The Student Room Group

School Sets

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Original post by jonathanemptage
I do kind of but don't say oh your middle set you top set because being bottom set can demorlise pupils it's humiliating knowing your among the least able in the school which can lead to behaviour problems which of course makes its harder for teachers and the pupils who want to learn and improve. What I don't agree with is the tired foundation and higher papers at GCSE why not just give everyone the same paper and not limit them to a 5 that agin is demoralising. When I was at school I was in foundation maths we had letter grades there were 3 tiers (foundation intermediate and higher) and we were told we could only get a D equivalent to a 3 so essentially we were told we could fail that was all there was to it so yeah get rid of foundation and higher papers and let the pupils pass with the grade they deserve.
Wales still use three tiers (for Maths). I agree that the capping of grades is a problem. I suppose with a unified paper the grading process is perhaps less accurate. In a foundation paper you'd have X questions at G grade, Y questions at grade F difficulty and so on. Fewer grades mean a higher chance that your overall score matches the difficulty that you are working to. Whereas an overall paper could have 1 question at G grade, 2 at F, 3 for E etc. Someone could get confused at a D or E level question, but smash the A* one and then also fumble on the C grade question. They pick up marks on others so end up with a B overall. They can produce A* difficulty maths but also didn't revise much and fluffed far more basic questions. The grade they come out of doesn't match the level they are working to as closely because there are fewer questions at that level to assess standards. This isn't a comment on fairness, just accurate assessments
Original post by Talkative Toad
I never stated that sets are the best thing ever and can agree with the idea that no sets can sometimes be better but can't agree with the idea that it's better for subjects like maths and science unless we scrap tiers and make the content more accessible for all in my opinion.


But it is not better for subjects like maths and science. If you have some pupils doing a different paper, put them in a different class, just like you put people sitting geography in a different class to people sitting Art. For everyone else doing the same paper, put them in the same classes all mixed up and deploy mixed ability teaching strategies before sitting back and seeing your average scores go up!
Original post by hotpud
But it is not better for subjects like maths and science. If you have some pupils doing a different paper, put them in a different class, just like you put people sitting geography in a different class to people sitting Art. For everyone else doing the same paper, put them in the same classes all mixed up and deploy mixed ability teaching strategies before sitting back and seeing your average scores go up!


Fair enough then I can agree with this as long as pupils doing different papers (foundation Vs higher, Triple Vs combined etc) are in different classes then mixing people of different abilities can work in my opinion.
Original post by hotpud
But it is not better for subjects like maths and science. If you have some pupils doing a different paper, put them in a different class, just like you put people sitting geography in a different class to people sitting Art. For everyone else doing the same paper, put them in the same classes all mixed up and deploy mixed ability teaching strategies before sitting back and seeing your average scores go up!

I'm interested in this post given you have also said it's not longer about passing exams here.
Original post by Talkative Toad
I never stated that sets are the best thing ever and can agree with the idea that no sets can sometimes be better but can't agree with the idea that it's better for subjects like maths and science unless we scrap tiers and make the content more accessible for all in my opinion.

I'm curious about how we can make content more accessible for all. Do you have any thoughts about how this might work?
Original post by 04MR17
I'm curious about how we can make content more accessible for all. Do you have any thoughts about how this might work?


The difficulty in content that being assessed, things hotpud has suggested like supporting struggling students, changing the our attitude towards exams (how they are done, how many exams etc) I don't like the current way exams (in secondary school only, not uni) are done.
Original post by 04MR17
I'm interested in this post given you have also said it's not longer about passing exams here.


Sadly, it is still about passing exams, but that is not the only measure of success. There was once a time when a school could offer the worst educational experience imaginable, but if their results were satisfactory they would get a good judgement. The requirements for schools is much broader now and the new Ofsted framework talks about a curriculum for life with links made between subjects and also the wider world around us.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-inspection-handbook-eif/school-inspection-handbook#evaluating-the-quality-of-education-1
Original post by Talkative Toad
The difficulty in content that being assessed, things hotpud has suggested like supporting struggling students, changing the our attitude towards exams (how they are done, how many exams etc) I don't like the current way exams (in secondary school only, not uni) are done.

Okay, and do you think that policy would sit well with voters?
Original post by 04MR17
Okay, and do you think that policy would sit well with voters?


Not sure if I'm being honest.
Original post by 04MR17
I'm curious about how we can make content more accessible for all. Do you have any thoughts about how this might work?


Yes - and Ofsted are on it. You make it relevant. You start asking that big question "Why?" Why are we learning what we are learning? How does it fit into a wider world or curriculum? That makes it accessible. Perhaps you were wondering how we support all students? Well, I stated a load of interventions above so feel free to check them out. But ultimately I think we need to be realistic about what a comprehensive education for all can practically offer, especially at the end of a period of time which has seen real spending on schools fall year after year.
Original post by hotpud
I am dodging the question because it is a poor question. To paraphrase, you are effectively asking the question - how do I teach MFL and Maths to different pupils in the same class? Obviously you can't teach foundation maths and top tier maths to the same class because they are different papers, with different syllabuses and different assessments, just like History and Geography or Art and Science.


You have avoided my question - do you teach Maths in a secondary school?

When did you last watch a lesson in a Primary classroom?
Original post by Muttley79
You have avoided my question - do you teach Maths in a secondary school?

When did you last watch a lesson in a Primary classroom?

No I don't teach maths but do teach a maths based subject.

I last saw a primary less around 5 years ago.

Now I've come clean please post links to evidence that backs up your claim that setting sees better outcomes for maths and science students.

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