Medicine
Hello,
if someone decides to become a gp,
1) what is the pay like for the foundation training and when specialising.
2) do they have to work in the hospital as a gp or can they choose to only work in a clinic.
3) Do they have to be on call as well or can they choose not to do on call.
4) I'm also wondering what the work hrs are like. Is there a possibility that someone can work 9 to 5 and get weekends off.
5) And what are the holidays like e.g is it usually 1 week or 1 month
Thank you very much, it would be much appreciated if you can answer these questions
THANK YOU AGAIN
if someone decides to become a gp,
1) what is the pay like for the foundation training and when specialising.
2) do they have to work in the hospital as a gp or can they choose to only work in a clinic.
3) Do they have to be on call as well or can they choose not to do on call.
4) I'm also wondering what the work hrs are like. Is there a possibility that someone can work 9 to 5 and get weekends off.
5) And what are the holidays like e.g is it usually 1 week or 1 month
Thank you very much, it would be much appreciated if you can answer these questions
THANK YOU AGAIN
Original post by Animal lover :))
Hello,
if someone decides to become a gp,
1) what is the pay like for the foundation training and when specialising.
2) do they have to work in the hospital as a gp or can they choose to only work in a clinic.
3) Do they have to be on call as well or can they choose not to do on call.
4) I'm also wondering what the work hrs are like. Is there a possibility that someone can work 9 to 5 and get weekends off.
5) And what are the holidays like e.g is it usually 1 week or 1 month
Thank you very much, it would be much appreciated if you can answer these questions
THANK YOU AGAIN
if someone decides to become a gp,
1) what is the pay like for the foundation training and when specialising.
2) do they have to work in the hospital as a gp or can they choose to only work in a clinic.
3) Do they have to be on call as well or can they choose not to do on call.
4) I'm also wondering what the work hrs are like. Is there a possibility that someone can work 9 to 5 and get weekends off.
5) And what are the holidays like e.g is it usually 1 week or 1 month
Thank you very much, it would be much appreciated if you can answer these questions
THANK YOU AGAIN
From what I've understood seeing others remarking on how it works over the years:
1) There are fixed national payscales for these when in training (foundation and GPST) - it depends if you're in England/Wales or Scotland/NI I believe. You can see them here: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf . Once you get CCT as a GP it's a bit less clear cut as if you become a salaried partner in the GP surgery I think it's a bit more complex how it gets worked out. Also if you just work as a locum GP then it'll be whatever the locum rates are presumably?
2) My understanding is GPSTs have to spend at least 12 months (and potentially up to 18 months working in hospital based rotations. These do not need to be consecutive rotations (although might be). I think they can be in various specialties that you may rotate through in a hospital e.g. A&E vs ward based specialties? After you complete the GPST though I don't think there's any hospital based work unless you choose to develop a special interest in something involving a hospital based clinic?
3) I believe if your hospital rotation has a call rota then you work this as a GPST. Not sure how that works once you are a CCT GP and working in a GP surgery - I think some have late sessions or weekend hours that run so they might have a rota for that, but I think it's less out of hours in the sense of 2am call outs?
4) I think in theory it's something like this when you qualify although I think it's more like 8-6/7 with minimal (by hospital specialty standards) weekend working? As I have heard it's rare to truly work 9-5 due to high demand in surgeries for extended hours (most other people seeking a GP appointment probably also work 9-5!) and admin requirements of the job.
5) The UK has statutory annual leave allotments so it will be the legally required leave you are entitled to, unless purely locumming (in which case you don't get holiday but you can just choose not to take shifts for a while if you want). More here: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights . You may accrue additional days through seniority as a trainee or through agreement with the practice as CCT GP, depending on exactly how you are working (whether a salaried partner in a GP surgery or not might change that?).
This all assumes working in the NHS after training though. If you work as a private GP after completing GPST or go and do something different e.g. maritime medicine or something, then it'd be whatever the employer offers!
@GANFYD can probably a lot more specific detail to this though!
(edited 4 months ago)
Original post by artful_lounger
From what I've understood seeing others remarking on how it works over the years:
1) There are fixed national payscales for these when in training (foundation and GPST) - it depends if you're in England/Wales or Scotland/NI I believe. You can see them here: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf . Once you get CCT as a GP it's a bit less clear cut as if you become a salaried partner in the GP surgery I think it's a bit more complex how it gets worked out. Also if you just work as a locum GP then it'll be whatever the locum rates are presumably?
2) My understanding is GPSTs have to spend at least 12 months (and potentially up to 18 months working in hospital based rotations. These do not need to be consecutive rotations (although might be). I think they can be in various specialties that you may rotate through in a hospital e.g. A&E vs ward based specialties? After you complete the GPST though I don't think there's any hospital based work unless you choose to develop a special interest in something involving a hospital based clinic?
3) I believe if your hospital rotation has a call rota then you work this as a GPST. Not sure how that works once you are a CCT GP and working in a GP surgery - I think some have late sessions or weekend hours that run so they might have a rota for that, but I think it's less out of hours in the sense of 2am call outs?
4) I think in theory it's something like this when you qualify although I think it's more like 8-6/7 with minimal (by hospital specialty standards) weekend working? As I have heard it's rare to truly work 9-5 due to high demand in surgeries for extended hours (most other people seeking a GP appointment probably also work 9-5!) and admin requirements of the job.
5) The UK has statutory annual leave allotments so it will be the legally required leave you are entitled to, unless purely locumming (in which case you don't get holiday but you can just choose not to take shifts for a while if you want). More here: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights . You may accrue additional days through seniority as a trainee or through agreement with the practice as CCT GP, depending on exactly how you are working (whether a salaried partner in a GP surgery or not might change that?).
This all assumes working in the NHS after training though. If you work as a private GP after completing GPST or go and do something different e.g. maritime medicine or something, then it'd be whatever the employer offers!
@GANFYD can probably a lot more specific detail to this though!
1) There are fixed national payscales for these when in training (foundation and GPST) - it depends if you're in England/Wales or Scotland/NI I believe. You can see them here: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf . Once you get CCT as a GP it's a bit less clear cut as if you become a salaried partner in the GP surgery I think it's a bit more complex how it gets worked out. Also if you just work as a locum GP then it'll be whatever the locum rates are presumably?
2) My understanding is GPSTs have to spend at least 12 months (and potentially up to 18 months working in hospital based rotations. These do not need to be consecutive rotations (although might be). I think they can be in various specialties that you may rotate through in a hospital e.g. A&E vs ward based specialties? After you complete the GPST though I don't think there's any hospital based work unless you choose to develop a special interest in something involving a hospital based clinic?
3) I believe if your hospital rotation has a call rota then you work this as a GPST. Not sure how that works once you are a CCT GP and working in a GP surgery - I think some have late sessions or weekend hours that run so they might have a rota for that, but I think it's less out of hours in the sense of 2am call outs?
4) I think in theory it's something like this when you qualify although I think it's more like 8-6/7 with minimal (by hospital specialty standards) weekend working? As I have heard it's rare to truly work 9-5 due to high demand in surgeries for extended hours (most other people seeking a GP appointment probably also work 9-5!) and admin requirements of the job.
5) The UK has statutory annual leave allotments so it will be the legally required leave you are entitled to, unless purely locumming (in which case you don't get holiday but you can just choose not to take shifts for a while if you want). More here: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights . You may accrue additional days through seniority as a trainee or through agreement with the practice as CCT GP, depending on exactly how you are working (whether a salaried partner in a GP surgery or not might change that?).
This all assumes working in the NHS after training though. If you work as a private GP after completing GPST or go and do something different e.g. maritime medicine or something, then it'd be whatever the employer offers!
@GANFYD can probably a lot more specific detail to this though!
OK thank you very much
Original post by artful_lounger
From what I've understood seeing others remarking on how it works over the years:
1) There are fixed national payscales for these when in training (foundation and GPST) - it depends if you're in England/Wales or Scotland/NI I believe. You can see them here: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf . Once you get CCT as a GP it's a bit less clear cut as if you become a salaried partner in the GP surgery I think it's a bit more complex how it gets worked out. Also if you just work as a locum GP then it'll be whatever the locum rates are presumably?
2) My understanding is GPSTs have to spend at least 12 months (and potentially up to 18 months working in hospital based rotations. These do not need to be consecutive rotations (although might be). I think they can be in various specialties that you may rotate through in a hospital e.g. A&E vs ward based specialties? After you complete the GPST though I don't think there's any hospital based work unless you choose to develop a special interest in something involving a hospital based clinic?
3) I believe if your hospital rotation has a call rota then you work this as a GPST. Not sure how that works once you are a CCT GP and working in a GP surgery - I think some have late sessions or weekend hours that run so they might have a rota for that, but I think it's less out of hours in the sense of 2am call outs?
4) I think in theory it's something like this when you qualify although I think it's more like 8-6/7 with minimal (by hospital specialty standards) weekend working? As I have heard it's rare to truly work 9-5 due to high demand in surgeries for extended hours (most other people seeking a GP appointment probably also work 9-5!) and admin requirements of the job.
5) The UK has statutory annual leave allotments so it will be the legally required leave you are entitled to, unless purely locumming (in which case you don't get holiday but you can just choose not to take shifts for a while if you want). More here: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights . You may accrue additional days through seniority as a trainee or through agreement with the practice as CCT GP, depending on exactly how you are working (whether a salaried partner in a GP surgery or not might change that?).
This all assumes working in the NHS after training though. If you work as a private GP after completing GPST or go and do something different e.g. maritime medicine or something, then it'd be whatever the employer offers!
@GANFYD can probably a lot more specific detail to this though!
1) There are fixed national payscales for these when in training (foundation and GPST) - it depends if you're in England/Wales or Scotland/NI I believe. You can see them here: https://www.bma.org.uk/media/7509/pay-and-conditions-circular-md-4-2023-final_0.pdf . Once you get CCT as a GP it's a bit less clear cut as if you become a salaried partner in the GP surgery I think it's a bit more complex how it gets worked out. Also if you just work as a locum GP then it'll be whatever the locum rates are presumably?
2) My understanding is GPSTs have to spend at least 12 months (and potentially up to 18 months working in hospital based rotations. These do not need to be consecutive rotations (although might be). I think they can be in various specialties that you may rotate through in a hospital e.g. A&E vs ward based specialties? After you complete the GPST though I don't think there's any hospital based work unless you choose to develop a special interest in something involving a hospital based clinic?
3) I believe if your hospital rotation has a call rota then you work this as a GPST. Not sure how that works once you are a CCT GP and working in a GP surgery - I think some have late sessions or weekend hours that run so they might have a rota for that, but I think it's less out of hours in the sense of 2am call outs?
4) I think in theory it's something like this when you qualify although I think it's more like 8-6/7 with minimal (by hospital specialty standards) weekend working? As I have heard it's rare to truly work 9-5 due to high demand in surgeries for extended hours (most other people seeking a GP appointment probably also work 9-5!) and admin requirements of the job.
5) The UK has statutory annual leave allotments so it will be the legally required leave you are entitled to, unless purely locumming (in which case you don't get holiday but you can just choose not to take shifts for a while if you want). More here: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights . You may accrue additional days through seniority as a trainee or through agreement with the practice as CCT GP, depending on exactly how you are working (whether a salaried partner in a GP surgery or not might change that?).
This all assumes working in the NHS after training though. If you work as a private GP after completing GPST or go and do something different e.g. maritime medicine or something, then it'd be whatever the employer offers!
@GANFYD can probably a lot more specific detail to this though!
Pretty much spot on!
@Animal lover [s]smile[/s] )
The BMA set a salaried GP advisory pay scale
https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/gp-pay/salaried-gp-pay-ranges
but some practices pay more and a few less.
Partners do not get a salary, they get a share of the profits from the business and that can be very variable depending on how big, efficient, successful etc your business is. The average was about £140K a couple of years ago, though has gone down since then, generally. There is massive variation around this average.
GP standard hours are now 8am to 8pm M-F and 9am to 5pm Sat but not every GP offers all of those! Some of us do long days, some split it with a later start or earlier finish, but it is possible you will be working at either extremes of those hours and some Saturdays.
There is also the option to work out of hours (6.30pm to 8am and all weekend) but it is not compulsory.
You may work as a Duty Dr, which is the GP equivalent of being on call, but standard hours are only those detailed above and as I say, OOH is optional.
I am now pretty senior and work 9-8pm one day, 9-7pm another and 1-7 a third, though I do lots of admin outside of these times, as I am a Partner. This is what you will hear derided as "part-time" in the press, but my nominal 5 sessions a week involves at least 30 hours a week plus CPD. Salaried GPs usually have a 4 hr 10min session and full time would be 9 of those. How they are arranged throughout the week is down to your employer (my salaried Drs all work 9-17.50).
GMS contract holders must employ salaried Drs on terms no less favourable than the BMA contract , which gives 6 weeks leave a year. Partners take as much (or as little) as they want, can cover and can afford. I have years where I have had 8 weeks holiday and some where I have not managed many full weeks at all. Our partnership agreement also entitles us to a sabbatical every 3 (or 5 - I can't remember) years, where I can take 3 months off. Again, this is down to what the partners want to put in their agreement.
Other than that, everything is pretty much as you say - I have a job ready whenever you want one
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