Dance / MT Diploma or degree - are they worth it?
I’m a mum if a 16 year old dance student and we’re trying to navigate an industry we know little about and hoping for some advice.
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
Hi @Chocolabrado,
I'm a 1st year BA Hons Dance student at the University of Lincoln. Your question is one that is very relevant to what I experienced so I will do my utmost best to help support and offer some guidance. I was exactly in the same position myself last year - I've come from a background of dance training from a young age and knew this was something I wanted to continue... however I didn't know whether I wanted this to follow a line of performance college training (eg bird college, performers), a conservative (eg trinity laban) or university degree based. Your absolutely right to be concerned with the cost of student debt and it was something that is an important consideration. Firstly, it is important to remind your son that he doesn't need to set his long-term career in stone - this is something i have only just come to realise whilst at University. Plans can massively change and what your son might enjoy doing now may be very different in a few years.... so I cannot emphasise enough that the decision should be based upon what makes your son most happy as there is no point completing a 3-year degree for the sake of having a 'degree' if its not something he feels right for him. Secondly, there are definitely pros and cons to a university degree but one thing that I really love about my Dance degree at the University of Lincoln is that there is so much more than just the degree itself offered, if your willing to grab the opportunities. For example, alongside my studies I'm also training for and completing Level 4 IDTA Contemporary-modern Jazz teaching training (in short - a 3-year qualification that allows me to step out into the industry and effectively teach/ run a studio). As far as what sort of training is suitable, it really is an individual choice. For me, I always thought I wanted to be in a studio in London, in that dance competitive environment, however I came to learn that for me that was not the correct choice and I would much rather be in a room full of people who aren't trying to do what I call 'survival of the fittest!' and appreciate the art for what it is. Another mention should be that a Dance university degree does not only include technique training, it also is a combination of choreography, written analysis, dance anatomy, screen & digital dance, opportunities to travel abroad and so many more to give you a broad range of skills that prepare you to enter the industry vs just technique vocational training would just prepare your body to be physically ready for auditions etc. Additionally, it is important to remember that although it seems like a massive one way or the other decision, you don't neccassily have to close any doors down. Whilst the majority of my time is focused on my degree, outside of this I still partake in classes with guest choreographers, undertake dance related work experience back home, attend auditions (I still go to Pineapple studios to audition for Disney and fulfill my dreams of being a parade performer!)
The decision is a massive one, and trust me I had many sleepless nights trying to decide. However, at the end of the day it is trying not to think ahead too far and choosing something that is right and your son is happy with for now because the dance industry is so fast changing. Furthermore, I would just like to point out that the creative skills you learn on your degree are invaluable, not only from a dance career side but are so broad that even if you decide that a dance orientated career isn't for you in the future, the skills you learn, from critical analysis, media editing and networking can be transferred to any job
I hope this helps
Abigail
I'm a 1st year BA Hons Dance student at the University of Lincoln. Your question is one that is very relevant to what I experienced so I will do my utmost best to help support and offer some guidance. I was exactly in the same position myself last year - I've come from a background of dance training from a young age and knew this was something I wanted to continue... however I didn't know whether I wanted this to follow a line of performance college training (eg bird college, performers), a conservative (eg trinity laban) or university degree based. Your absolutely right to be concerned with the cost of student debt and it was something that is an important consideration. Firstly, it is important to remind your son that he doesn't need to set his long-term career in stone - this is something i have only just come to realise whilst at University. Plans can massively change and what your son might enjoy doing now may be very different in a few years.... so I cannot emphasise enough that the decision should be based upon what makes your son most happy as there is no point completing a 3-year degree for the sake of having a 'degree' if its not something he feels right for him. Secondly, there are definitely pros and cons to a university degree but one thing that I really love about my Dance degree at the University of Lincoln is that there is so much more than just the degree itself offered, if your willing to grab the opportunities. For example, alongside my studies I'm also training for and completing Level 4 IDTA Contemporary-modern Jazz teaching training (in short - a 3-year qualification that allows me to step out into the industry and effectively teach/ run a studio). As far as what sort of training is suitable, it really is an individual choice. For me, I always thought I wanted to be in a studio in London, in that dance competitive environment, however I came to learn that for me that was not the correct choice and I would much rather be in a room full of people who aren't trying to do what I call 'survival of the fittest!' and appreciate the art for what it is. Another mention should be that a Dance university degree does not only include technique training, it also is a combination of choreography, written analysis, dance anatomy, screen & digital dance, opportunities to travel abroad and so many more to give you a broad range of skills that prepare you to enter the industry vs just technique vocational training would just prepare your body to be physically ready for auditions etc. Additionally, it is important to remember that although it seems like a massive one way or the other decision, you don't neccassily have to close any doors down. Whilst the majority of my time is focused on my degree, outside of this I still partake in classes with guest choreographers, undertake dance related work experience back home, attend auditions (I still go to Pineapple studios to audition for Disney and fulfill my dreams of being a parade performer!)
The decision is a massive one, and trust me I had many sleepless nights trying to decide. However, at the end of the day it is trying not to think ahead too far and choosing something that is right and your son is happy with for now because the dance industry is so fast changing. Furthermore, I would just like to point out that the creative skills you learn on your degree are invaluable, not only from a dance career side but are so broad that even if you decide that a dance orientated career isn't for you in the future, the skills you learn, from critical analysis, media editing and networking can be transferred to any job
I hope this helps
Abigail
Hi Abigail, thank you so much for taking the time to write your detailed answer - your viewpoint is really interesting to have. I will need to read it through a few times and then I’ll probably have a few more questions if I may!
Thank you once again - I really appreciate it.
Thank you once again - I really appreciate it.
Original post by Chocolabrado
Hi Abigail, thank you so much for taking the time to write your detailed answer - your viewpoint is really interesting to have. I will need to read it through a few times and then I’ll probably have a few more questions if I may!
Thank you once again - I really appreciate it.
Thank you once again - I really appreciate it.
Hello,
No worries, I'm glad that I can share my experience with you and hopefully provide some insight into some of the possible options. Please feel free to drop any other questions below and I will do my best to get back to you as quickly as possible
Abigail
Hiya, One of the main differences between degree and diploma is that a degree can be transferred to teaching in a school for example - a diploma apparently can't. The training is more or less the same.
You may want to look into the difference between university dance/MT courses and drama school dance/MT courses. In University there are lectures and written elements of the course, despite it being a more practical course than other university courses. In drama school (like conservatoires), you can expect a more practical based course and more contact teaching hours (tends to be 30 hours a week for the first two years, third year is usually preparing students for the industry and preparing for showcases which agents come to in order to scout actors/singers/dancers. This preparation for the industry is something which I have heard you do not really get in University dance/MT courses.)
Bird is a really good drama school for dance or MT with a dance focus. Mountview has a very good MT course (although Mountview is very expensive)
Artsed and Royal central do great MT courses too, and GSA in guildford. Also look at italia conti.
Drama schools are usually the same price as uni. They are much harder to get into, so many students apply several times before getting in.
You may want to look into the difference between university dance/MT courses and drama school dance/MT courses. In University there are lectures and written elements of the course, despite it being a more practical course than other university courses. In drama school (like conservatoires), you can expect a more practical based course and more contact teaching hours (tends to be 30 hours a week for the first two years, third year is usually preparing students for the industry and preparing for showcases which agents come to in order to scout actors/singers/dancers. This preparation for the industry is something which I have heard you do not really get in University dance/MT courses.)
Bird is a really good drama school for dance or MT with a dance focus. Mountview has a very good MT course (although Mountview is very expensive)
Artsed and Royal central do great MT courses too, and GSA in guildford. Also look at italia conti.
Drama schools are usually the same price as uni. They are much harder to get into, so many students apply several times before getting in.
(edited 10 months ago)
Original post by Anonymous0305
Hiya, One of the main differences between degree and diploma is that a degree can be transferred to teaching in a school for example - a diploma apparently can't. The training is more or less the same.
You may want to look into the difference between university dance/MT courses and drama school dance/MT courses. In University there are lectures and written elements of the course, despite it being a more practical course than other university courses. In drama school (like conservatoires), you can expect a more practical based course and more contact teaching hours (tends to be 30 hours a week for the first two years, third year is usually preparing students for the industry and preparing for showcases which agents come to in order to scout actors/singers/dancers. This preparation for the industry is something which I have heard you do not really get in University dance/MT courses.)
Bird is a really good drama school for dance or MT with a dance focus. Mountview has a very good MT course (although Mountview is very expensive)
Artsed and Royal central do great MT courses too, and GSA in guildford. Also look at italia conti.
Drama schools are usually the same price as uni. They are much harder to get into, so many students apply several times before getting in.
You may want to look into the difference between university dance/MT courses and drama school dance/MT courses. In University there are lectures and written elements of the course, despite it being a more practical course than other university courses. In drama school (like conservatoires), you can expect a more practical based course and more contact teaching hours (tends to be 30 hours a week for the first two years, third year is usually preparing students for the industry and preparing for showcases which agents come to in order to scout actors/singers/dancers. This preparation for the industry is something which I have heard you do not really get in University dance/MT courses.)
Bird is a really good drama school for dance or MT with a dance focus. Mountview has a very good MT course (although Mountview is very expensive)
Artsed and Royal central do great MT courses too, and GSA in guildford. Also look at italia conti.
Drama schools are usually the same price as uni. They are much harder to get into, so many students apply several times before getting in.
Thank you - this has helped consolidate a few bits of info I’ve picked up along the way!
From what you’ve said I think my son would prefer a diploma at a dance/drama school (he prefers the practical side).
We hope to go to the open days for all the schools you have mentioned. At the moment his first choices are Laine and - bit of jump here - Institute of Arts Barcelona. I’d be interested in your views on either/both of these. (Laine seems pretty expensive to me but if he qualified for the DADA funding it could be an option).
Do you think a drama/dance school gets you more ready than a university course for a performing career afterwards?
You're welcome! Glad if I could help in any way
Drama school definitely gets you more qualified! From what I've heard, university courses are not really recognised by industry professionals and a couple of people I know who are enrolled in university drama courses say the course is pointless. It really depends on your preference, but if you want to go into a career in the arts then drama school is really the option rather than uni.
Just to clarify, at drama schools they usually offer a BA course at drama school, and sometimes a diploma. At drama school, the BA course is practical like a diploma course. A BA course at a uni is less practical. A BA course simply means you get a recognised degree out of it, and a diploma means you don't get a degree, it is a qualification that cannot be transferred.
The training in diploma and BA courses at drama school are practically the same (from what I've been told), "degree" doesn't mean written work, it's only a better recognised/transferable qualification.
I haven't really looked into those particular schools yet, I plan to look into them more over summer. I do know, however, that Laine only offer diplomas which you don't get a degree from, and I want the option of teaching open for later, so Laine isn't for me. Also, the minimum age for studying diplomas at Laine is 16, rather than 18 like other drama schools, so I'm not sure why that is but you could find out.
Drama school definitely gets you more qualified! From what I've heard, university courses are not really recognised by industry professionals and a couple of people I know who are enrolled in university drama courses say the course is pointless. It really depends on your preference, but if you want to go into a career in the arts then drama school is really the option rather than uni.
Just to clarify, at drama schools they usually offer a BA course at drama school, and sometimes a diploma. At drama school, the BA course is practical like a diploma course. A BA course at a uni is less practical. A BA course simply means you get a recognised degree out of it, and a diploma means you don't get a degree, it is a qualification that cannot be transferred.
The training in diploma and BA courses at drama school are practically the same (from what I've been told), "degree" doesn't mean written work, it's only a better recognised/transferable qualification.
I haven't really looked into those particular schools yet, I plan to look into them more over summer. I do know, however, that Laine only offer diplomas which you don't get a degree from, and I want the option of teaching open for later, so Laine isn't for me. Also, the minimum age for studying diplomas at Laine is 16, rather than 18 like other drama schools, so I'm not sure why that is but you could find out.
One more thing - I'm not sure if you're aware of foundation courses - I wasn't at first and they confused me a little. Foundation courses are between 6 months and a year, and their purpose is to prepare you for the audition for the BA course next year. The general idea is to apply to the foundation course after getting rejected from the BA courses and it will prepare you for the audition and mean you're still in education (Some people find it scary taking a gap year and arranging what classes to do and getting a job etc; it's easier to be in full time education).
I have personally decided against doing a foundation course in my gap year because I don't feel it's worth the money and it apparently doesn't actually raise your chances of getting in next year by that much. However, I met some people who absolutely loved their foundation course and said they'd recommend doing it, and others who really didn't enjoy their foundation course at all (the same course, same class, just different people's opinions.) It's worth looking into so you're aware of the options in case you don't get in first time.
I have personally decided against doing a foundation course in my gap year because I don't feel it's worth the money and it apparently doesn't actually raise your chances of getting in next year by that much. However, I met some people who absolutely loved their foundation course and said they'd recommend doing it, and others who really didn't enjoy their foundation course at all (the same course, same class, just different people's opinions.) It's worth looking into so you're aware of the options in case you don't get in first time.
Original post by Chocolabrado
I’m a mum if a 16 year old dance student and we’re trying to navigate an industry we know little about and hoping for some advice.
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
Hi!
I am about to enter my third year of a Level 6 Trinity Diploma - and I can say that it was the best choice for me! Personally I feel that diplomas are better to go straight into the performing arts industry if you want as many practical elements as possible, degrees are typically more academic/ written work based with not as much time spent performing. To give more insight, I do about 10-15% written work spread throughout the year, the rest is practical work. The written stuff really isn't demanding at all. Alongside the diploma you can do DDE (Diploma in Dance Education), I'm doing mine with ISTD but others organisations such as IDTA (like previous reply mentioned above) offer it too, it just depends which institution/ university you are studying your main course with. You can also do the DDE with an external centre, you just contact them and they will register you.
There is also something called DaDA (Dance and Drama Awards) which offer scholarships to certain students on performing arts courses. I have a full DaDA and I pay nothing for my tuition (fees are almost £15,000!) and also get as a maintenance grant each year which covers half of my accommodation costs and I will not have to pay back. So when I graduate I will be in no debt! DaDA isn't something you can get with degrees, so you'd have to get a student loan or pay up front.
Although the word 'degree' sounds more impressive than 'diploma' to people from everyday life, I wouldn't say degrees are more highly respected than diplomas in the actual industry if you're talking to people who know their stuff - Trinity Diplomas are Level 6, same as degree (Trinity also offer 2yr Level 5 diplomas).
Find out more here: https://www.trinitycollege.com/qualifications/PPAD/level-6-musical-theatre
Upon graduating, there is also the option to top up the Trinity Diploma to a Bachelor of Arts degree with Middlesex University, which adds on another year but it is totally distance-based learning so you can work at the same time (My friend did it whilst performing on a cruise ship!) As for degrees, you might get more in terms of an all-rounded student experience due to the abundance of societies and extra-curricular activities you can do which aren't related to the performing arts. What places is he looking at, if any?
To get a good job in performing arts/ musical theatre you'd want to do a professional training course, not just take free classes. some may have done this but it's quite rare!
Hope this helps
Original post by Chocolabrado
I’m a mum if a 16 year old dance student and we’re trying to navigate an industry we know little about and hoping for some advice.
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
Looking ahead to higher education we’re wondering what are the pros and cons for him doing a dance or MT diploma or degree. I guess he would graduate better prepared for auditions and industry-ready but also with a considerable sum of student debt. I assume a degree could also be useful later on if he wanted to teach?
However, would it be a crazy idea to spend the same sort of money taking a wide range of classes at, say, Pineapple Dance Studios and going for auditions? Sort of tailor make your training? Like I say I don’t know anything about all of this so it might be a stupid idea, but I’m hoping someone with more knowledge will point out the flaws in this plan. Thanks
I think the important thing to remember is that student finance debt is not the same as other debt. I'd recommend reading more about it here: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/8-things-you-should-know-about-your-student-loan--2
In essence though, unlike other debt:
•
It's almost impossible to default on (unless the graduate is self-employed and fraudulently misreports their earnings, or leaves the country without telling SFE to evade repaying their loan)
•
After 40 years (or when you reach state pension age, if that is sooner), the remaining loan amount is written off entirely
•
Graduates only make repayments when earning over the repayment threshold, and the repayments are proportional to their income and if PAYE employees, will be just taken out of their paycheques along with NI contributions and income tax - so they will never pay more than they can afford to and normally doesn't take any involvement from them to keep it sorted
•
It doesn't affect credit rating
So it's quite a different prospect than paying up front for classes elsewhere, compared to getting a degree. The cost of the latter is amortised over many years, and if the graduate is underemployed or unemployed they won't be making repayments anyway. Plus as noted, if not paid in full within 40 years (or by state pension age if sooner) it gets written off (most graduates end up with at least some of their loan written off - few repay it in full).
I don't know enough about that sector to specifically comment on what kinds of classes may be more beneficial for employment but from a financial perspective, it's a very different prospect at least!
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