Do you believe people that commit suicide are selfish?
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Depends on the person. If you've got young kids, then harden the **** up.
Original post by ngt93
Is it also selfish telling someone that they shouldn't kill themselves despite how much they are in pain by being alive?
Yes, it could be if done because the person doesn't want to lose them. Or if it's done with altruism in mind with the hope of that person having happier times then it isn't selfish.
What's the point here?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
Yes, it could be if done because the person doesn't want to lose them. Or if it's done with altruism in mind with the hope of that person having happier times then it isn't selfish.
What's the point here?
What's the point here?
No point.
Just looking at it from different angles.
Yes and no.
I think throwing yourself onto train tracks and potentially traumatising the driver and/or passengers for life is hardly considerate.
I think throwing yourself onto train tracks and potentially traumatising the driver and/or passengers for life is hardly considerate.
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
100% Yes.
Suicide is awful, but defining selfishness as thinking about yourself and not considering the damage it will do to other around you then yes, it completely is. It's terrible that people do commit suicide and personally I believe it should be people's prerogative to do what they will with their life, though people committing suicide are not really in a good state of mind to make judgements. Therein lies a debate about the morality of suicide. But it's definitely defined as selfish, and I struggle to see why people say it isn't.
Guessing just see selfish in the inherently negative sense and get annoyed at people being callous or something?
Suicide is awful, but defining selfishness as thinking about yourself and not considering the damage it will do to other around you then yes, it completely is. It's terrible that people do commit suicide and personally I believe it should be people's prerogative to do what they will with their life, though people committing suicide are not really in a good state of mind to make judgements. Therein lies a debate about the morality of suicide. But it's definitely defined as selfish, and I struggle to see why people say it isn't.
Guessing just see selfish in the inherently negative sense and get annoyed at people being callous or something?
Semantics more than any thing else there isn't it though?
OED defines selfishness as '(Of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure'.
Since depression has been clinically demonstrated to result from an inability to feel emotions in a traditional way (for example, sufferers experience anhedonia, an inability to feel pleasure) then there is no pleasure or profit to be gained from killing yourself and so it cannot be 'selfish'. It does demonstrate a lack of consideration for others but it is not based upon thoughts of your own personal gain. There is no gain in the situation, only less loss.
Of course you could commit suicide for reasons other than classic clinical depression so it's not an entirely simple answer. Suicide is an aberration in nature, it shouldn't happen unless things have gone very wrong. That's the problem of the overly developed human brain I guess....
Since depression has been clinically demonstrated to result from an inability to feel emotions in a traditional way (for example, sufferers experience anhedonia, an inability to feel pleasure) then there is no pleasure or profit to be gained from killing yourself and so it cannot be 'selfish'. It does demonstrate a lack of consideration for others but it is not based upon thoughts of your own personal gain. There is no gain in the situation, only less loss.
Of course you could commit suicide for reasons other than classic clinical depression so it's not an entirely simple answer. Suicide is an aberration in nature, it shouldn't happen unless things have gone very wrong. That's the problem of the overly developed human brain I guess....
Original post by Frannoooooooo
Yes and no.
I think throwing yourself onto train tracks and potentially traumatising the driver and/or passengers for life is hardly considerate.
I think throwing yourself onto train tracks and potentially traumatising the driver and/or passengers for life is hardly considerate.
They probably don't have that in mind when they do it but yeah, the people on the train will be traumatised. Even when the trains are delayed because of 'a person hit by a train', I sort of die a little inside and don't feel the same the whole day.
Original post by The_Internet
Semantics more than any thing else there isn't it though?
As usual, yes. In this case people have ascribed emotional meaning to the word selfish as inherently negative. Thereby rendering this a conflict of something inescapably selfish with something awful, as we can't speak ill of the dead so it becomes a conflicting symbolic act.
Original post by Temporality
They probably don't have that in mind when they do it but yeah, the people on the train will be traumatised. Even when the trains are delayed because of 'a person hit by a train', I sort of die a little inside and don't feel the same the whole day.
I'm exactly the same.
Spoilered because it might trigger
Spoiler
Original post by Temporality
They probably don't have that in mind when they do it but yeah, the people on the train will be traumatised. Even when the trains are delayed because of 'a person hit by a train', I sort of die a little inside and don't feel the same the whole day.
Exactly. They don't have the effects of their actions on others in mind.. that's what leads people to call it selfish; they're acting purely in self interest.
By the way I'm just playing devil's advocate here.. I don't have any strong or definite views
Original post by ngt93
Is it also selfish telling someone that they shouldn't kill themselves despite how much they are in pain by being alive?
Well that would depend on the circumstances. If someone is old and dying, that probably is selfish.
Often, if you evaluate the situation objectively, suicide is selfish. This is especially so if it's done by, say, jumping into traffic, which will scar the poor guy who hits you forever. But of course people who might act selfishly in that way usually need help rather than condemnation.
edit: didn't see that someone had already made the point.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Hal.E.Lujah
100% Yes.
Suicide is awful, but defining selfishness as thinking about yourself and not considering the damage it will do to other around you then yes, it completely is. It's terrible that people do commit suicide and personally I believe it should be people's prerogative to do what they will with their life, though people committing suicide are not really in a good state of mind to make judgements. Therein lies a debate about the morality of suicide. But it's definitely defined as selfish, and I struggle to see why people say it isn't.
Guessing just see selfish in the inherently negative sense and get annoyed at people being callous or something?
Suicide is awful, but defining selfishness as thinking about yourself and not considering the damage it will do to other around you then yes, it completely is. It's terrible that people do commit suicide and personally I believe it should be people's prerogative to do what they will with their life, though people committing suicide are not really in a good state of mind to make judgements. Therein lies a debate about the morality of suicide. But it's definitely defined as selfish, and I struggle to see why people say it isn't.
Guessing just see selfish in the inherently negative sense and get annoyed at people being callous or something?
I completely agree
Everyone has to think about doing something for themselves sometime. People who are depressed probably do things for themselves less than other people do anyway.
Nah
People that force you to live when you dont want to are selfish
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People that force you to live when you dont want to are selfish
Posted from TSR Mobile
I don't see how somebody can be described as selfish when committing an act that they believe will benefit the people around them.
I obviously can't speak for all suicides ever, but most people in that frame of mind do not believe their life is valued by anyone.
A friend of mine killed himself a few years ago and he was one of the least selfish people ever. He was generous, kind and caring. It was incredibly sad and nobody did, or ever would, ascribe the word selfish to him, in life or in death.
I obviously can't speak for all suicides ever, but most people in that frame of mind do not believe their life is valued by anyone.
A friend of mine killed himself a few years ago and he was one of the least selfish people ever. He was generous, kind and caring. It was incredibly sad and nobody did, or ever would, ascribe the word selfish to him, in life or in death.
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