Who do you want to win Labour leadership?

Corbyn should have been given 2 options, one for right wingers wanting him to screw over 2020 Labour, and one for people who genuinely want him to win.

I have to say that the right-wingers in question here are being unbelievably short-sighted. It's possible that Labour under Corbyn would indeed be unelectable, but it's by no means certain. And, in the event that Corbyn somehow does become PM in 2020, it would be a disaster for everyone but most especially for those on the hard right who think they want to see Labour destroyed.

Hence why, if I'd bought myself a vote, it would have been for Liz Kendall. Of all the candidates on offer, she's the only one who could conceivably persuade me to vote Labour at any time in the next five years.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 41

TheCasual MK2

9

Original post by Mad Vlad

Balls was hampered by Miliband's weak leadership. He spent 4 years floundering on a "just say the opposite of what the tories say" policy, and as the economy recovered as it has, it catastrophically damaged the party's credibility. By the end, it was apparent that the public felt that Labour's credibility on the economy was in the toilet and that most people realised that while austerity sucks, it's somewhat necessary, so they came up with austerity lite, which on paper sounds lovely, but it was way too late - the policy was wishy washy and nobody had any trust in its execution.

Austerity is necessary though. It ideological.

The reason was damage on economy was for some bizarre it failed to defend the myth Labour spent to much and crashed the economy.

Also the 'Better Together' Campaign was a disaster. Which obviously fed the Red Tory digs and destroyed Labour in Scotland. Which obviously was used by the Tories to propagate Labour propped up by the SNP.

The end of the day Balls was a major playing in Shadow Cabinet and has massive impact into the election planning,

Reply 42

demx9

3

Original post by CoolCavy

no why u say that just bc i don't like any policticians. i resent the alligation quite frankly

you think like a racist

Reply 43

ElephantMemory

8

Why is this forum so right wing?

Reply 44

Jammy Duel

21

Original post by Arbolus

I have to say that the right-wingers in question here are being unbelievably short-sighted. It's possible that Labour under Corbyn would indeed be unelectable, but it's by no means certain. And, in the event that Corbyn somehow does become PM in 2020, it would be a disaster for everyone but most especially for those on the hard right who currently want to see Labour destroyed.

Hence why, if I'd bought myself a vote, it would have been for Liz Kendall. Of all the candidates on offer, she's the only one who could conceivably persuade me to vote Labour at any time in the next five years.

It is highly improbable, would require something pretty bad to happen in the second half of the parliament since that's pretty much the only way to be beating a centrist opponent whilst so badly abandoning the centre.

Reply 45

Mr JB

2

Original post by Mad Vlad

...and the country will say "that's nice", and vote Tory.

Original post by Mad Vlad

it'll make the 2020 election campaign the easiest ever fought.

Disagree entirely, and I don't even really give a **** who gets in because once they do, they're all one and the same anyway, as they're held to account by those behind them and just toe the party line, which actually negates any point of any democratic function and instead leads to tribalist political groups all deciding what is best for us.

However, I think Corbyn would be the best for Labour because he is the only one who is (a) articulate enough to oppose austerity and propose an alternative (b) convey passion in his message rather than looking like a robot and (c) galvanise an older generation that are nostalgic about socialist Britain and would like a return to the very 70's you criticise. A lot of these turned to UKIP in key north areas and Labour needs to win them back. It also needs an anti-austerity platform to do any good in Scotland or Wales.

Wants to increase taxation for middle income earners
Wants to devalue the pound to fund pet projects with printed money
Wants to strongly return to a mantra of irresponsibly spending more money than we make
Wants to negotiate with terrorists
Wants to pour more money into benefit claimant's pockets
Wants to put small enterprises out of business
Wants to dissuade investment in private sector jobs in the UK
Wants to give the unions more freedom
Wants to open the doors to immigrants
etc. etc. etc.

All of these are easily countered and Corbyn has the added benefit of using appeals to emotion - poor demonised by welfare cuts, pensioners unable to heat their homes, etc. He will play on all of that, whether rightly or wrongly, to suit the party goal. If anything, his task is easier because he will galvanise a load of young adults behind him who sympathise with the poor, a load of nostalgic pensioners who miss 'the good old days' and a lot of people who have quite frankly had enough of austerity.

Also, you use Corbyn's look against him but it will work in his favour as some will see him more 'a man of the people' much like how Farage has obtained votes with his portrayed image, as opposed to a Tory in a suit that just reeks of Eton privilege.

Reply 46

Arbolus

13

Original post by Jammy Duel

It is highly improbable, would require something pretty bad to happen in the second half of the parliament since that's pretty much the only way to be beating a centrist opponent whilst so badly abandoning the centre.

Yes, but what are the Conservatives doing now if not also abandoning the centre? Without the Lib Dems to be a counterweight, Cameron is slowly being dragged further and further right by the rest of the party. It's quite possible that in 2020 the choice will be between the hard left and the hard right, with no major centrist parties to be seen, and I'm not at all certain of which path voters will prefer then.

Reply 47

Jammy Duel

21

Original post by Arbolus

Yes, but what are the Conservatives doing now if not also abandoning the centre? Without the Lib Dems to be a counterweight, Cameron is slowly being dragged further and further right by the rest of the party. It's quite possible that in 2020 the choice will be between the hard left and the hard right, with no major centrist parties to be seen, and I'm not at all certain of which path voters will prefer then.

Being centrist?

And of course thins works entirely under the assumption that Corbyn is still leader in 2020.

Reply 48

ElephantMemory

8

'Centrist' lol. Another right wing buzzword.

Reply 49

Kromium

1

Jeremy Corbyn.

If this man doesn't win i'm never voting again.

Posted from TSR Mobile

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 50

TheCasual MK2

9

Since Thatcher this country has moved to massive to the right. New Labour adopted a lot of Conservative economic policies.

This government are more right wing then Thatcher and will get more right wing as this parliament goes on. Especially when Cameron steps down as Osborne, Johnson and May are to the right of Cameron,

I actually think it'll be great for democracy is this country if we have a left wing party and a right wing party. Now of this wishy washy fighting for a small middle ground,

Reply 51

L'Evil Fish

18

Part of me wants Corbyn to win, but then I still do want Cooper to as well.

Would be great if it was Corbyn, with his ideas reigned in and tightened by the others.

But then the media would end up defacing him.

Reply 52

ottom

8

Corbyn or Kendall on the basis that they are the two candidates who have given at least the impression of having principles and ideas.

Original post by demx9

you think like a racist

how so? that is a ridicoulis statement. So what i don't like politicians, they all have their flaws as do all ppl so i don't like them. How on earth is that 'thinking like a racist' never did i mention race, colour or creed. You are so judgemental, take the plank out of ur own eye first.

Reply 54

zippity.doodah

3

jeremy corbyn
I am an unashamed libertarian capitalist and I totally oppose socialism, but JC is somebody I admire for a number of reasons:

1) he isn't a lap-dog/sheep politician - he's opposed his own party a huge amount of times which means that he isn't the kind of person who will vote for something he doesn't truly believe in or agree with, meaning that he is at least an honest man true to his principles. if you compare him to andy burn-them, who has never opposed his party, you can see that andy burn-them is the kind of man who will "play ball" will JC will only do things his principles correspond with. AB is the new generation's tony blair.

2) he actually represents the traditional labour party. with the traditional labour party, you actually know what they stand for. new labour was a vague mish-mash of thatcherism and...well it was basically just thatcherism lite and war-mongering, along with bankophilia. with people like AB and the rest, they are just a new labour re-hash. in my opinion, I think labour lost a lot of votes (to the greens, SNP, etc) because, contrary to what some think, labour wasn't left wing enough.

3) he doesn't seem like a europhile - he actually seems like a politician who has an open mind regarding the EU and whether we should stay or leave - unlike his party colleagues who read a script when they're asked about how they feel about the EU, whom will never change their views, because they want to climb their party's hierarchy ladder

4) he isn't playing the old "vote for me because I'm a woman" routine (I'm looking at yvette cooper here...to my knowledge liz kendal hasn't done this yet)

5) he opposes wars and bombings - just like harold wilson vis-a-vis vietnam.

6) he hasn't seemed to change his fundamental views/principles in his entire political career - again, an indication of a conviction politician, not a professional politician

7) tony blair strongly opposes him - +1

8) he's seemed very well-tempered and calm when he's faced criticism from his fellow labour candidates for leadership. he doesn't resort to personal attacks too.

9) he seems relatives in touch, at least vastly so compared with AB, YC and LK. he's not yet another oxbridge sheltered-elite. he seems pretty normal. not to be saying that you can't be an oxbridge-type for me to support you, I am simply saying that this means that JC is more respectable for this background.

10) he isn't connected to the former labour establishments at all - he is a party member and that seems to be the only thing he has in common with the labour governments that got things so terribly wrong on so many things. I'm saying this in the sense that if he was a former cabinet minister, he is more likely to be a part of that previous generation than others running.

JC reminds me a lot of tony benn too, which was a politician who, despite some of his economic views, was a very down to earth democratic politician

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 55

Rakas21

21

For me it's all about the Maths..

Kendall.
- Leaks to the Greens and Liberals
- Holds or gains to the Tories and Kippers (depends how much the Tories annoy people)

Result is a net gain.

Corbyn
- Assume he picks up 8% of the Scottish vote and another 2% from the Greens (3% UK total) then he still only gains ~10 seats
- Will lose votes en masse to the Liberals (soft left>hard left) and Tories (especially once the media slaughter him over the Royals, the union and his foreign policy). It's very easy to imagine that he pushes the Tories over 40% and loses votes on net himself
- Gaining votes depends on Kippers and non-voters, neither of which i believe will come in droves

Result is a Tory landslide and Labour head into 2025 more than 100 seats behind with a net loss in votes

..

I just really don't understand why on earth you think a Republican who wants to leave NATO is not going to be slaughtered. The Tories would have to elect Peter Bone as leader for him to have a chance.

Reply 56

KimKallstrom

14

Original post by Rakas21

For me it's all about the Maths..

Kendall.
- Leaks to the Greens and Liberals
- Holds or gains to the Tories and Kippers (depends how much the Tories annoy people)

Result is a net gain.

Corbyn
- Assume he picks up 8% of the Scottish vote and another 2% from the Greens (3% UK total) then he still only gains ~10 seats
- Will lose votes en masse to the Liberals (soft left>hard left) and Tories (especially once the media slaughter him over the Royals, the union and his foreign policy). It's very easy to imagine that he pushes the Tories over 40% and loses votes on net himself
- Gaining votes depends on Kippers and non-voters, neither of which i believe will come in droves

Result is a Tory landslide and Labour head into 2025 more than 100 seats behind with a net loss in votes

..

I just really don't understand why on earth you think a Republican who wants to leave NATO is not going to be slaughtered. The Tories would have to elect Peter Bone as leader for him to have a chance.

To be fair, I honestly see the vast majority of Green Party voters going for Corbyn. However there are only a million of them and it's the 4 million UKIP voters and borderline Conservative voters he'd need to make headway into. Which he won't.

Reply 57

Rakas21

21

Original post by KimKallstrom

To be fair, I honestly see the vast majority of Green Party voters going for Corbyn. However there are only a million of them and it's the 4 million UKIP voters and borderline Conservative voters he'd need to make headway into. Which he won't.

Taking half the Green Party voters only gives him 2% of the total and ~7 seats. I'm fairly certain that without a shock event he'll lose over 2% of the Labour vote to the Liberals and Tories.

His hopes rest on Kippers and non-voters..

Non Voters - Fickle, depending on these people is beyond foolish. They can't even be bothered to spoil their ballot.

Kippers - Polling suggests that around 40% of Kippers view him more positively than the other candidates however even if there's a protest element i believe it incredibly unlikely that people who don't like immigration as their number 1 issue will vote for Corbyn.