The Student Room Group

Interesting Collision Problem (hard STEP level?)

To be honest, this is probably (definitely!) too hard for STEP as written. If people are interested I may post some hints.

A large truck of mass M is travelling towards a wall at constant speed.
A small truck of mass m is in the way.

All collisions (between the two trucks, and between the small truck and the wall) are perfectly elastic.

If M = 160000000000m, how many collisions occur between the trucks before the large truck starts moving away from the wall?

Spoiler

(edited 9 years ago)

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Is that 160...(kg?) or m?

Edit: Never mind.:biggrin:
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 2
Original post by Xin Xang
Is that 160...(kg?) or m?
The only thing that matters is the ratio between the mass of the small truck and the mass of the large one. I am using m and M to denote these two masses.
Original post by DFranklin
The only thing that matters is the ratio between the mass of the small truck and the mass of the large one. I am using m and M to denote these two masses.


Yh I realised just as you wrote that. I'm going to have a crack at this, but judging from your description I highly doubt I'll be too successful.
Original post by DFranklin
To be honest, this is probably (definitely!) too hard for STEP as written. If people are interested I may post some hints.

A large truck of mass M is travelling towards a wall at constant speed.
A small truck of mass m is in the way.

All collisions (between the two trucks, and between the small truck and the wall) are perfectly elastic.

If M = 160000000000m, how many collisions occur between the trucks before the large truck starts moving away from the wall?

Spoiler



Why does the distance to the wall not matter?
Reply 5
Original post by ThatPerson
Why does the distance to the wall not matter?
The velocities only change when either the trucks collide or the small truck collides with the wall. The only way the distance would matter is if we cared how long it took between collisions, but we don't.
Original post by DFranklin
The velocities only change when either the trucks collide or the small truck collides with the wall. The only way the distance would matter is if we cared how long it took between collisions, but we don't.


Is the algebra involved meant to turn atrocious?
:colondollar:
Reply 7
It's a bit messy, yes.

Some hints:

Spoiler

Yh lol I give up. Any hints?
Original post by DFranklin
It's a bit messy, yes.

Some hints:

Spoiler



I formed a second order recurrence relation for the speed of object M alone.

It is of the form Mi+2=((Mi+1)^2 + A(Mi)(Mi+1))/Mi but it was just horrendous, in hindsight using vn and Vn makes a lot more sense.
But tbh I highly doubt I would have got any further anyway, after looking at the solution.

Oh well. Back to STEP lol.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 10
Original post by Xin Xang
I formed a second order recurrence relation for the speed of object M alone.

It is of the form Mi+2=((Mi+1)^2 + A(Mi)(Mi+1))/Mi but it was just horrendous, in hindsight using vn and Vn makes a lot more sense.
But tbh I highly doubt I would have got any further anyway, after looking at the solution.

Oh well. Back to STEP lol.
For what it's worth, I've seen a variant of this on a CCE paper (the Cambridge Entrance Exam before STEP). But I think it was a 504 paper, where 3 complete questions would give you the equivalent of an S.
Original post by DFranklin
For what it's worth, I've seen a variant of this on a CCE paper (the Cambridge Entrance Exam before STEP). But I think it was a 504 paper, where 3 complete questions would give you the equivalent of an S.


I'm guessing that the original question was broken up into more manageable parts. I imagine it asked you to prove the original recurrence relations, but I still don't see how I would ever come up with the second part of the solution.

I'm hoping it was a different spec. :s-smilie: Perhaps that will provide me some comfort.
Does the 314159 come from the truck with mass m making a turn of 314159 radians every time it hits the wall and the truck with mass M? Is it a good idea to find out the number of turns the small truck makes and then halve that amount to get the answer.
Reply 13
Original post by lllllllllll
Does the 314159 come from the truck with mass m making a turn of 314159 radians every time it hits the wall and the truck with mass M? Is it a good idea to find out the number of turns the small truck makes and then halve that amount to get the answer.
No. The truck's are all moving in a straight line. (Each collision is just a standard M1/M2 collisions problem, it's just there are rather a *lot* of collision).

Spoiler

Original post by DFranklin
No. The truck's are all moving in a straight line. (Each collision is just a standard M1/M2 collisions problem, it's just there are rather a *lot* of collision).

Spoiler



Do they collide 8 x 10^11 times?
Reply 15
Original post by lllllllllll
Do they collide 8 x 10^11 times?
No.
Original post by DFranklin
To be honest, this is probably (definitely!) too hard for STEP as written. If people are interested I may post some hints.

A large truck of mass M is travelling towards a wall at constant speed.
A small truck of mass m is in the way.

All collisions (between the two trucks, and between the small truck and the wall) are perfectly elastic.

If M = 160000000000m, how many collisions occur between the trucks before the large truck starts moving away from the wall?

Spoiler



EDIT: The spoiler gives it way, don't look if you're actually trying to do the problem yourself.

Spoiler

(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by DFranklin
No.


I give up, just hope something similar doesn't come it this year :s-smilie:
Original post by lllllllllll
I give up, just hope something similar doesn't come it this year :s-smilie:


It can't possibly. I think DFranklin has underestimated the difficulty of the problem. Or maybe kids back in the day were cleverer. Either way, it's ridiculous to panic* over STEP because you can't do this problem. That'd be like saying "I'm worried I won't get a degree in maths because I can't prove the Riemann Hypothesis"**.

*I'm not saying you are but I want to pre-empt people worrying unnecessarily

**OK it really isn't but the point still stands :smile:
Reply 19
Original post by lllllllllll
I give up, just hope something similar doesn't come it this year :s-smilie:
It won't. And even if it did, there's still another 12 questions,,,

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