest we do about it? Should we censor the story to prevent anyone drawing false conclusions about Muslims?
I very clearly saw you doing the exact same thing in the "Student murdered for being Muslim" topic.

People draw false conclusions every day, including you. Why should Muslims receive such special protection, which other groups do not receive?

I imagine you wouldn't have been very happy if the "Student murdered for being Muslim" story had been censored to stop people from drawing false conclusions about non-muslims.

*Note - this is assuming she was even killed by a non Muslim, which has not even been proven.

What cultures promote fascism? Most cultures do not. Anyway, I think being British is about tolerating other cultures so far as they do not go against the law and threaten others. Fascism doesn't agree with the democratic laws of this land.

I agree with your 2nd paragraph, but am a tad confused about parts of your first para, which don't seem to marry up with the second part of your argument.

It's mainly the term 'traitorous' that worries me slightly; the word suggests to me the idea of straying from an unquestionable (and therefore not democratically gained) loyalty to a particular group or individual. But this is probably/hopefully just me being picky, and not your intended message .

I don't think we should be 'inculcating' (another worrying term that I think contradicts what you later go on to say about faith schools) an appreciation of what you seem to be saying are the superiority of Western values; every culture makes a mixture of good and bad contributions to the wider world. Your comments about appreciating the Western world do sound a bit like they belong to the 19th Century.

I hope when you say 'Islamism' you mean extremist views that people say they base on their Islamic religion, and not just non-extreme Islamic belief? This is slightly unclear, and as a result the 1st paragraph is in slight danger of sounding like you want to demonise Islam a bit; I agree that no religion should be used and manipulated to further personal or political interests (although all too often it is), but any religion can do this, and the majority of Muslims aren't political extremists, believe it or not! Although I'm also not supportive of schools that actively promote a particular religious view, I think it's fine if those schools give children the opportunity to practice e.g. Islam or Christianity without forcing it on them, and if they make kids aware of the variety of religious (and secular) beliefs out there. By the way I'm not religious, so don't have a vested interest to support faith schools.

Thanks for clearing up the ambiguities in your post (and for pointing out some of mine ). I think what threw me with the 'traitor' thing was that the contexts it's usually heard in are more often than not, non-democratic contexts, and I wouldn't have used that word myself, but you're right, I looked before I leaped there. When it's explained in more detail I agree with a lot more of your arguments.