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Reply 160
Darkened Angel
Ah fair enough. Seem a bit of a cop-out though. Also it would make God cruel to allow malformed genetics if they lead to suffering.


when posed as such, this produces one of the most interesting questions for theists.
I suppose a christian theist would say that Humans abused the free choice they had in the Adam and Eve story and this lead to decline from a perfect state to one in which disease and such existed.
Oladz
when posed as such, this produces one of the most interesting questions for theists.
I suppose a christian theist would say that Humans abused the free choice they had in the Adam and Eve story and this lead to decline from a perfect state to one in which disease and such existed.

I don't think it is fair to blame the entire human race for the actions of two individuals though. It also seems like God is overreacting.

One response I receive is that it is impossible for God to do 'evil' as it goes against his nature but he is doing evil here so it is evidently not against his nature. It is we humans who define evil as individuals afterall. I never understood the concept of objective morality simply due to the fact that we all disagree on what constitutes as moral and not, that seems to destroy the idea of objective morals altogether IMO...
Reply 162
Darkened Angel
I don't think it is fair to blame the entire human race for the actions of two individuals though. It also seems like God is overreacting.

One response I receive is that it is impossible for God to do 'evil' as it goes against his nature but he is doing evil here so it is evidently not against his nature. It is we humans who define evil as individuals afterall. I never understood the concept of objective morality simply due to the fact that well disagree on what constitutes as moral and not, that seems to destroy the idea of objective morals altogether IMO...


I am just speculating here and so i may not necessarily agree with the ideas/examples i give but use them to further this discussion :smile:

From what I know of the book of Genisis, God gave quite specific intructions to Adam & Eve not to eat from the tree or bad things would happen (which I suppose must beg the question why place the tree there) - this may indicate that there was a set of consequences that would occur if this instruction was not followed. The consequences may have been a "law" (if you will) and so when the "law" was broken, God was only acting justly when he banished them from Eden.

But the issue of whether God is "evil" is a recurring one, for example, he sent an angel to kill all the 1st born of Egypt in exodus (which I suppose could also again be construed as a punishment in reaction to Pharaoh refusing to let the Isralites go, whether we see this today as moral or not).

Some people may also say that "It is not possible to empaphise with God as humans are not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and so our judgement of his actions cannot be valid"

But I do understand your point that a so called benevolent God allows so much suffering in this world - theists would probably say it all comes down to freedom of choice.
Oladz
I am just speculating here and so i may not necessarily agree with the ideas/examples i give but use them to further this discussion :smile:

From what I know of the book of Genisis, God gave quite specific intructions to Adam & Eve not to eat from the tree or bad things would happen (which I suppose must beg the question why place the tree there) - this may indicate that there was a set of consequences that would occur if this instruction was not followed. The consequences may have been a "law" (if you will) and so when the "law" was broken, God was only acting justly when he banished them from Eden.

But the issue of whether God is "evil" is a recurring one, for example, he sent an angel to kill all the 1st born of Egypt in exodus (which I suppose could also again be construed as a punishment in reaction to Pharaoh refusing to let the Isralites go, whether we see this today as moral or not).

Some people may also say that "It is not possible to empaphise with God as humans are not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and so our judgement of his actions cannot be valid"

But I do understand your point that a so called benevolent God allows so much suffering in this world - theists would probably say it all comes down to freedom of choice.

God may have been acting justly when banish Adam and Eve, that I don't have problems with, it's just that the rest of us also have to suffer and that doesn't make much logical sense since we didn't do anything.

Also freedom of choice doesn't account for natural evils.

I never liked the 'we cannot understand God with out feeble minds' excuse, to me it always feels like it is God himself who does not seem to be understanding us and how we think :s-smilie:

Questions like these led me to reject theism. The world makes so much more sense to me without a God being there.
If we could understand the will of God we'd be Gods ourselves.
cowsgoquack
If we could understand the will of God we'd be Gods ourselves.

If we created a universe would that make us Gods?
Darkened Angel
If we created a universe would that make us Gods?


Yup
cowsgoquack
Yup

In that case maybe we could understand the will of God through theoretical scenarios where we created a universe and life?
yes, when we create a universe
cowsgoquack
yes, when we create a universe

You didn't read the post properly. I was talking about theoretical scenarios. It would pose some interesting answers.
Darkened Angel
You didn't read the post properly. I was talking about theoretical scenarios. It would pose some interesting answers.

Hopefully that's the kind of thing ID "scientists" get up to. It might actually be interesting and useful.

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