The Arsenal Thread XXV
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Original post by MrChill
But we played a full strength City and Chelsea team. You think because it was ONLY the FA cup semi or final, Chelsea and City players gave up?
Yes, we were rubbish last season. We got a better centreback in Gabriel and first choice goalie is back- defo will help against the Brightons. As for Villa, we couldn't break them down- so we upgraded our right wing and got a beast in Willian, even though Pepe is looking better.
A stable, defence can get you those points and I think we have every chance to be up there in the mix if people think Chelsea with their defence can get into the 90+ points! 😄
Anyways have goodun peeps. Laterz. 😁
Yes, we were rubbish last season. We got a better centreback in Gabriel and first choice goalie is back- defo will help against the Brightons. As for Villa, we couldn't break them down- so we upgraded our right wing and got a beast in Willian, even though Pepe is looking better.
A stable, defence can get you those points and I think we have every chance to be up there in the mix if people think Chelsea with their defence can get into the 90+ points! 😄
Anyways have goodun peeps. Laterz. 😁
My point is it just simply has no relevance for the Premier League as its a knock out cup competition but even then, the average PL teams don't play as attacking as those teams you mentioned and you get the majority of points from those types of teams, not by beating the top 6. Liverpool in the past were able to beat top teams in the PL but still couldn't win the league as they dropped too many points against the lower sides who parked the bus, not every team is going to play into Arteta's hands. United had a stable defence under Mourinho in his second season but only got 84 points and lost out to Man City who got 100 points. Just having a stable defence and one top striker isn't enough nowadays, bar has been raised now.
Can see you guys going on a run like Leicester did last season but will not be able to sustain it for a full season and drop off. Top 4 is certainly achievable but will be tough.
(edited 3 years ago)
Yeah title talk is ludicrous and will be for a few years until we enter another cycle post Klopp/Pep. Same position as Utd I think.
My prediction is City to hit 95-100ish points, Liverpool 90-95ish, Chelsea 75-80ish, Utd 70-75, Arsenal 70-80. Jose will be sacked.
My prediction is City to hit 95-100ish points, Liverpool 90-95ish, Chelsea 75-80ish, Utd 70-75, Arsenal 70-80. Jose will be sacked.
Unai Emery disasterclass in La Liga today against newly promoted Huesca.
This guy man...
This guy man...
Original post by bj27
Lol Beast in Willian. I watch him every week.
Lets lay down some stats for you because you're either 15 or stupid:
Willian
37 league goals in 7 seasons.
Havertz stats:
29 league goals in 2 seasons.
Both are right wingers/No 10s.
Don't want to use Ziyech stats because he's in a farmers league but similar story. We bought two better younger right wingers. Plus anyway Chelsea had lots of key injuries in the final, not an excuse for the way we played but Kanté starting and Pulisic not getting injured midway in the match and it's a different story.
No doubt I see the team Arteta is building and what he's trying to do with the players you've got and it looks good, but you have no depth in midfield hence having to use the likes of Elneny, Maitland Niles is nice squad player but he's not particularly a top player, he's a role player.
Lets lay down some stats for you because you're either 15 or stupid:
Willian
37 league goals in 7 seasons.
Havertz stats:
29 league goals in 2 seasons.
Both are right wingers/No 10s.
Don't want to use Ziyech stats because he's in a farmers league but similar story. We bought two better younger right wingers. Plus anyway Chelsea had lots of key injuries in the final, not an excuse for the way we played but Kanté starting and Pulisic not getting injured midway in the match and it's a different story.
No doubt I see the team Arteta is building and what he's trying to do with the players you've got and it looks good, but you have no depth in midfield hence having to use the likes of Elneny, Maitland Niles is nice squad player but he's not particularly a top player, he's a role player.
So you call me stupid for just voicing my opinion about Willian. That's uncalled for and frankly quite disrespectful. But, I don't know what's going on in your life so I will let it go this time.
I don't understand why you are trying to compare Havertz to Willian-I never mentioned anything about Havertz or Ziyech. Also, I would like to point out that Havertz played as centre forward last season for a number of games and scored- so the numbers are skewed. Also, Havertz doesn't help with defending and win possession like Willian. So he isn't as well rounded like Willian, albeit with much higher ceiling. Pulisic is better imo. But, compared to Ozil Willian is a beast.
I based my opinion on Willian's all-around attacking + defensive ability. He created 76 chances last season in EPL. Source: List of players who created most chances. His set pieces are ridiculously good. Goals are one part of the equation and just because Giroud and Tammy couldn't score from the insane amount of chances created by Willian isn't his fault. Also, Frank plays differently to how we play. Auba, Pepe, Laca will thrive with Willian behind them as we don't have anyone who made it into top 15 of that "most chances created list". He already has 2 assists in the league- 28% of the total amount of assists he made for Chelsea in all of last season. There is a reason why you signed Werner-to get your goal scored tally closer to your chances created tally.
As for Silva being fast, will he be able to keep up with Adama Traore, Aubameyangs in EPL? Azpilicueta is faster and pulled a hammie trying to keep up with Auba in the FA cup final. You conceded 54 goals last season, we conceded 48 with one of the worst defences in the league with our second goalie in goal towards the end of the season. A 35-year-old, slower Silva + Kepa will somehow make you better defensively? Don’t get me wrong you will score bucket loads with Havertz, Ziyech, Werner, Pulisic but will you be able to keep clean sheets when needed against the likes of City, Liverpools, etc?
Also, I did say people might laugh at my opinion and call me nutter but we have a world class striker, one of the highest chance creators from last season, a rock solid defence with one of the top goalies from last season. Last season we had an unusual number of draws but we lost less matches than Chelsea, Leicester, etc. Our squad has plenty of players who can come in and do a job too. Hence my optimism. You don't have to agree with it but doesn't mean you can start calling me stupid lol.
Also, this is a different era with a different manager, with different tactical mentality. Don't compare 2017 Post Wenger era to Mikel's.
How do you know that despite all the best players in the world, Frank won't have a disaster of a season? He certainly underperformed last season tactically with a very good squad. Give Arteta your squad from last season and he challenges for title imo.
Finally, aim for the top, you might get 4th. Aim for 4th, you know how that ended for us last season peeps. Just my friendly opinion.
Original post by Zürich
Unai Emery disasterclass in La Liga today against newly promoted Huesca.
This guy man...
This guy man...
Haha Emery is finished.
Did anyone see the PSG vs Marseille fight at the end of the match? I thought fight night was on lol. Check it out, if you haven't already
:
Original post by MrChill
So you call me stupid for just voicing my opinion about Willian. That's uncalled for and frankly quite disrespectful. But, I don't know what's going on in your life so I will let it go this time.
I don't understand why you are trying to compare Havertz to Willian-I never mentioned anything about Havertz or Ziyech. Also, I would like to point out that Havertz played as centre forward last season for a number of games and scored- so the numbers are skewed. Also, Havertz doesn't help with defending and win possession like Willian. So he isn't as well rounded like Willian, albeit with much higher ceiling. Pulisic is better imo. But, compared to Ozil Willian is a beast.
I based my opinion on Willian's all-around attacking + defensive ability. He created 76 chances last season in EPL. Source: List of players who created most chances. His set pieces are ridiculously good. Goals are one part of the equation and just because Giroud and Tammy couldn't score from the insane amount of chances created by Willian isn't his fault. Also, Frank plays differently to how we play. Auba, Pepe, Laca will thrive with Willian behind them as we don't have anyone who made it into top 15 of that "most chances created list". He already has 2 assists in the league- 28% of the total amount of assists he made for Chelsea in all of last season. There is a reason why you signed Werner-to get your goal scored tally closer to your chances created tally.
As for Silva being fast, will he be able to keep up with Adama Traore, Aubameyangs in EPL? Azpilicueta is faster and pulled a hammie trying to keep up with Auba in the FA cup final. You conceded 54 goals last season, we conceded 48 with one of the worst defences in the league with our second goalie in goal towards the end of the season. A 35-year-old, slower Silva + Kepa will somehow make you better defensively? Don’t get me wrong you will score bucket loads with Havertz, Ziyech, Werner, Pulisic but will you be able to keep clean sheets when needed against the likes of City, Liverpools, etc?
Also, I did say people might laugh at my opinion and call me nutter but we have a world class striker, one of the highest chance creators from last season, a rock solid defence with one of the top goalies from last season. Last season we had an unusual number of draws but we lost less matches than Chelsea, Leicester, etc. Our squad has plenty of players who can come in and do a job too. Hence my optimism. You don't have to agree with it but doesn't mean you can start calling me stupid lol.
Also, this is a different era with a different manager, with different tactical mentality. Don't compare 2017 Post Wenger era to Mikel's.
How do you know that despite all the best players in the world, Frank won't have a disaster of a season? He certainly underperformed last season tactically with a very good squad. Give Arteta your squad from last season and he challenges for title imo.
Finally, aim for the top, you might get 4th. Aim for 4th, you know how that ended for us last season peeps. Just my friendly opinion.
I don't understand why you are trying to compare Havertz to Willian-I never mentioned anything about Havertz or Ziyech. Also, I would like to point out that Havertz played as centre forward last season for a number of games and scored- so the numbers are skewed. Also, Havertz doesn't help with defending and win possession like Willian. So he isn't as well rounded like Willian, albeit with much higher ceiling. Pulisic is better imo. But, compared to Ozil Willian is a beast.
I based my opinion on Willian's all-around attacking + defensive ability. He created 76 chances last season in EPL. Source: List of players who created most chances. His set pieces are ridiculously good. Goals are one part of the equation and just because Giroud and Tammy couldn't score from the insane amount of chances created by Willian isn't his fault. Also, Frank plays differently to how we play. Auba, Pepe, Laca will thrive with Willian behind them as we don't have anyone who made it into top 15 of that "most chances created list". He already has 2 assists in the league- 28% of the total amount of assists he made for Chelsea in all of last season. There is a reason why you signed Werner-to get your goal scored tally closer to your chances created tally.
As for Silva being fast, will he be able to keep up with Adama Traore, Aubameyangs in EPL? Azpilicueta is faster and pulled a hammie trying to keep up with Auba in the FA cup final. You conceded 54 goals last season, we conceded 48 with one of the worst defences in the league with our second goalie in goal towards the end of the season. A 35-year-old, slower Silva + Kepa will somehow make you better defensively? Don’t get me wrong you will score bucket loads with Havertz, Ziyech, Werner, Pulisic but will you be able to keep clean sheets when needed against the likes of City, Liverpools, etc?
Also, I did say people might laugh at my opinion and call me nutter but we have a world class striker, one of the highest chance creators from last season, a rock solid defence with one of the top goalies from last season. Last season we had an unusual number of draws but we lost less matches than Chelsea, Leicester, etc. Our squad has plenty of players who can come in and do a job too. Hence my optimism. You don't have to agree with it but doesn't mean you can start calling me stupid lol.
Also, this is a different era with a different manager, with different tactical mentality. Don't compare 2017 Post Wenger era to Mikel's.
How do you know that despite all the best players in the world, Frank won't have a disaster of a season? He certainly underperformed last season tactically with a very good squad. Give Arteta your squad from last season and he challenges for title imo.
Finally, aim for the top, you might get 4th. Aim for 4th, you know how that ended for us last season peeps. Just my friendly opinion.
problem is we have all seen it over the years that people get their hopes up over a good run and then that hope just comes crashing down around them.
arsenal essentially need to be hitting a 90+ point season and you justify that after a good run. good runs happen to all teams but as jam stayed you suddenly need to best all the lower teams in order to get those sorts of tallies. arsenal are some way from that consistency unfortunately. I reckon you'll end up with 73 points or so which will be a good season all things considered.
also arteta needs to prove himself over the season to be talking so highly about him. it is likely he can based on his start so far but it's quite early to be scoffing at other managers like Frank when you consider similar reasons such as tenure and Chelsea's situation last year with the ban.
nothing wrong with hope but it's the hope that kills
lol challenge for title with our squad from last season when we lost our best player while Abraham and Pulisic were injured for nearly half the season. That is nonsense of the highest order. I get annoyed with Frank's decisions but we should have finished 8th with the squad we had under those circumstances.
I'll quote you when season is done.
The drivel about Willian, when Costa was there Willian wasn't scoring goals for fun either and Costa was a bigger killer in the box than both of your strikers. Willian was in a 3-4-3 under Conte too and tbh your hoof to fast strikers via the defence is basically what Conte did. It's nothing new or revolutionary. what killed us was not having the right players. I guess looking at it your attack goals wise are at the same level as Chelsea's when we won the title.
Anyway I'll see end of season, will quote you then.
I'll quote you when season is done.
The drivel about Willian, when Costa was there Willian wasn't scoring goals for fun either and Costa was a bigger killer in the box than both of your strikers. Willian was in a 3-4-3 under Conte too and tbh your hoof to fast strikers via the defence is basically what Conte did. It's nothing new or revolutionary. what killed us was not having the right players. I guess looking at it your attack goals wise are at the same level as Chelsea's when we won the title.
Anyway I'll see end of season, will quote you then.
(edited 3 years ago)
Is Auba being paid 400k a week with his new contract?
Original post by Zerforax
Is Auba being paid 400k a week with his new contract?
meanwhile Werner on 270k.
Tbh I like Pepe and Saka too. I can't lie I think their attack man for man is near to Liverpools. They got the depth too compared to you lot.
Original post by Zerforax
Is Auba being paid 400k a week with his new contract?
Wouldnt surprise me, at least he's worth it unlike that horrid, fraudulent, leeching Turk we have....
Like this Arsenal team now, lots of big and good personalities like Auba, Maitland Niles, Luiz, Tierney. Havent felt like that since Santi/Podolski and co left.
But we need to cut the wage bill down obviously. I can see 5 departures in the coming weeks. 3 defenders, Torreria, El Neny etc. Not bad players at all btw, just not up to the level we aspire to.
Original post by bj27
meanwhile Werner on 270k.
Tbh I like Pepe and Saka too. I can't lie I think their attack man for man is near to Liverpools. They got the depth too compared to you lot.
Tbh I like Pepe and Saka too. I can't lie I think their attack man for man is near to Liverpools. They got the depth too compared to you lot.
Werner overpriced at 270k given he's not produced outside of Germany really. But good player obviously, in my fantasy team at least lol....
Pepe we overpayed for, he's behind man like Willian for now
My first team
Leno
Bellerin Luiz Gabriel Saliba Tierney
Xhaka AMN
Willian Auba Saka
Bench: Lacazette, Pepe, Torreira, Holding, Kolasinac, GK
Arteta done it man
Leno
Bellerin Luiz Gabriel Saliba Tierney
Xhaka AMN
Willian Auba Saka
Bench: Lacazette, Pepe, Torreira, Holding, Kolasinac, GK
Arteta done it man
(edited 3 years ago)
Pepe was clearly overpaid for but I think banishing him to the bench where he is out of the firing line has helped his confidence.
As a Chelsea fan I know how it feels to overpay for signings anyway.
Think Tierney at LCB works because he's good in the build up from the back. Your Wingbacks are more like inverted wing backs, in fact the entire way you play in terms of shape is basically like Guardiola's team when they are in possession, you just sit back and counter attack way more than they do.
As a Chelsea fan I know how it feels to overpay for signings anyway.
Think Tierney at LCB works because he's good in the build up from the back. Your Wingbacks are more like inverted wing backs, in fact the entire way you play in terms of shape is basically like Guardiola's team when they are in possession, you just sit back and counter attack way more than they do.
Aouar in. Party time.
Aouar has shades of Nasri but better. I used to love Nasri, that snood and the wind up merchant attitude.
Aouar has shades of Nasri but better. I used to love Nasri, that snood and the wind up merchant attitude.
Aouar looks like he can develop to become a much more complete player than Ozil.
Original post by Zürich
Werner overpriced at 270k given he's not produced outside of Germany really. But good player obviously, in my fantasy team at least lol....
Pepe we overpayed for, he's behind man like Willian for now
Pepe we overpayed for, he's behind man like Willian for now
Lol @ Arsenal fans talking about players on overpriced salaries. Ozil? Aubameyang?
Original post by Zerforax
Lol @ Arsenal fans talking about players on overpriced salaries. Ozil? Aubameyang?
Well yes but we have this as an issue, top players wont want to play for a top6 team without being compensated.
As for Ozil, I cant defend that on any grounds. Shocking mismanagement
Original post by Zürich
Well yes but we have this as an issue, top players wont want to play for a top6 team without being compensated.
As for Ozil, I cant defend that on any grounds. Shocking mismanagement
As for Ozil, I cant defend that on any grounds. Shocking mismanagement
Wenger used to bring in players and then make them into top players. Probably how he kept the wage bill structure so well disciplined for years.
Original post by Zürich
Well yes but we have this as an issue, top players wont want to play for a top6 team without being compensated.
As for Ozil, I cant defend that on any grounds. Shocking mismanagement
As for Ozil, I cant defend that on any grounds. Shocking mismanagement
Yh you end up with your average players demanding and being given high wages as a result if they start seeing other players just handed big wages from day one especially when their performances don't warrant it. Will then be hard to shift them on until their contracts run out and you can't generate funds. United are suffering from this with their galactico strategy a few years back but it hasn't impacted them too much given they generate huge revenues anyway. Liverpool have a high wage bill but was organically built up with players earning their big wages, no one can demand a big wage until they earn it and players know that. Arsenal on the other hand cannot afford this especially with their tight owners and lack of CL revenue.
Original post by samir12
Yh you end up with your average players demanding and being given high wages as a result if they start seeing other players just handed big wages from day one especially when their performances don't warrant it. Will then be hard to shift them on until their contracts run out and you can't generate funds. United are suffering from this with their galactico strategy a few years back but it hasn't impacted them too much given they generate huge revenues anyway. Liverpool have a high wage bill but was organically built up with players earning their big wages, no one can demand a big wage until they earn it and players know that. Arsenal on the other hand cannot afford this especially with their tight owners and lack of CL revenue.
Pretty much this.
It's a hard trap to get out of, you find yourself not that much better off than a club like Everton in that we need to break into the CL money but need to pay a premium for any player. The key of course is to get a top manager like Klopp who can put a team together on a non-CL budget, break into the CL and then not squander the revenue on trash. I hope Arteta is that man but to be truthful he needs to break into the CL very soon as the longer we go without, the more we are seen as a "Europa club" and start signing the Peter Crouch and Jermaine Defoe players of this world....
Liverpool had this issue for some time in signings like Acquillani/Carroll/Joe Cole led to a team of a CL budget but with poor quality. Probably Brendan Rodgers & Suarez breaking into the CL places had more of a legacy than you give credit for.
But Arsenal are a long way off winning the title again of course. Further away than LFC for most of 1990-2020. These days you need a flawless season to win it. Christ it's already been 16 years already
(edited 3 years ago)
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