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Do I need 4 A-levels to apply to medicine in the Republic of Ireland?

I am a UK student currently planning for my second gap year and looking where I can apply internationally. Ireland would be a great choice since everyone speaks English.

However, every time I look at entry requirements for applicant presenting A-levels, they always talk about 4 subjects. Each university I've looked at has a similar entry requirement of converting your 3 highest A2 levels to their entry points and then convert your lowest A2 level at lower points, or converting 3 A2 levels and then an AS level at lower points. Nothing on the website explicitly states that I need 4 A-levels, so does this mean I am not eligible to apply because I have only 3 A-level grades, or does this mean that they will still be counted without a fourth A-level, but I will be at a disadvantage for having a lower score than most other applicants?

(And yes I know that applying to medicine in the Republic of Ireland is incredibly difficult but I hope I can get in with a good HPAT score)
(edited 1 year ago)

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Original post by ZadTheLad
I am a UK student currently planning for my second gap year and looking where I can apply internationally. Ireland would be a great choice since everyone speaks English.

However, every time I look at entry requirements for applicant presenting A-levels, they always talk about 4 subjects… …Nothing on the website explicitly states that I need 4 A-levels, so does this mean I am not eligible to apply because I have only 3 A-level grades, or does this mean that they will still be counted without a fourth A-level, but I will be at a disadvantage for having a lower score than most other applicants?

(And yes I know that applying to medicine in the Republic of Ireland is incredibly difficult but I hope I can get in with a good HPAT score)

Parent here of someone who has applied to do Medicine in Ireland, waiting to see whether an offer will emerge on Thursday 8th September for September 2022(!) entry. State school candidate, sat three A level subjects. No AS or EPQ.

We had similar questions to yours and did a fair bit of reading. Towards the end of this document http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Applying_to_CAO_GCE_2022.pdf, it is stated that, “Applicants are scored on the basis of a maximum of 4 different subject results at A and/or AS level.” Three subjects with great grades may be enough… However, if you have “only” three subjects, it’s hard to score enough in a system that expects you to present four subjects. It’s definitely a disadvantage. Given that UK universities only count three subjects, it’s also hard to rationalise why Irish universities seem to demand more of students from England (where doing three A-levels is the default for the vast majority) than Oxford, Cambridge and UK medical schools require. Time will tell.

If you’re planning to apply from the UK for undergraduate Medicine in the Republic of Ireland, here’s what we’ve worked out so far:

- you must have passed English, Maths and a modern foreign language at GCSE level

- apply to the HPAT in November, take the test in February; for 2022 entry, the test was online and you could sit it from home (in the UK) with remote proctoring https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/sit

- apply to the CAO by 01 February http://www.cao.ie/index.php and follow the instructions in this document for applicants presenting with GCE / GCSE exams http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Information_Applicants_GCE_GCSE.pdf

- you’ll need at least A* A* A at A-level and one of the subjects needs to be maths, so you can get the extra 25 points, bringing you to 551 CAO points

Scoring is explained here: http://www.cao.ie/index.php?page=scoring&s=gce
Each A* at A-level converts to 185 points.
An A is 156 points.
If one of the scored subjects is maths, you get an extra 25 points.
Total points above 551 (before the HPAT result is added) are moderated [explained in the booklet].

In 2021, candidates offered a place needed at least 737 points, in Dublin the minimum was 741, higher in some med schools. So, with A* A* A including maths, you’d have needed a HPAT score of 186 to have any chance of a place (and even then it might not have generated an offer). Looking at the percentile curves from previous years here https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/results that equates to a HPAT score in the top 5% - easier said than done.

I also recommend reading through this detailed guide http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Applying_to_CAO_GCE_2022.pdf

The booklet for EU applicants for 2022 entry is here: http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/UGMedEntry2022.pdf Table 5 shows the points that were needed for 2021 entry.

That’s a long reply, but hopefully helpful. Best of luck!
(edited 1 year ago)
For all students applying via CAO, including those in Ireland, the maximum score from the final school exams is 625 (600 plus a bonus 25 for maths at the appropriate level).

The alevel weighting on these points was designed when people did AS exams prior to their A2 and as such, a 4th a-level carries very little extra weight over an additional AS. Northern Ireland normally still continue to do AS exams in 4 subjects, before dropping to 3 subjects at A2 so are more suited to fitting into the CAO scoring. As England dropped AS exams the only options to achieve the highest points are an additional A level or an EPQ, which is scored as an AS.
Offer received yesterday to study Medicine in Ireland. Therefore, presenting just three A-levels (i.e. no AS or EPQ) does not disqualify an application. We were unable to find confirmation of that in writing ahead of the CAO offers, so this post aims to remove that ambiguity for others.

However, it is extremely hard to score enough, if you only have three subjects. The offer followed (unexpected!) results of A*A*A*, among them Maths, which brought an extra 25 points, combined with a top percentile HPAT score. I state that to set expectations, not to brag; without a stratospheric HPAT result, I don’t think the numbers would add up.

No materials were purchased for HPAT prep btw. Doing the UCAT, the BMAT and the free HPAT practice paper did the job. Good luck to anyone reading this who wants to give it a go.
Reply 4
Original post by DoMedInIreland
Offer received yesterday to study Medicine in Ireland. Therefore, presenting just three A-levels (i.e. no AS or EPQ) does not disqualify an application. We were unable to find confirmation of that in writing ahead of the CAO offers, so this post aims to remove that ambiguity for others.

However, it is extremely hard to score enough, if you only have three subjects. The offer followed (unexpected!) results of A*A*A*, among them Maths, which brought an extra 25 points, combined with a top percentile HPAT score. I state that to set expectations, not to brag; without a stratospheric HPAT result, I don’t think the numbers would add up.

No materials were purchased for HPAT prep btw. Doing the UCAT, the BMAT and the free HPAT practice paper did the job. Good luck to anyone reading this who wants to give it a go.

Congratulations
I'm sure your child has done great in Hpat
I am on gap year
Achieved A*,A*,A,B in bio math, chem, EPQ
What score will I get with these grades?

Taking my bmat now.

I am planning to take hpat, but heard its really really hard.
Please let me know what materials you have used
Original post by Sbsai
I am on gap year
Achieved A*,A*,A,B in bio math, chem, EPQ
What score will I get with these grades?

First of all, did you take English, Maths and a modern foreign language at GCSE level? If not, your application won’t be valid.

The scoring table is here: http://www.cao.ie/index.php?page=scoring&s=gce
A* in bio = 185
A* in maths = 185+ 25 bonus points
A in chem = 156
B for EPQ (scored like AS) = 22

Adding those up:
185 + 185 + 25 + 156 + 22 = 573 points.

Per Table 3 in this booklet http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/UGMedEntry2022.pdf that score of 573 moderates down to 555 points before the HPAT score is added on.

Table 4 in the same booklet includes a row showing how a moderated score of 555 works in combination with HPAT. You’d probably need a HPAT score of 190 or above to have a chance of a place.

Good luck.
You can see the minimum points needed for 2022 entry to undergrad medicine in this CAO document: http://www2.cao.ie/points/l8.php
Not every applicant with the specified points was offered a place.

736 points - Galway
738 points - Cork
741 points - RCSI Dublin
743 points - University College Dublin
745 points - Trinity College Dublin

As you can see, getting a Medicine place at one of the Dublin universities typically requires higher points than would be needed for Galway or Cork.

You’d have needed at least 181 points from the HPAT, meaning a result that is - roughly - equal to or better than 90% of all HPAT Ireland 2022 candidates. In 2022, a HPAT score of 187 was 95th percentile; when added to your 555 points that MIGHT have got you a place at RCSI Dublin, but would not have resulted in a first-round offer of a place at UCD or TCD.
https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/files/HPAT_-_Ireland_2022_Candidate_Performance.pdf

You asked about HPAT materials. We bought none, just used the free sample paper provided by the HPAT test people (ACER). If you have what it takes to do well at the UCAT and/or BMAT, the HPAT is worth a try.
Reply 7
Original post by DoMedInIreland
You can see the minimum points needed for 2022 entry to undergrad medicine in this CAO document: http://www2.cao.ie/points/l8.php
Not every applicant with the specified points was offered a place.

736 points - Galway
738 points - Cork
741 points - RCSI Dublin
743 points - University College Dublin
745 points - Trinity College Dublin

As you can see, getting a Medicine place at one of the Dublin universities typically requires higher points than would be needed for Galway or Cork.

You’d have needed at least 181 points from the HPAT, meaning a result that is - roughly - equal to or better than 90% of all HPAT Ireland 2022 candidates. In 2022, a HPAT score of 187 was 95th percentile; when added to your 555 points that MIGHT have got you a place at RCSI Dublin, but would not have resulted in a first-round offer of a place at UCD or TCD.
https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/files/HPAT_-_Ireland_2022_Candidate_Performance.pdf

You asked about HPAT materials. We bought none, just used the free sample paper provided by the HPAT test people (ACER). If you have what it takes to do well at the UCAT and/or BMAT, the HPAT is worth a try.


Thanks...
Preparing for bmat now.
Need all the luck
Reply 8
Original post by DoMedInIreland
Parent here of someone who has applied to do Medicine in Ireland, waiting to see whether an offer will emerge on Thursday 8th September for September 2022(!) entry. State school candidate, sat three A level subjects. No AS or EPQ.

We had similar questions to yours and did a fair bit of reading. Towards the end of this document http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Applying_to_CAO_GCE_2022.pdf, it is stated that, “Applicants are scored on the basis of a maximum of 4 different subject results at A and/or AS level.” Three subjects with great grades may be enough… However, if you have “only” three subjects, it’s hard to score enough in a system that expects you to present four subjects. It’s definitely a disadvantage. Given that UK universities only count three subjects, it’s also hard to rationalise why Irish universities seem to demand more of students from England (where doing three A-levels is the default for the vast majority) than Oxford, Cambridge and UK medical schools require. Time will tell.

If you’re planning to apply from the UK for undergraduate Medicine in the Republic of Ireland, here’s what we’ve worked out so far:

- you must have passed English, Maths and a modern foreign language at GCSE level

- apply to the HPAT in November, take the test in February; for 2022 entry, the test was online and you could sit it from home (in the UK) with remote proctoring https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/sit

- apply to the CAO by 01 February http://www.cao.ie/index.php and follow the instructions in this document for applicants presenting with GCE / GCSE exams http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Information_Applicants_GCE_GCSE.pdf

- you’ll need at least A* A* A at A-level and one of the subjects needs to be maths, so you can get the extra 25 points, bringing you to 551 CAO points

Scoring is explained here: http://www.cao.ie/index.php?page=scoring&s=gce
Each A* at A-level converts to 185 points.
An A is 156 points.
If one of the scored subjects is maths, you get an extra 25 points.
Total points above 551 (before the HPAT result is added) are moderated [explained in the booklet].

In 2021, candidates offered a place needed at least 737 points, in Dublin the minimum was 741, higher in some med schools. So, with A* A* A including maths, you’d have needed a HPAT score of 186 to have any chance of a place (and even then it might not have generated an offer). Looking at the percentile curves from previous years here https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/results that equates to a HPAT score in the top 5% - easier said than done.

I also recommend reading through this detailed guide http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/Applying_to_CAO_GCE_2022.pdf

The booklet for EU applicants for 2022 entry is here: http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2022/UGMedEntry2022.pdf Table 5 shows the points that were needed for 2021 entry.

That’s a long reply, but hopefully helpful. Best of luck!

Sorry I am resurrecting the thread here briefly. You said minimum A * A* A for a-levels. Can you clarify where you found that information? I am looking at the CAO page and am struggling to find that. I have grades of A*, A, A with A in my a-levels year - is this enough? It would bring my points to 548 so I would need a stratospheric HPAT score. But does it disqualify me? Also did not buy any prep materials for any of it? Not UCAT or BMAT either?
Original post by medicboi
Sorry I am resurrecting the thread here briefly. You said minimum A * A* A for a-levels. Can you clarify where you found that information? I am looking at the CAO page and am struggling to find that. I have grades of A*, A, A with A in my a-levels year - is this enough? It would bring my points to 548 so I would need a stratospheric HPAT score. But does it disqualify me? Also did not buy any prep materials for any of it? Not UCAT or BMAT either?

The post was outlining the scores needed “if you have “only” three subjects” at A level (i.e. not a 4th, nor an EPQ). In that scenario, producing A star + A star + A grades with at least one of them being maths is effectively a requirement - even though it is definitely not written down anywhere else - because that, together with a stratospheric HPAT result, is the only way to have any chance of hitting the points currently needed to get an offer to study medicine in Ireland.

The CAO messaging talks about certain subjects and minimum scores, but that’s just the entry ticket. They word it like that because, theoretically, points can go down as well as up, depending on the number of applicants to a given course in a given year and what they scored.

The points needed to get an offer for undergrad Medicine (or indeed any other course) the previous year are available online. Try the CAO website and/or the relevant Uni site. Do the maths… After that, just do your best and have a good Plan B at the ready just in case.
Also did not buy any prep materials for any of it? Not UCAT or BMAT either?”

I’m a parent btw, not a student!

Specifically for HPAT, our student only did one(!) of the free practice papers published on the test provider’s website.

UCAT prep was during the 6 week summer holidays, using one of those online prep programmes (Medify access was for a month I think, definitely no more than 6 weeks).

A lot of BMAT was aligned with school work. The test was around Hallowe’en of Y13 and there were plenty of free past papers on the Cambridge website. No additional resources were used.

Having done UCAT and BMAT is very helpful for the HPAT. However, I’m now told that a Medify equivalent commonly used by lots of candidates in Ireland (and beyond) for HPAT prep is called MedEntry. “We” didn’t know about MedEntry - honestly, we weren’t looking for additional materials, because life was busy enough with studying - but lots of those studying medicine in Ireland speak highly of MedEntry prep.

Good luck.
(edited 4 months ago)
Reply 11
Ah understood, and thank you so much for your answer. To be honest I am not quite sure, at the moment. I have just graduated from UCL (Natsci) but as I missed all the admission tests for the UK my options are limited. I am looking at Ireland and potentially Europe as I don't want to delay further but as I am gathering the HPAT system is geared towards the Irish system, as you need to get perfect A levels to have an acceptably high HPAT score. (A*,A,A here (and A in AS level). My quandary with Europe is that I am not too sure how easy is it for medical students to re-enter the UK system post study.
You have until 19 January 2024 to apply for 2024 entry. First, you must apply to the CAO (the UCAS equivalent) as that number is required for the HPAT registration. https://www.cao.ie/apply.php
More info on the HPAT registration process is here: https://hpat-ireland.acer.org/registration

If you’ll have turned 23 by next Monday, you can apply as a mature student. No idea whether that helps, you’d need to read a bit more yourself.

You can change your CAO preference list free of charge in May or June, so don’t sweat too much about which universities to put on the list in which order right now.

Other random points:

1.

Applying for Medicine in the United States requires a primary undergraduate degree. Lots of Americans (with a degree already in hand) study undergraduate Medicine in Ireland. There are also loads of international students from all over the world… Meaning, having a degree already and/or coming from a different country is not at all unusual.

2.

I don’t have a medical background so don’t know what’s involved, but the nationality of NHS hospital doctors is shown on page 14 of this report and over 2,300 are Irish, so their qualifications are clearly acceptable: https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7783/CBP-7783.pdf

3.

You could probably do some of your work experience in the UK if you’re able to arrange that. That would give you NHS experience too.

4.

Doctors earn more in Ireland / you might like it!

Reply 13
Sorry to jump in but I need to know if I can apply to Irish medicine colleges on my predicted A level grades for 2024 entry .
My final A level exams are due this year in June
Can I apply via CAO this Feb ?
Yes, you can apply to the CAO now. You’d also need to register for the HPAT and sit that test in mid-Feb.

The CAO has no interest in predicted grades or personal statements.
Reply 15
Original post by DoMedInIreland
Yes, you can apply to the CAO now. You’d also need to register for the HPAT and sit that test in mid-Feb.

The CAO has no interest in predicted grades or personal statements.

Thank you 🙏😊
Reply 16
Original post by DoMedInIreland
Yes, you can apply to the CAO now. You’d also need to register for the HPAT and sit that test in mid-Feb.

The CAO has no interest in predicted grades or personal statements.

Thank you for all your help so far! I am starting to prep for the HPAT now and I am finding it insanely difficult, the patterns on Mednetry seem incredibly hard and If the really thing is the same I really do have no hope! I am starting to lose faith here. You mentioned that you (son or daughter) did both the UCAT and the HPAT, did they find the HPAT harder or easier? As for the non verbal reasoning section I am really not feeling good at all.
Thinking of everyone sitting this year’s HPAT. I hope it goes (or has gone) well. Keep calm, keep working through the questions. Your aggregate score matters, but don’t get worked up about or spend more time on any one question than it deserves based on the time allocation/marks. Good luck.
Reply 18
Original post by DoMedInIreland
Thinking of everyone sitting this year’s HPAT. I hope it goes (or has gone) well. Keep calm, keep working through the questions. Your aggregate score matters, but don’t get worked up about or spend more time on any one question than it deserves based on the time allocation/marks. Good luck.

Thank you! I decided to apply for GEM entry instead through GAMSAT!
How interesting! Please update in due course to let us know how you get on. Best of luck to you.

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