Funding for DClinPsy?
I'm an international student and I will be completing my MSci in Neuroscience and Psychology from the University of Bristol. Since I will have done 4 years of study in the UK already, will I be eligible for NHS funding for a DClinPsy or will I still be an international student and have to pay the full fees myself?
I'm pretty sure that if you get a place on the DClinPsy (which you'd need to gain some clinical experience before applying to anyway) then you'd receive funding as anyone enrolled on the programme is employed by the NHS as a Trainee Clinical Psychologist.
Maybe where you're an international student there might be some clause in place that stipulates you would need to then practice in the UK upon completion of the Doctorate for a certain amount of years. That's the case with some routes of funding for the DEdPsy programme (3 years study then 2 years in full-time employment in the UK or you have to pay everything back - puts a lot of pressure on if you were to fail though!)
Maybe where you're an international student there might be some clause in place that stipulates you would need to then practice in the UK upon completion of the Doctorate for a certain amount of years. That's the case with some routes of funding for the DEdPsy programme (3 years study then 2 years in full-time employment in the UK or you have to pay everything back - puts a lot of pressure on if you were to fail though!)
You should talk to the courses that you intend to apply to but generally it depends on whethere or not you have the right to work in the UK without restriction? You can't do a DClinpsy on a student visa, it's a job (if it is an NHS funded place) and you need to be able to have the right to fully work.
Hey!!
I am also planning to do MSc. Psych Conversion and eventually a DClinPsy in the UK itself. I have been reading about the funding aspect of the doctorate programme for international students. In general, they are ineligible to even apply for the positions which are funded by the NHS. So only the self-funded options are available for international students which are very expensive.
But I think there is a way through. I am not sure how far this is true in the practical sense but after completing postgrad on a student visa Tier 4, one has to apply for a job that should constitute as relevant work experience for doctorate application (support worker, research assistant, assistant psychologist, etc.).
As per upcoming rule or amendment, the International students will be able to extend their stay for 2 years, post graduating in order to find a job.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/10/uk-work-visas-for-foreign-graduates-to-be-extended-to-two-years#:~:text=International%20students%20are%20to%20be,work%20for%20only%20four%20months.
In order to enrol in these jobs, one has to convert Tier 4 Student Visa to Tier 2 Work Visa and with successfully entering into such jobs.
"The new Immigration Rules introduced on 29 March 2019 allow students to apply to switch into the Tier 2 category in the UK 3 months prior to the expected completion date of their course. You must be applying from the UK and should apply prior to the expiry of your current Tier 4 visa." Source:
https://immigrationbarrister.co.uk/switching-from-tier-4-student-to-tier-2-work-visa/#:~:text=The%20new%20Immigration%20Rules%20introduced,your%20current%20Tier%204%20visa.
I visited Oxford's criterion for DClinPsy. The course is fully funded and no self-funded applicants are eligible as it stated, "The Oxford Course only accepts candidates who are already eligible to live and work in the UK on a permanent basis. Applicants are required to have home fees status and should meet NHS bursary eligibility."
I think it rules out any international student's application with "overseas fee" status
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/Clin20Oxford.html#funding
The only way out that I can see is, "Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)" status, must be acquired by international personnel in order to become eligible for funded DClinPsy. This is to convert the status from "overseas fee" to "home-fee" status and to live and work in the UK without immigration restrictions.
For Fee Status: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/entryresidence.html
It states that in order to have "home fee" status, one has to settle in the UK (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status)
One such option is to get ILR (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#settled)
Now, the main thing is to convert one's status from Tier 4 Student Visa after completing postgrad to ILR status. It should take around 5 years after completing graduation. It means after graduation, one has to secure a job to get Tier 2 Work Visa and has to attain a "continuous residence" while earning your days through. You can apply if:
1. you have a Tier 2 (General) visa
2. you’ve been living and working in the UK for 5 years and spent no more than 180 days outside the UK in any 12 months (‘continuous residence’)
3. your employer (sponsor) still needs you for your job - they’ll need to provide a document confirming this
4. your job pays £35,800 or more (unless you’re exempt from the ‘minimum earnings threshold’)
5. you get paid the relevant salary listed in the Codes of Practice
https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/you-have-a-work-visa/tier-2-general-visa
Moreover, the min. pay criteria should be waived for psychologist or support worker roles as they fall under the exception of the concerned rule
[i.e., has a shortage of workers]
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list
So, to sum up,
1. Complete post-graduate from the UK (Tier 4 Student Visa)
2. Get a job within two years after graduation (related job which constitute relevant work exp. for DClinPsy) Tier 2 Work Visa
3. Remain working for five years with continuous residence status
4. Apply for ILR
4. Apply for DClinPsy
I am also planning to do MSc. Psych Conversion and eventually a DClinPsy in the UK itself. I have been reading about the funding aspect of the doctorate programme for international students. In general, they are ineligible to even apply for the positions which are funded by the NHS. So only the self-funded options are available for international students which are very expensive.
But I think there is a way through. I am not sure how far this is true in the practical sense but after completing postgrad on a student visa Tier 4, one has to apply for a job that should constitute as relevant work experience for doctorate application (support worker, research assistant, assistant psychologist, etc.).
As per upcoming rule or amendment, the International students will be able to extend their stay for 2 years, post graduating in order to find a job.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/10/uk-work-visas-for-foreign-graduates-to-be-extended-to-two-years#:~:text=International%20students%20are%20to%20be,work%20for%20only%20four%20months.
In order to enrol in these jobs, one has to convert Tier 4 Student Visa to Tier 2 Work Visa and with successfully entering into such jobs.
"The new Immigration Rules introduced on 29 March 2019 allow students to apply to switch into the Tier 2 category in the UK 3 months prior to the expected completion date of their course. You must be applying from the UK and should apply prior to the expiry of your current Tier 4 visa." Source:
https://immigrationbarrister.co.uk/switching-from-tier-4-student-to-tier-2-work-visa/#:~:text=The%20new%20Immigration%20Rules%20introduced,your%20current%20Tier%204%20visa.
I visited Oxford's criterion for DClinPsy. The course is fully funded and no self-funded applicants are eligible as it stated, "The Oxford Course only accepts candidates who are already eligible to live and work in the UK on a permanent basis. Applicants are required to have home fees status and should meet NHS bursary eligibility."
I think it rules out any international student's application with "overseas fee" status
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/Clin20Oxford.html#funding
The only way out that I can see is, "Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR)" status, must be acquired by international personnel in order to become eligible for funded DClinPsy. This is to convert the status from "overseas fee" to "home-fee" status and to live and work in the UK without immigration restrictions.
For Fee Status: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/chpccp/entryresidence.html
It states that in order to have "home fee" status, one has to settle in the UK (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status)
One such option is to get ILR (https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#settled)
Now, the main thing is to convert one's status from Tier 4 Student Visa after completing postgrad to ILR status. It should take around 5 years after completing graduation. It means after graduation, one has to secure a job to get Tier 2 Work Visa and has to attain a "continuous residence" while earning your days through. You can apply if:
1. you have a Tier 2 (General) visa
2. you’ve been living and working in the UK for 5 years and spent no more than 180 days outside the UK in any 12 months (‘continuous residence’)
3. your employer (sponsor) still needs you for your job - they’ll need to provide a document confirming this
4. your job pays £35,800 or more (unless you’re exempt from the ‘minimum earnings threshold’)
5. you get paid the relevant salary listed in the Codes of Practice
https://www.gov.uk/settle-in-the-uk/y/you-have-a-work-visa/tier-2-general-visa
Moreover, the min. pay criteria should be waived for psychologist or support worker roles as they fall under the exception of the concerned rule
[i.e., has a shortage of workers]
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list
So, to sum up,
1. Complete post-graduate from the UK (Tier 4 Student Visa)
2. Get a job within two years after graduation (related job which constitute relevant work exp. for DClinPsy) Tier 2 Work Visa
3. Remain working for five years with continuous residence status
4. Apply for ILR
4. Apply for DClinPsy
Technically you could do that. However, you are staking a lot on things going to plan and that is in the context of Brexit and an impending global recession where there are going to be lots of graduates competing for those slots.
I can talk about my experiences as someone who manages clinical psychology staff, and have had several assistant psychologists (who have gone onto DClinPsys) and recent trainees work under me. You are going to be up against many very intelligent, highly motivated graduates who have local experience, connections who are in a place where they can work for free and/or live with families. They won't have to pay back expensive loans (as the Student Loan company waives repayments under a threshold), whereas you may be pressured to take on any job just to survive.
I have no idea who you are and your personal circumstances, but do be aware that this is more about a competition for limited places, than a question of "If I do A+B+C then I will get my desired outcome". It is a huge risk, especially if you don't come from money, but only you can make that decision.
I can talk about my experiences as someone who manages clinical psychology staff, and have had several assistant psychologists (who have gone onto DClinPsys) and recent trainees work under me. You are going to be up against many very intelligent, highly motivated graduates who have local experience, connections who are in a place where they can work for free and/or live with families. They won't have to pay back expensive loans (as the Student Loan company waives repayments under a threshold), whereas you may be pressured to take on any job just to survive.
I have no idea who you are and your personal circumstances, but do be aware that this is more about a competition for limited places, than a question of "If I do A+B+C then I will get my desired outcome". It is a huge risk, especially if you don't come from money, but only you can make that decision.
Original post by Lord Asriel
Technically you could do that. However, you are staking a lot on things going to plan and that is in the context of Brexit and an impending global recession where there are going to be lots of graduates competing for those slots.
I can talk about my experiences as someone who manages clinical psychology staff, and have had several assistant psychologists (who have gone onto DClinPsys) and recent trainees work under me. You are going to be up against many very intelligent, highly motivated graduates who have local experience, connections who are in a place where they can work for free and/or live with families. They won't have to pay back expensive loans (as the Student Loan company waives repayments under a threshold), whereas you may be pressured to take on any job just to survive.
I have no idea who you are and your personal circumstances, but do be aware that this is more about a competition for limited places, than a question of "If I do A+B+C then I will get my desired outcome". It is a huge risk, especially if you don't come from money, but only you can make that decision.
I can talk about my experiences as someone who manages clinical psychology staff, and have had several assistant psychologists (who have gone onto DClinPsys) and recent trainees work under me. You are going to be up against many very intelligent, highly motivated graduates who have local experience, connections who are in a place where they can work for free and/or live with families. They won't have to pay back expensive loans (as the Student Loan company waives repayments under a threshold), whereas you may be pressured to take on any job just to survive.
I have no idea who you are and your personal circumstances, but do be aware that this is more about a competition for limited places, than a question of "If I do A+B+C then I will get my desired outcome". It is a huge risk, especially if you don't come from money, but only you can make that decision.
Thanks for the response, I totally agree with you over the impending uncertainties, that's one reason I couldn't make my mind. There are both aspects of the uncertainty I suppose. Brexit will reduce the favourable benefit to Non-UK, EU applicants and will equate them with other international applicants, which indeed allows others better opportunities to fill the income gap thus created in the UK economy. However, the other side is the Covid pandemic repercussions. It'll mitigate the favourable chances of international students. But, as the government is inclined to increase the influx of international students to 30% till 2030, they'll be liberating international educational schemes in days to come.
I am aware that DClinPsy is very competitive and localities will surely have an advantage both financially and otherwise. But should that be a reason to refrain to even try and deviate from approaching? Have you come across any international student to make it DClinPsy? As far as my circumstances are concerned, I'll be able to finance myself till MSc. Conversion without any burden of the loan but I would require a starting job (research assistant, support worker, etc.,) after graduation to make my way through. I have no such financial responsibilities other than sustaining myself.
Original post by NowhereMan.111
I am aware that DClinPsy is very competitive and localities will surely have an advantage both financially and otherwise. But should that be a reason to refrain to even try and deviate from approaching? Have you come across any international student to make it DClinPsy? As far as my circumstances are concerned, I'll be able to finance myself till MSc. Conversion without any burden of the loan but I would require a starting job (research assistant, support worker, etc.,) after graduation to make my way through. I have no such financial responsibilities other than sustaining myself.
In theory it shouldn't put you off, but in practice it ought to really make you think hard about possible alternatives that are more viable.
I have known some international students that are self funded and a few that were NHS funded trainees. The 'international' NHS funded trainees all had something unusual about their circumstance that allowed them to work without restrictions (e.g. one had British citizenship through marriage, another had right to stay through ancestry etc).
However, I know a lot of students who have come over from non EU countries paying huge fees to study psychology undergrad and had hoped to secure work and ultimately get onto a DClinPsy. None have been able to make that work and have had to either return to their home countries or radically change their plans. Undergrad courses don't go out of their way to spell this out, as they benefit from international fees, and aren't on the hook for whatever happens next. In fact there has been a recent thread on ClinPsy that explains some of the barriers here: https://www.clinpsy.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=195667&sid=a10ba7ba0f8d7486f4f2ac1edb56822c#p195667
This is such an important discussion, thank you both for clarifying some things! UK now has a Global Talent Visa which, in my reading, provides you with unrestricted right to work. My plan is to apply for this visa and (if I get into DClinPsy) become eligible for NHS-funded placement. However, this still means I don't meet the "home fee status" criterion, but luckily this visa allows you to apply for settlement after 3 years - so fingers crossed!
(edited 1 year ago)
Original post by kat_pr
This is such an important discussion, thank you both for clarifying some things! UK now has a Global Talent Visa which, in my reading, provides you with unrestricted right to work. My plan is to apply for this visa and (if I get into DClinPsy) become eligible for NHS-funded placement. However, this still means I don't meet the "home fee status" criterion, but luckily this visa allows you to apply for settlement after 3 years - so fingers crossed!
You have to ensure that you meet the criteria and from looking at them quickly, I don't think someone who hasn't started the doctorate would qualify. You will probably have to either try it and see the outcome or seek legal advice though to be sure
Original post by kat_pr
This is such an important discussion, thank you both for clarifying some things! UK now has a Global Talent Visa which, in my reading, provides you with unrestricted right to work. My plan is to apply for this visa and (if I get into DClinPsy) become eligible for NHS-funded placement. However, this still means I don't meet the "home fee status" criterion, but luckily this visa allows you to apply for settlement after 3 years - so fingers crossed!
From what I have read of the GTV, you already have to be an accomplished leader in a given field.
https://www.gov.uk/global-talent-researcher-academic
In Psychology that would probably mean you are already a leading clinician overseas in which case you would not come in via a DClinPsy, but would have to go down the international route via the HCPC.
Or you would be a PhD/ Post doctoral researcher, in which case you would probably be better off coming in as a research psychologist then working for a while until your resident status is clearer, and this would give you a chance to get UK clinical experience while you work, and those publications you would be generating would help you significantly in a DClinPsy app.
I can't imagine it would be for undergraduate/ masters students, who haven't risen to the above level yet, otherwise that visa route will be flooded.
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