GDL vs 'LLM' ... or GDL + LLM vs 'MA' Law
Extremely confusing title, I know, but let me explain.
I am currently a final year Sociology and Politics student at Uni of Manchester, expected to graduate with a high first (80%). I want to try and go into Law (Barrister), but know it is extremely difficult and expensive. I am well aware before embarking on a Bar course (of which I would only do if I received a scholarship from an Inn), I need to have completed a Qualifying Law Degree. This is basically the GDL, a senior status LLB or the few 2 year QLD MAs that exist.
The GDL does not qualify for postgraduate funding, which is an issue, and I am worried about the quality of teaching I'd receive. I'd have to do it part time or remote as I am going to need to work full time to fund it. University of Law seems okay, but at the minute I am leaning towards the Birkbeck or Cardiff GDLs (as real Universities). The main issue here is money.
On the other hand, Uni of Law offers an 'MA' GDL, which seems ideal, but then means I could not get post-grad funding if I wanted to do a real LLM after my GDL, which is a possibility I would like to have open. And again, I have my reservations about a for-profit university with low entry requirements.
The final option is a 2-year MA/ LLM (they use different titles annoyingly), which is basically a senior status LLB, offered by Sheffield, Bristol and Birkbeck. This seams ideal, as it allows me to do a QLD, qualify for posgrad funding, and allow me the option of further study if I fail to get a scholarship for the Bar Course (or Pupillage after!). Unfortunately, the issue here again is money, as these courses are ridiculously expensive (Bristol for example is 27k, plus 2 years living costs). I can't justify a course as expensive as the BCL for what is really a fast-track LLB. The Open Uni is also offering a cheap 2 year LLB.
There is of course the option of doing a GDL part time, self-funded, and then go onto do a real LLM. This is actually more what I am leaning towards at the minute, and it seems quite a lot of Barristers do this. I am well aware that in terms of LLM's, Oxford is by far way ahead with the BCL, then Cambridge, with Durham and LSE quite far behind that. No other LLM's seem to merit any real advantage in terms of qualifying as a Barrister, and that also discouraged me from potentially shelling out for Sheffield or Bristol. There is obvs the major issue that Oxbridge, Durham and LSE are very very difficult to get into.
Just some notes on my current background / experience - I got 2 A stars and an A (plus A in EPQ) at A-Level from my local comprehensive, and an Oxbridge (failed obvs lol) interview to match. I have done a mini pupillage, volunteer at a legal advice centre, and have worked part time throughout uni. I also have really good work experience within politics (think tanks, MPs, etc.).
Given all that, I am basically asking, do I risk self-funding a GDL on the basis of potentially doing an Oxbridge / Durham / LSE LLM, or do I do the 'MA' GDL at a potentially poor quality institution, or do I bite the bullet and shell out for the two year senior LLB 'LLM' and just hope that gives me enough cred to gain scholarship.
Any help/advice is really appreciated! If money wasn't an issue I think the answer is clear (GDL then real LLM), but thats just not how life works. The reason why I am so insistent on doing a masters is because if I fail at scholarship/pupillage I'd love to do a PhD and try again later. It just seems the amount of people who convert from a humanities to becoming a Barrister is quite small, and those not from Oxbridge even smaller still, and so advice is fairly sparse.
This article lays out some of the advs / costs of both routes but I am still really quite unsure. Thanks for reading all this, it is really driving me crazy
https://www.bbk.ac.uk/school/law/which-course-is-right-for-me
I am currently a final year Sociology and Politics student at Uni of Manchester, expected to graduate with a high first (80%). I want to try and go into Law (Barrister), but know it is extremely difficult and expensive. I am well aware before embarking on a Bar course (of which I would only do if I received a scholarship from an Inn), I need to have completed a Qualifying Law Degree. This is basically the GDL, a senior status LLB or the few 2 year QLD MAs that exist.
The GDL does not qualify for postgraduate funding, which is an issue, and I am worried about the quality of teaching I'd receive. I'd have to do it part time or remote as I am going to need to work full time to fund it. University of Law seems okay, but at the minute I am leaning towards the Birkbeck or Cardiff GDLs (as real Universities). The main issue here is money.
On the other hand, Uni of Law offers an 'MA' GDL, which seems ideal, but then means I could not get post-grad funding if I wanted to do a real LLM after my GDL, which is a possibility I would like to have open. And again, I have my reservations about a for-profit university with low entry requirements.
The final option is a 2-year MA/ LLM (they use different titles annoyingly), which is basically a senior status LLB, offered by Sheffield, Bristol and Birkbeck. This seams ideal, as it allows me to do a QLD, qualify for posgrad funding, and allow me the option of further study if I fail to get a scholarship for the Bar Course (or Pupillage after!). Unfortunately, the issue here again is money, as these courses are ridiculously expensive (Bristol for example is 27k, plus 2 years living costs). I can't justify a course as expensive as the BCL for what is really a fast-track LLB. The Open Uni is also offering a cheap 2 year LLB.
There is of course the option of doing a GDL part time, self-funded, and then go onto do a real LLM. This is actually more what I am leaning towards at the minute, and it seems quite a lot of Barristers do this. I am well aware that in terms of LLM's, Oxford is by far way ahead with the BCL, then Cambridge, with Durham and LSE quite far behind that. No other LLM's seem to merit any real advantage in terms of qualifying as a Barrister, and that also discouraged me from potentially shelling out for Sheffield or Bristol. There is obvs the major issue that Oxbridge, Durham and LSE are very very difficult to get into.
Just some notes on my current background / experience - I got 2 A stars and an A (plus A in EPQ) at A-Level from my local comprehensive, and an Oxbridge (failed obvs lol) interview to match. I have done a mini pupillage, volunteer at a legal advice centre, and have worked part time throughout uni. I also have really good work experience within politics (think tanks, MPs, etc.).
Given all that, I am basically asking, do I risk self-funding a GDL on the basis of potentially doing an Oxbridge / Durham / LSE LLM, or do I do the 'MA' GDL at a potentially poor quality institution, or do I bite the bullet and shell out for the two year senior LLB 'LLM' and just hope that gives me enough cred to gain scholarship.
Any help/advice is really appreciated! If money wasn't an issue I think the answer is clear (GDL then real LLM), but thats just not how life works. The reason why I am so insistent on doing a masters is because if I fail at scholarship/pupillage I'd love to do a PhD and try again later. It just seems the amount of people who convert from a humanities to becoming a Barrister is quite small, and those not from Oxbridge even smaller still, and so advice is fairly sparse.
This article lays out some of the advs / costs of both routes but I am still really quite unsure. Thanks for reading all this, it is really driving me crazy
https://www.bbk.ac.uk/school/law/which-course-is-right-for-me
(edited 4 months ago)
If you are 100% certainly the bar is for you and not being a solicitor - a huge decision given most lawyers are solicitors, then perhaps have a look at CVs of barristers from good chambers where you might like to work to see what they do.
If you might become a solicitor and as you have not yet during your non law degree secured a TC which would fund your PGDL and SQE years, then a PGDL with SQE and masters with £12k post grad funding might be wise as that will cover most of the fees if you can live at home and take you through to the SQE1 but not cover the SQE fees themselves with the funding. You can then tack SQE2 on after SQE1 course. The City Consortium firms are using BPP for the PGDL and then SQE courses through which they put their future trainee solicitors for example - https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf
If you are certain you want to go to the bar it sounds like doing the PGDL part time with a masters whilst you work and also have a post grad student loan might be a good start whilst you continue to apply to lots of chambers for pupillage.
If you might become a solicitor and as you have not yet during your non law degree secured a TC which would fund your PGDL and SQE years, then a PGDL with SQE and masters with £12k post grad funding might be wise as that will cover most of the fees if you can live at home and take you through to the SQE1 but not cover the SQE fees themselves with the funding. You can then tack SQE2 on after SQE1 course. The City Consortium firms are using BPP for the PGDL and then SQE courses through which they put their future trainee solicitors for example - https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf
If you are certain you want to go to the bar it sounds like doing the PGDL part time with a masters whilst you work and also have a post grad student loan might be a good start whilst you continue to apply to lots of chambers for pupillage.
Original post by 17Student17
If you are 100% certainly the bar is for you and not being a solicitor - a huge decision given most lawyers are solicitors, then perhaps have a look at CVs of barristers from good chambers where you might like to work to see what they do.
If you might become a solicitor and as you have not yet during your non law degree secured a TC which would fund your PGDL and SQE years, then a PGDL with SQE and masters with £12k post grad funding might be wise as that will cover most of the fees if you can live at home and take you through to the SQE1 but not cover the SQE fees themselves with the funding. You can then tack SQE2 on after SQE1 course. The City Consortium firms are using BPP for the PGDL and then SQE courses through which they put their future trainee solicitors for example - https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf
If you are certain you want to go to the bar it sounds like doing the PGDL part time with a masters whilst you work and also have a post grad student loan might be a good start whilst you continue to apply to lots of chambers for pupillage.
If you might become a solicitor and as you have not yet during your non law degree secured a TC which would fund your PGDL and SQE years, then a PGDL with SQE and masters with £12k post grad funding might be wise as that will cover most of the fees if you can live at home and take you through to the SQE1 but not cover the SQE fees themselves with the funding. You can then tack SQE2 on after SQE1 course. The City Consortium firms are using BPP for the PGDL and then SQE courses through which they put their future trainee solicitors for example - https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/rs2jvepv/the-city-consortium-solicitor-training-programme.pdf
If you are certain you want to go to the bar it sounds like doing the PGDL part time with a masters whilst you work and also have a post grad student loan might be a good start whilst you continue to apply to lots of chambers for pupillage.
I am quite certain on the bar ... I think you are right, doing the GDL part-time (whilst working full-time) makes the most sense. Hoping to go on and do an LLM after, before securing a bar scholarship
Original post by lawless-valve
Extremely confusing title, I know, but let me explain.
I am currently a final year Sociology and Politics student at Uni of Manchester, expected to graduate with a high first (80%). I want to try and go into Law (Barrister), but know it is extremely difficult and expensive. I am well aware before embarking on a Bar course (of which I would only do if I received a scholarship from an Inn), I need to have completed a Qualifying Law Degree. This is basically the GDL, a senior status LLB or the few 2-year LLMs that exist.
The GDL does not qualify for postgraduate funding, which is an issue, and I am worried about the quality of teaching I'd receive. I'd have to do it part time or remote as I am going to need to work full time to fund it. University of Law seems okay, but at the minute I am leaning towards the Birkbeck or Cardiff GDLs (as real Universities). The main issue here is money.
On the other hand, Uni of Law offers an 'MA' GDL, which seems ideal, but then means I could not get post-grad funding if I wanted to do a real LLM after my GDL, which is a possibility I would like to have open. And again, I have my reservations about a for-profit university with low entry requirements.
The final option is a 2-year MA/ LLM (they use different titles annoyingly), which is basically the GDL, a few optional modules and a dissertation, offered by Sheffield, Bristol and Birkbeck. This seams ideal, as it allows me to do a QLD, qualify for posgrad funding, and do a real LLM / masters to allow me the option of further study if I fail to get a scholarship for the Bar Course (or Pupillage after!). Unfortunately, the issue here again is money, as these courses are ridiculously expensive (Bristol for example is 27k, plus 2 years living costs). I can't justify a course as expensive as the BCL for what is really a fast track LLB.
There is of course the option of doing a GDL part time, self-funded, and then go onto do a real LLM. This is actually more what I am leaning towards at the minute, and it seems quite a lot of Barristers do this. I am well aware that in terms of LLM's, Oxford is by far way ahead with the BCL, then Cambridge, with Durham and LSE quite far behind that. No other LLM's seem to merit any real advantage in terms of qualifying as a Barrister, and that also discouraged me from potentially shelling out for Sheffield or Bristol. There is obvs the major issue that Oxbridge, Durham and LSE are very very difficult to get into.
Just some notes on my current background / experience - I got 2 A stars and an A (plus A in EPQ) at A-Level from my local comprehensive, and an Oxbridge (failed obvs lol) interview to match. I have done a mini pupillage, volunteer at a legal advice centre, and have worked part time throughout uni. I also have really good work experience within politics (think tanks, MPs, etc.).
Given all that, I am basically asking, do I risk self-funding a GDL on the basis of potentially doing an Oxbridge / Durham / LSE LLM, or do I do the 'MA' GDL at a potentially poor quality institution, or do I bite the bullet and shell out for the two year MA and just hope that gives me enough cred to gain scholarship.
Any help/advice is really appreciated! If money wasn't an issue I think the answer is clear (GDL then real LLM), but thats just not how life works. The reason why I am so insistent on doing a masters is because if I fail at scholarship/pupillage I'd love to do a PhD and try again later. It just seems the amount of people who convert from a humanities to becoming a Barrister is quite small, and those not from Oxbridge even smaller still, and so advice is fairly sparse.
This article lays out some of the advs / costs of both routes but I am still really quite unsure. Thanks for reading all this, it is really driving me crazy
https://www.bbk.ac.uk/school/law/which-course-is-right-for-me
I am currently a final year Sociology and Politics student at Uni of Manchester, expected to graduate with a high first (80%). I want to try and go into Law (Barrister), but know it is extremely difficult and expensive. I am well aware before embarking on a Bar course (of which I would only do if I received a scholarship from an Inn), I need to have completed a Qualifying Law Degree. This is basically the GDL, a senior status LLB or the few 2-year LLMs that exist.
The GDL does not qualify for postgraduate funding, which is an issue, and I am worried about the quality of teaching I'd receive. I'd have to do it part time or remote as I am going to need to work full time to fund it. University of Law seems okay, but at the minute I am leaning towards the Birkbeck or Cardiff GDLs (as real Universities). The main issue here is money.
On the other hand, Uni of Law offers an 'MA' GDL, which seems ideal, but then means I could not get post-grad funding if I wanted to do a real LLM after my GDL, which is a possibility I would like to have open. And again, I have my reservations about a for-profit university with low entry requirements.
The final option is a 2-year MA/ LLM (they use different titles annoyingly), which is basically the GDL, a few optional modules and a dissertation, offered by Sheffield, Bristol and Birkbeck. This seams ideal, as it allows me to do a QLD, qualify for posgrad funding, and do a real LLM / masters to allow me the option of further study if I fail to get a scholarship for the Bar Course (or Pupillage after!). Unfortunately, the issue here again is money, as these courses are ridiculously expensive (Bristol for example is 27k, plus 2 years living costs). I can't justify a course as expensive as the BCL for what is really a fast track LLB.
There is of course the option of doing a GDL part time, self-funded, and then go onto do a real LLM. This is actually more what I am leaning towards at the minute, and it seems quite a lot of Barristers do this. I am well aware that in terms of LLM's, Oxford is by far way ahead with the BCL, then Cambridge, with Durham and LSE quite far behind that. No other LLM's seem to merit any real advantage in terms of qualifying as a Barrister, and that also discouraged me from potentially shelling out for Sheffield or Bristol. There is obvs the major issue that Oxbridge, Durham and LSE are very very difficult to get into.
Just some notes on my current background / experience - I got 2 A stars and an A (plus A in EPQ) at A-Level from my local comprehensive, and an Oxbridge (failed obvs lol) interview to match. I have done a mini pupillage, volunteer at a legal advice centre, and have worked part time throughout uni. I also have really good work experience within politics (think tanks, MPs, etc.).
Given all that, I am basically asking, do I risk self-funding a GDL on the basis of potentially doing an Oxbridge / Durham / LSE LLM, or do I do the 'MA' GDL at a potentially poor quality institution, or do I bite the bullet and shell out for the two year MA and just hope that gives me enough cred to gain scholarship.
Any help/advice is really appreciated! If money wasn't an issue I think the answer is clear (GDL then real LLM), but thats just not how life works. The reason why I am so insistent on doing a masters is because if I fail at scholarship/pupillage I'd love to do a PhD and try again later. It just seems the amount of people who convert from a humanities to becoming a Barrister is quite small, and those not from Oxbridge even smaller still, and so advice is fairly sparse.
This article lays out some of the advs / costs of both routes but I am still really quite unsure. Thanks for reading all this, it is really driving me crazy
https://www.bbk.ac.uk/school/law/which-course-is-right-for-me
Hi @lawless-valve,
The issue you are experiencing right now is exactly the decision I had to make just over a year ago when deciding to convert from my English Lit degree at the University of Exeter to law in order to start to qualify as a Barrister. I understand that the University of Law is not a traditional university compared to many others that you have mentioned in your post. However, it is one of the biggest trainers and qualifiers of lawyers in the UK. I decided to do my MA Law (conversion) with ULaw to access funding through SFE and then have managed to secure a BPC scholarship from both an Inn of Court and ULaw to fund my BPC. Having been on several mini pupillages and taking part in networking events, moots etc. I have spoken to a lot of barristers and the majority that did not do a LLB did a GDL at either BPP or ULaw rather than a different university before doing their BPC and then ofc securing Pupillage.
I think the main question you have to ask yourself is do you really want to be a barrister or do you want to go into academia? If you want to be a barrister then I would recommend doing a GDL of some description and then working to get a BPC scholarship. Btw you can get a GDL scholarship from an Inn of Court which I did not know so that is also an option to look into as that would allow you to convert on the scholarship and then do an LLM BPC if you wanted to do an LLM rather than a MA. If you want to go into academia or you are on the fence then perhaps taking an additional year to do an LLM at a more traditional university using SFE support may be a better option for you 🙂
At the end of the day, the decision is up to what you want to do and the timeline you want to do it in.
I hope this helps a bit and good luck!
Sophie
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