My name is not "Hey Baby"
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Original post by ArtGoblin
Not true - 'hey baby' is creepy whoever it's coming from. I don't see why it is necessary to approach women in the street to comment on their appearance - I don't ask for it and I don't appreciate it. It's not even like it's a successful technique of starting a relationship or even getting sex because it doesn't even go beyond a short conversation at the best of times. There is absolutely no reason for men to tell women what they're thinking, even if they do look at them that way.
Well then, what is? If a guy tries to talk to you when you're walking down the street, the only reason will be because he thinks you look good - he knows nothing else about you. So even if he didn't comment on your appearance, he does so implicitly by bothering at all..
At the end of it, you are almost certainly going to be approached for your appearance. What are you expecting?
The point of Slutwalk, covered several things. Not just one. The first point was the insult of calling a woman a slut in the first place. Slut is a derogatory word, 99% of the time directed at a woman. Namely a woman who has a lot of sex. Why is she called a slut? What is 'wrong' with a woman admitting she likes sex? Men aren't called sluts. No, they are actively encouraged and applauded for liking / having sex a lot. So while I don't necessarily agree with the naming of the protest 'Slutwalk' or the use of the word at all, I understand that it was used in a tongue in cheek way. Like a mass of women saying "Yes I enjoy sex, and what of it?" all at once.
Secondly, yes, the way women dress. Why is the negativity in this situation on the women? Why is a woman told to 'cover up'? We are presumably all talking about the west. We are not all in the Middle East where it is law for women to cover up their natural state. Why does society, some men and some women, expect a woman to cover something up that she has absolutely no choice in being born with? She cannot 'control' boobs to be smaller. She cannot 'control' her legs to be shorter. So if a woman is born with big boobs, long legs and all manner of generally attractive things do you seriously expect her to walk around covering everything up? She didn't asked to be blessed with the body she was given Why is unreasonable to ask men who are indeed, capable of controlling their behaviour to not leer at her in public? Not to shout things at her involving her body parts? Why is that a ridiculous favour to ask?
Yes we know men find certain things sexually attractive and I would be all for a man approaching me with something along the lines of "I must say, you look wonderful today" / "Excuse me, can I just tell you how pretty I think you are?" But all of you must see the difference between that and "Oi oi sexy, show us some more".
If It is a hot day outside, a man can feel free to take his shirt off and walk around a busy street all he wants. Ok, some people don't like it but it is not against the law is it? If a woman wanted to, legally, she is not allowed to. So her only options are to either wear a strappy top, (oh no, she can't, she has to cover up if she wants to avoid letches!) or to go indoors. Come on people how impractical?!
I have asked many other guys this before - Why it is ok for a man to be out topless but not a woman? The usual response is "Breasts are a sexual area and a man’s chest is not." Well I hate to break this to some of you but breasts are there to provide nutrition for children, anything else is secondary.
The next point of Slutwalk, leading on from that one, is that in the majority of rape cases in court (and I say 'majority' but I mean 'all' of the ones I personally am aware of) bring up what a woman was wearing on the night of the alleged attack. Just as her sexual history is. THIS IS NOT OK If a woman who enjoys a lot of (consensual) sex and who has had a lot of partners has been sunbathing on a beach all day, gets assaulted walking back to her beach hut in her bikini and a sarong or something, that will all be brought into question. Why? Does her past and attire mean she wanted to be attacked? As that is what some would argue. And indeed some of you are! "Why is she wearing that outfit if she doesn't want attention?" "She was asking for it, with a skirt like that" I have never heard anything so preposterous in my life. And it's truly shocking to find some people DO think that!
What about the woman who is really short, doesn't like it and wants to wear some skyscraper heels, just to be the same height as everyone else? The woman who has gone from a size 20 to a size 8 and had years of ridicule for being overweight but is now proud of her figure and wants to show off her hard work? I'd even argue many many women - dress for other women! Some of my female friends even admit it's a competition thing. Many men do it with a display of power and strength. Who can hit the punch bag the hardest in the gym. Who can drink the most pints. Most women like fashion, so their 'peacock display' is clothes. THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS WORN FOR THE ATTRACTION OF MEN.
Yes, some women DO wear certain clothes to attract men. But why should all women be treated a certain way just because of clothes? Can't you work out what she might find complimentary from her actions? For example, the woman flirting with you might enjoy the attention more than the woman walking past a building site on her way to work, eyes on the floor. Use your intelligence.
I actually think it's more insulting to men, to say women should cover up as it's like saying men can't control themselves.
Secondly, yes, the way women dress. Why is the negativity in this situation on the women? Why is a woman told to 'cover up'? We are presumably all talking about the west. We are not all in the Middle East where it is law for women to cover up their natural state. Why does society, some men and some women, expect a woman to cover something up that she has absolutely no choice in being born with? She cannot 'control' boobs to be smaller. She cannot 'control' her legs to be shorter. So if a woman is born with big boobs, long legs and all manner of generally attractive things do you seriously expect her to walk around covering everything up? She didn't asked to be blessed with the body she was given Why is unreasonable to ask men who are indeed, capable of controlling their behaviour to not leer at her in public? Not to shout things at her involving her body parts? Why is that a ridiculous favour to ask?
Yes we know men find certain things sexually attractive and I would be all for a man approaching me with something along the lines of "I must say, you look wonderful today" / "Excuse me, can I just tell you how pretty I think you are?" But all of you must see the difference between that and "Oi oi sexy, show us some more".
If It is a hot day outside, a man can feel free to take his shirt off and walk around a busy street all he wants. Ok, some people don't like it but it is not against the law is it? If a woman wanted to, legally, she is not allowed to. So her only options are to either wear a strappy top, (oh no, she can't, she has to cover up if she wants to avoid letches!) or to go indoors. Come on people how impractical?!
I have asked many other guys this before - Why it is ok for a man to be out topless but not a woman? The usual response is "Breasts are a sexual area and a man’s chest is not." Well I hate to break this to some of you but breasts are there to provide nutrition for children, anything else is secondary.
The next point of Slutwalk, leading on from that one, is that in the majority of rape cases in court (and I say 'majority' but I mean 'all' of the ones I personally am aware of) bring up what a woman was wearing on the night of the alleged attack. Just as her sexual history is. THIS IS NOT OK If a woman who enjoys a lot of (consensual) sex and who has had a lot of partners has been sunbathing on a beach all day, gets assaulted walking back to her beach hut in her bikini and a sarong or something, that will all be brought into question. Why? Does her past and attire mean she wanted to be attacked? As that is what some would argue. And indeed some of you are! "Why is she wearing that outfit if she doesn't want attention?" "She was asking for it, with a skirt like that" I have never heard anything so preposterous in my life. And it's truly shocking to find some people DO think that!
What about the woman who is really short, doesn't like it and wants to wear some skyscraper heels, just to be the same height as everyone else? The woman who has gone from a size 20 to a size 8 and had years of ridicule for being overweight but is now proud of her figure and wants to show off her hard work? I'd even argue many many women - dress for other women! Some of my female friends even admit it's a competition thing. Many men do it with a display of power and strength. Who can hit the punch bag the hardest in the gym. Who can drink the most pints. Most women like fashion, so their 'peacock display' is clothes. THEY ARE NOT ALWAYS WORN FOR THE ATTRACTION OF MEN.
Yes, some women DO wear certain clothes to attract men. But why should all women be treated a certain way just because of clothes? Can't you work out what she might find complimentary from her actions? For example, the woman flirting with you might enjoy the attention more than the woman walking past a building site on her way to work, eyes on the floor. Use your intelligence.
I actually think it's more insulting to men, to say women should cover up as it's like saying men can't control themselves.
Original post by S-man10
You would be so wrong on this. May not work for you but surprisingly it works well for others.
Really? I don't know anyone who started a relationship that way, and it's not surprising considering that most of the comments aimed at women in the street are put across in an abusive manner.
Original post by FireGarden
Well then, what is? If a guy tries to talk to you when you're walking down the street, the only reason will be because he thinks you look good - he knows nothing else about you. So even if he didn't comment on your appearance, he does so implicitly by bothering at all..
At the end of it, you are almost certainly going to be approached for your appearance. What are you expecting?
At the end of it, you are almost certainly going to be approached for your appearance. What are you expecting?
You could, you know, actually get to know someone first. There are plenty of opportunities to meet people in life without having to approach strangers on the street. And mostly these comments aren't made with the intention of getting to know someone because they're shouted across the street. They seem to be for the sole purpose of intimidating women.
Original post by Deema
If a guy walks into a room wearing a suit, I'll stare. That's hot. If he has a nice body and he happens to be topless, I will objectify the hell out of him. It's human nature and I expect it to happen to me when I dress "sexily" like that too. I don't like that kind of attention though, so I no longer dress that way. End of. The most empowering thing for both men and women is that the power is in YOUR hands. Stop being a little pussy all annoyed because a guy is very naturally turned on by your PROVOCATIVE dress.
BTW, provocative: Adjective:
Causing provocation, esp. deliberately: "a provocative article".
Arousing sexual desire or interest, esp. deliberately
To dress provocatively, therefore, is to provoke a reaction. Obviously there are lines, but a verbal comment or two? Get over.
stfu and cover up if you don't like it
BTW, provocative: Adjective:
Causing provocation, esp. deliberately: "a provocative article".
Arousing sexual desire or interest, esp. deliberately
To dress provocatively, therefore, is to provoke a reaction. Obviously there are lines, but a verbal comment or two? Get over.
stfu and cover up if you don't like it
Only woman in this thread to talk any sense. Hear hear.
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by madders94
I think feminists and people who think like the OP should walk around wearing a sign that says "Don't compliment me you dirty pervert future rapist", so that men know to avoid complimenting those women and normal women can carry on with their normal lives and men can compliment us if they want to.
Are you aware there's a huge difference between a compliment and harassment?? o.O
For instance, a few weeks ago (before the weather got ****) I walked past some people unloading something from a van. One of them said to me "Good morning miss, you look lovely today." That is nice, and is a compliment, and made me smile. It's respectful. And this guy was old enough to be my dad and getting a beer belly - not attractive to me - but still it's a nice compliment. It doesn't have to be an Adonis complimenting me to make me smile.
Another time I was walking past a shop and a man started to call out "Hey, hey angel!" along with kissing noises. That is harassment, not a compliment, because it's not respectful.
The amount of people confusing compliments with harassment/abuse on this thread is truly staggering...
As for the people saying "you shouldn't advertise yourself" or "don't dress provocatively" - at what point does jeans and a jumper become "advertising yourself" or "provocative"?? Would you have all women walk around in head to toe burkhas or never leave the house?
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by HJFSS
Because women should be able to dress however they want without fear of being harassed for it?
yes, they should, but they can't. it's just common sense, there are some nasty nasty people out there and you're just drawing more attention to yourself if you dress in a particular way.
Original post by ArtGoblin
Really? I don't know anyone who started a relationship that way, and it's not surprising considering that most of the comments aimed at women in the street are put across in an abusive manner.
Not the heckling kind approach on the street though (as I understand to what you are saying)
It works but there is a way to lets just say a man needs to come across eloquently. Although tbf, the heckling type approach might not work and we have never seen it work, truth be told it probably has worked someplace somewhere for someone
Original post by Bellissima
yes, they should, but they can't. it's just common sense, there are some nasty nasty people out there and you're just drawing more attention to yourself if you dress in a particular way.
See this is true, and even I've been rounded on before for suggesting women take precautions on a night out.
However, as I said above, jeans and a jumper - normal everyday wear! And yet it still happens. Someone else made the very good point that you can't help it if you have a pretty face / big boobs / long legs.
My normal day wear is my riding boots (pumps in the summer), jeans, a tshirt and a hoodie / jumper. And yet the comments still come. Please tell me how I am dressing "in a particular way"?
Original post by Aj12
They should but unfortunately that's not the world we live in. We live in one where there are men out there who will harass women, in some cases depending on how they are dressed.
I'm not saying it's the women's fault, but dressing in a certain way sends out a signal. You know the reaction you will get, so why dress that way if you don't like that reaction?
I really don't think men understand this, because they very rarely, if ever, experience it. I HATE being wolf-whistled at/cat-called. I find it really embarassing. And you don't have to be wearing anything 'provocative' to generate it - it's happened to me just walking down the street in jeans and a jumper.
It is not meant as a compliment - if it was, the tone used would be completely different. 'Oi, oi, alright darlin'! <whistle> <cue laughter from other friends massively impressed at what a big man he is>' This is not done to make a woman feel good about herself; if you wanted us to feel good about ourselves, then you would be listening to us telling you that we don't like this - not telling us that we should be grateful for the compliment!
It is not meant as a compliment - if it was, the tone used would be completely different. 'Oi, oi, alright darlin'! <whistle> <cue laughter from other friends massively impressed at what a big man he is>' This is not done to make a woman feel good about herself; if you wanted us to feel good about ourselves, then you would be listening to us telling you that we don't like this - not telling us that we should be grateful for the compliment!
Original post by james1211
If you dress provacatively, you are doing so to attract guys attention. You can't pick and choose which guys will give you the attention because life doesn't work that way, so live it it i say.
Why else would you be dressing provacatively? For your own health?
Why else would you be dressing provacatively? For your own health?
But what is provocatively?
Are you suggesting people with larger boobs should have to cover up?
Why should girls like my gf not be able to wear things like t shirts in fear of what some sickos will do?
Original post by Lil Piranha
See this is true, and even I've been rounded on before for suggesting women take precautions on a night out.
However, as I said above, jeans and a jumper - normal everyday wear! And yet it still happens. Someone else made the very good point that you can't help it if you have a pretty face / big boobs / long legs.
My normal day wear is my riding boots (pumps in the summer), jeans, a tshirt and a hoodie / jumper. And yet the comments still come. Please tell me how I am dressing "in a particular way"?
However, as I said above, jeans and a jumper - normal everyday wear! And yet it still happens. Someone else made the very good point that you can't help it if you have a pretty face / big boobs / long legs.
My normal day wear is my riding boots (pumps in the summer), jeans, a tshirt and a hoodie / jumper. And yet the comments still come. Please tell me how I am dressing "in a particular way"?
you aren't
i'm saying don't go out dressed like this:
without expecting to get comments or even inappropriate touching in extreme cases, from men. if you don't, then great, i'm not saying it is 100% guaranteed to happen, i'm saying it's more likely. i'm not saying it doesn't happen if you DON'T dress like this, just that it is less likely. i'm not saying it's acceptable either but the fact is you can't stop them from saying/doing it before they do it, you can't get rid of the men who do this kind of thing.
i don't really see what you point is, whoever i quoted was talking about dressing however they like or whatever... not dressing normally. there are always men who will comment regardless, depends on how hot you are, where you live (for example in turkey they all seem to be sexually repressed), luck of the draw of whether you bump into these people.
i doubt it happens as often as you make it sound...
(edited 12 years ago)
Original post by Lil Piranha
See this is true, and even I've been rounded on before for suggesting women take precautions on a night out.
However, as I said above, jeans and a jumper - normal everyday wear! And yet it still happens. Someone else made the very good point that you can't help it if you have a pretty face / big boobs / long legs.
My normal day wear is my riding boots (pumps in the summer), jeans, a tshirt and a hoodie / jumper. And yet the comments still come. Please tell me how I am dressing "in a particular way"?
However, as I said above, jeans and a jumper - normal everyday wear! And yet it still happens. Someone else made the very good point that you can't help it if you have a pretty face / big boobs / long legs.
My normal day wear is my riding boots (pumps in the summer), jeans, a tshirt and a hoodie / jumper. And yet the comments still come. Please tell me how I am dressing "in a particular way"?
believe it or not. There are 'bad characters' who will make the aforementioned 'comments' regardless of your attire.
I don't see how this is hard to come to terms with..
I think I should be allowed to go to Anfield in my Man United top and not have scousers giving me abuse and in some cases roughly manhandling me just because of the way I dress.
Original post by Bellissima
yes, they should, but they can't. it's just common sense, there are some nasty nasty people out there and you're just drawing more attention to yourself if you dress in a particular way.
Unfortunately views like this will get you neg repped on TSR. Apparently it's victim blaming (even if you say it before an incident). It's similar to saying people (particularly women) shouldn't get plastered on a Saturday night and walk about town alone. You wouldn't walk around with your wallet on the outside either, so why don't you take practical precautions to protect yourself?
ALL women get some sort of attention but the fact is if you dress provocatively you will get even more. You're sending out the signals! The world isn't an ideal place.
(edited 12 years ago)
How about, guys, girls, whatever...if you feel like making a remark and are in doubt about whether or not it's inappropriate/ you KNOW it could be...just don't say it. Just shut your ass up. I feel that would cut out a lot of these petty arguments. It's what my mother always says. If you can't say anything nice then don't say it. And you know and I know that lots of women, (and men), feel uncomfortable with lewd comments. Including me.
Just be quiet. That works with a lot of things in life, actually.
Just be quiet. That works with a lot of things in life, actually.
1) Anyone calling OP sexist doesn't understand that many people regard sexiness as an attitude derived largely from charisma and behaviour, as much as physical appearance. There's also a difference between finding the face appealing and finding the body appealing.
2) If I see one more person blame women for dressing how they want for getting harassed, I will punch something. To compare a human being to property (in the first place, let alone to justify a point) is ridiculous - and also leaving one's door unlocked does not mean one was asking for it. The blame is always on the one breaking the law. If people were discouraged from harassment instead of being told, 'oh it's her fault if she's dressing badly!' or 'oh it's his fault, he's in prison he deserves to be raped!' is pretty damn terrible and frankly ridiculous.
'Oh, honey, you were raped? Better cover yourself up in future, sweetheart, it's all your fault, a man can't control his impulses around you, so it's your fault and not his!' Is a common mindset and is restrictive and insensitive towards the woman and contributes to a negative stereotype of men being brutish and sexually driven (and makes those very few men that are think that it's OK.)
So yes, your attitudes do matter. Everybody is entitled to think as they please, as I am entitled to point out that it contributes to unhealthy stereotypes and mental views.
(By the way a feminist is any man or woman who believes in equal rights for everyone regardless of sex and often gender to boot. Self-defined feminists and radical feminists may often exhibit bad behaviours, but most people are in fact 'feminists'. For the record I do not define myself as feminist, as this word is female-centric and undermines the suffering caused to men by gender-stereotyping and double standards, suffering which should never be ignored and should be treated as seriously as women, even if it is considered to be 'less common' (since men rarely report these things due to being forced by society to ignore their emotions and sadness, in case they are mocked!))
Just my two boondollars.
2) If I see one more person blame women for dressing how they want for getting harassed, I will punch something. To compare a human being to property (in the first place, let alone to justify a point) is ridiculous - and also leaving one's door unlocked does not mean one was asking for it. The blame is always on the one breaking the law. If people were discouraged from harassment instead of being told, 'oh it's her fault if she's dressing badly!' or 'oh it's his fault, he's in prison he deserves to be raped!' is pretty damn terrible and frankly ridiculous.
'Oh, honey, you were raped? Better cover yourself up in future, sweetheart, it's all your fault, a man can't control his impulses around you, so it's your fault and not his!' Is a common mindset and is restrictive and insensitive towards the woman and contributes to a negative stereotype of men being brutish and sexually driven (and makes those very few men that are think that it's OK.)
So yes, your attitudes do matter. Everybody is entitled to think as they please, as I am entitled to point out that it contributes to unhealthy stereotypes and mental views.
(By the way a feminist is any man or woman who believes in equal rights for everyone regardless of sex and often gender to boot. Self-defined feminists and radical feminists may often exhibit bad behaviours, but most people are in fact 'feminists'. For the record I do not define myself as feminist, as this word is female-centric and undermines the suffering caused to men by gender-stereotyping and double standards, suffering which should never be ignored and should be treated as seriously as women, even if it is considered to be 'less common' (since men rarely report these things due to being forced by society to ignore their emotions and sadness, in case they are mocked!))
Just my two boondollars.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
I think I should be allowed to go to Anfield in my Man United top and not have scousers giving me abuse and in some cases roughly manhandling me just because of the way I dress.
I appreciate you are being glib - but yes, you should be able to do that. Just because some people are daft enough to take football that seriously, and you can't at the moment, doesn't mean you shouldn't be pissed off at it.
Original post by buchanan700
How about, guys, girls, whatever...if you feel like making a remark and are in doubt about whether or not it's inappropriate/ you KNOW it could be...just don't say it. Just shut your ass up. I feel that would cut out a lot of these petty arguments. It's what my mother always says. If you can't say anything nice then don't say it. And you know and I know that lots of women, (and men), feel uncomfortable with lewd comments. Including me.
Just be quiet. That works with a lot of things in life, actually.
Just be quiet. That works with a lot of things in life, actually.
Gotcha.
Original post by S-man10
It doesn't and I'm not saying it does, rather when you dress a certain way, expect something to be said.
tbf it is largely those "wassup blud, innit, lookin sexy" folks that make those clal from my observation.
tbf it is largely those "wassup blud, innit, lookin sexy" folks that make those clal from my observation.
many women on here have commented that they have been heckled at even when wearing clothes that wouldn´t be seen as "provocative". the problem lies with men, not women´s inability to wear a knee-length skirt.
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