The Student Room Group

Stuck on FP2 complex numbers

a) Show that in an Argand diagram the equation arg(z-2)-arg(z-2i)=3pi/4 represents and arc of a circle and that mod((z-4)/(z-1)) is constant on this circle.

b) Find the values of z corresponding to the points in which this circle is cut by the curve given by mod(z-1)+mod(z-4)=5.

I've completed a)

For b)
I divided both sides by mod(z-1) to give 1+mod((z-4)/(z-1))=5/mod(z-1). Then using the identity formed in a), I've managed to get down to mod(z-1)=5/3 .How do I solve this to find the values of z?
Reply 1
Original post by bobbricks
a) Show that in an Argand diagram the equation arg(z-2)-arg(z-2i)=3pi/4 represents and arc of a circle and that mod((z-4)/(z-1)) is constant on this circle.

b) Find the values of z corresponding to the points in which this circle is cut by the curve given by mod(z-1)+mod(z-4)=5.

I've completed a)

For b)
I divided both sides by mod(z-1) to give 1+mod((z-4)/(z-1))=5/mod(z-1). Then using the identity formed in a), I've managed to get down to mod(z-1)=5/3 .How do I solve this to find the values of z?


I am not quite following the part (b) but can you see the second locus is a ellipse?
Reply 2
Original post by TeeEm
I am not quite following the part (b) but can you see the second locus is a ellipse?


I see slthough we haven't covered ellipses (its Fp3 I think) so what do I do with it now/. The answer's 10/9 +- 4root(14)i/9
Reply 3
Original post by bobbricks
I see slthough we haven't covered ellipses (its Fp3 I think) so what do I do with it now/. The answer's 10/9 +- 4root(14)i/9


my advice is to switch to cartesian

the circular arc do you have a Cartesian form? or just a complex locus?


The ellipse I will explain how to change it to Cartesian
Reply 4
Original post by TeeEm
my advice is to switch to cartesian

the circular arc do you have a Cartesian form? or just a complex locus?


The ellipse I will explain how to change it to Cartesian


For mod(z-1)=5/3 ,

Converting to Cartesian gives: (x-1)^2+y^2=25/9

I'm not sure how to convert the circular arc to cartesian
Reply 5
Original post by bobbricks
For mod(z-1)=5/3 ,

Converting to Cartesian gives: (x-1)^2+y^2=25/9

I'm not sure how to convert the circular arc to cartesian


it is not correct...

the second curve is an ellipse with Cartesian equation x2/25+y2/4=1.


Secondly how have you proven that the first part is an arc of a circle without Cartesian?
(just a geometric argument?)
Reply 6
Original post by TeeEm
it is not correct...

the second curve is an ellipse with Cartesian equation x2/25+y2/4=1.


Secondly how have you proven that the first part is an arc of a circle without Cartesian?
(just a geometric argument?)


For the second curve, I did:
mod(z-1)=5/3
So mod((x-1)+iy)=5/3
So root[(x-1)^2 +y^2 )]=5/3
So (x-1)^2 +y^2 =25/9

For proving its an arc of a circle, I just drew an Argand diagram which consisted of a minor arc of a circle with centre(0,0) and radius=1 so the cartesian is x^2 + y^2 =1. To show mod((z-4)/(z-1)) is constant on the circle, I let this equal k, then rearranged and found that k=2 (I can go into more detail if you want)
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 7
Original post by bobbricks
For the second curve, I did:
mod(z-1)=5/3
So mod((x-1)+iy)=5/3
So root[(x-1)^2 +y^2 )]=5/3
So (x-1)^2 +y^2 =25/9

For proving its an arc of a circle, I just drew an Argand diagram which consisted of a minor arc of a circle with centre(0,0) and radius=1


i have no idea where mod(z-1)=5/3 came from.


(x-1)^2 +y^2 =25/9 might be the correct answer if mod(z-1)=5/3

but is not the correct answer for |z-1|+|z-4|=5.


for the circle give me 10 minutes or so to work out Cartesian
Reply 8
Original post by TeeEm
i have no idea where mod(z-1)=5/3 came from.


(x-1)^2 +y^2 =25/9 might be the correct answer if mod(z-1)=5/3

but is not the correct answer for |z-1|+|z-4|=5.


for the circle give me 10 minutes or so to work out Cartesian


Both parts are linked-
The equation of the full circle is x^2 + y^2 =4 from the diagram, since it has radius=2 and centre (0,0).

To show mod[(z-4)/(z-1] is a constant, I said:
let mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=k
so mod(z-4)=kmod(z-1)
z=x+iy
so mod[(x-4)+iy]=kmod[(x-1)+iy]
so root[(x-4)^2+y^2]=kroot[(x-1)^2+y^2]
Expanding out,rearranging and subbing in x^2+y^2=4.
I ended up with 4(5-2x)=k^2(5-2x)
so k=2.

Hence,
mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=2

Now, for part b:
mod(z-1)+mod(z-4)=5.
so 1+mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=5/mod(z-1)

From part a, mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=2
so 1+2=5/mod(z-1)
so mod(z-1)=5/3
Reply 9
Original post by bobbricks
Both parts are linked-
The equation of the full circle is x^2 + y^2 =4 from the diagram, since it has radius=2 and centre (0,0).

To show mod[(z-4)/(z-1] is a constant, I said:
let mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=k
so mod(z-4)=kmod(z-1)
z=x+iy
so mod[(x-4)+iy]=kmod[(x-1)+iy]
so root[(x-4)^2+y^2]=kroot[(x-1)^2+y^2]
Expanding out,rearranging and subbing in x^2+y^2=4.
I ended up with 4(5-2x)=k^2(5-2x)
so k=2.

Hence,
mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=2

Now, for part b:
mod(z-1)+mod(z-4)=5.
so 1+mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=5/mod(z-1)

From part a, mod[(z-4)/(z-1)]=2
so 1+2=5/mod(z-1)
so mod(z-1)=5/3


sorry for the delay I just worked out Cartesian for the arc

x2+y2=4 in the 1st quadrant

(you mentioned earlier x2+y2=1 )
Reply 10
Original post by TeeEm
sorry for the delay I just worked out Cartesian for the arc

x2+y2=4 in the 1st quadrant

(you mentioned earlier x2+y2=1 )


Oh, sorry! I did write out x2+y2=4 on paper :redface:

So, how do i solve :
mod(z-1)=5/3

to end up with 10/9 +- 4root(14)i/9
Reply 11
Original post by bobbricks
Oh, sorry! I did write out x2+y2=4 on paper :redface:

So, how do i solve :
mod(z-1)=5/3

to end up with 10/9 +- 4root(14)i/9


this is strange because I cannot see a mistake in your workings ...

and |z-1|=5/3 is a circle centre (1,0), radius 5/3

there is nothing to solve, A circle has infinite point to satisfy it
Reply 12
Original post by TeeEm
this is strange because I cannot see a mistake in your workings ...

and |z-1|=5/3 is a circle centre (1,0), radius 5/3

there is nothing to solve, A circle has infinite point to satisfy it


I solved it but not your way

i got 10/4+4root14/9i (no plus minus)
Reply 13
Original post by bobbricks
Oh, sorry! I did write out x2+y2=4 on paper :redface:

So, how do i solve :
mod(z-1)=5/3

to end up with 10/9 +- 4root(14)i/9


I solved it but not your way

i got 10/9+4root14/9i (no plus minus)


EDIT :did it your way too and I got the same answer
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by TeeEm
I solved it but not your way

i got 10/9+4root14/9i (no plus minus)


EDIT :did it your way too and I got the same answer


Ooh...how did you do it my way?
Reply 15
Original post by bobbricks
Ooh...how did you do it my way?


solved simult

mod(z-1)=5/3 with x2+y2=4, x>0, y>0

mod(z-1)=5/3 is (x-1)2+y2=25/9


did it with my ellipse too ...
Reply 16
Original post by TeeEm
solved simult

mod(z-1)=5/3 with x2+y2=4, x>0, y>0

mod(z-1)=5/3 is (x-1)2+y2=25/9


did it with my ellipse too ...


You can show me the ellipse way as well if you want :cool:

Just finished it using my way, thanks :smile:
Reply 17
Original post by bobbricks
You can show me the ellipse way as well if you want :cool:

Just finished it using my way, thanks :smile:


the ellipse is just as quick without hints from part (a).

the equation of the ellipse in Cartesian is

(x-5/2)2+(25y2/16=25/4

then you solve simult with arc as before.


Keep this question handy and redo it when you know more about ellipses in FP3.

I hope it was helpful


PS: For my time spent on this question I got a very nice/hardish question to "steal" and put into my own resources.

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