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Original post by apotoftea
:yep: personal life is going to trump career if/when it comes to that. I don't think I'll be cut out for an academic career anyway :s-smilie:
I suspect that my career might trump. Its difficult to tell though. I really don't want to have to decide between the two things. My partner would always come first, but I don't know whether I'd have kids.
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Tbh, I don't think I have it in me to make a world-class researcher. Well not without hugely jeapordising my health. Part-time teaching somewhere with decent students could be fun for me though, even if it hasn't got much prestige.

But your question was 'might part time work solve some of the inequalities and barriers that women face in academia'. And although you might be happy with a part time job, a lot of women would want to be researchers with equal pay and respect to men, and would face more hurdles than men in reaching that position. Also there's still a lot of stigma attached to 'career women', and a loss of respect connected to not being a mother. So I don't think that generally part time teaching work is a real answer to the inequalities and problems in the field.
Original post by Craghyrax

But your question was 'might part time work solve some of the inequalities and barriers that women face in academia'. And although you might be happy with a part time job, a lot of women would want to be researchers with equal pay and respect to men, and would face more hurdles than men in reaching that position. Also there's still a lot of stigma attached to 'career women', and a loss of respect connected to not being a mother. So I don't think that generally part time teaching work is a real answer to the inequalities and problems in the field.


Ah sorry if I confused you. When I said "I wonder if part-time work would be any better?" or whatever I said, I meant in terms of cattiness/backstabbing-ness. Not so much inequalities and barriers. That, part-time obviously makes worse, rather than helps with :yes:
Reply 3883


It doesn't surprise me and is only going to get worse. Had an email the other day (through a mailing list) about a PhD fees bursary. The catch was fees were paid for 3 years IF you taught x amount of hours per week.

Which also asks the question of should first year PhD students be teaching?
Original post by apotoftea
It doesn't surprise me and is only going to get worse. Had an email the other day (through a mailing list) about a PhD fees bursary. The catch was fees were paid for 3 years IF you taught x amount of hours per week.

Which also asks the question of should first year PhD students be teaching?


Lol here at Ox first year DPhil and second year MPhil students can teach, providing they've spent some time at the uni before (e.g transitioning onto the DPhil from being an MSt here, the MPhil is 2 years etc). This is a bit scary, I've met the kinds of students we have here. They're not very bright, if I was taught by them I'd get pissed off. This is the Classics dept obviously.

Seriously though, I like some of these people but they just don't have enough knowledge to be imparting anything on a professional level. I think in general the dept here is quite willy nilly with a lot of stuff like that though. To be fair if I was a tenured academic I probably wouldn't give a crap about anything, ever.

I, for one, would be a terrible teacher. I would basically be Dr Cox mixed with with...Ned Flanders.
Original post by apotoftea
It doesn't surprise me and is only going to get worse. Had an email the other day (through a mailing list) about a PhD fees bursary. The catch was fees were paid for 3 years IF you taught x amount of hours per week.

Which also asks the question of should first year PhD students be teaching?


tbh I don't think it's unfair to exchange a studentship with certain hours of teaching. I think it's better than not giving the studentship at all and as the situation is getting worse and worse with funding, better to give the studentships and ask for some hours in return than not give it at all.

I personally would like to teach from my first year. I know its time consuming but it's also very important for gaining experience.
Original post by *Corinna*
tbh I don't think it's unfair to exchange a studentship with certain hours of teaching. I think it's better than not giving the studentship at all and as the situation is getting worse and worse with funding, better to give the studentships and ask for some hours in return than not give it at all.

I personally would like to teach from my first year. I know its time consuming but it's also very important for gaining experience.


I remember when you were trying to teach me anc Greek participle phrases a few years back. It did not go well. I recall phrases like "retard" and "I'm going to strangle you, you worthless idiot" "what do you think is stronger, this heavy dictionary or the back of your skull?" being thrown around. I don't think Cambridge will appreciate your style. :redface:




....:eek::colone:
Original post by The Lyceum

I, for one, would be a terrible teacher. I would basically be Dr Cox mixed with with...Ned Flanders.


:teehee:

I was mostly taught by PhD students when it came to music history topics and musicology. My musicology tutor and one of my JRFs were outstanding, particularly the JRF. Everyone else ranged from absolutely appalling (to the point that complaints were made and they never taught Woosta undergrads again :biggrin: ) to pretty damn good.

I remember one DPhil/post-doctoral tutor who appeared to know less about contemporary classical music than I did (very worrying indeed, given I know sweet FA about classical music in general). I was like :lolwut:

Aside from him and another idiot I had for a different history topic, my experiences of PhD teaching have been quite good. I never felt cheated by the fact that my college tutor or JRFs didn't teach me everything because we were sent to subject specialists, or at least very knowledgeable people who had quickly swotted up on a topic. They did get a **** deal though. Only £20 a history tutorial, for all the work and energy that had to go into it :sadnod:
I don't think there's anything wrong with postgrads teaching - lecturing skills take time to acquire and hone. And significant teaching experience is as necessary as a good research profile in getting many academic jobs, depending of course on the university and subject.
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Ah sorry if I confused you. When I said "I wonder if part-time work would be any better?" or whatever I said, I meant in terms of cattiness/backstabbing-ness. Not so much inequalities and barriers. That, part-time obviously makes worse, rather than helps with :yes:


Ah, sorry for confusing you.
Original post by The Lyceum
I remember when you were trying to teach me anc Greek participle phrases a few years back. It did not go well. I recall phrases like "retard" and "I'm going to strangle you, you worthless idiot" "what do you think is stronger, this heavy dictionary or the back of your skull?" being thrown around. I don't think Cambridge will appreciate your style. :redface:




....:eek::colone:


I never said any of that. And in any case, my patience will be better when I'm paid for it :tongue: Also, I hope that Cambridge undergrads won't be retards :tongue:


Original post by Feefifofum
I don't think there's anything wrong with postgrads teaching - lecturing skills take time to acquire and hone. And significant teaching experience is as necessary as a good research profile in getting many academic jobs, depending of course on the university and subject.


I agree. Like everything else, teaching has a learning curve. We all need to start from somewhere and even though I understand why undergrads would feel "cheated" in reality I honestly don't think that a PhD student cannot teach basic introductory courses or supervise weekly essays. In any case you can always ask for advice from your supervisor if you feel that you have problems with something.
Original post by Feefifofum
I don't think there's anything wrong with postgrads teaching - lecturing skills take time to acquire and hone. And significant teaching experience is as necessary as a good research profile in getting many academic jobs, depending of course on the university and subject.

Yeh, I agree. Hence having mixed feelings about the article. I don't have a problem with us being apprentices and needing to practice a little bit on a low wage. The problem I have is the pressure to do that while doing your PhD. I think that if you teach you should be given another year of funding so that there's time to do your PhD properly.
Original post by apotoftea
It doesn't surprise me and is only going to get worse. Had an email the other day (through a mailing list) about a PhD fees bursary. The catch was fees were paid for 3 years IF you taught x amount of hours per week.

Which also asks the question of should first year PhD students be teaching?

Yeh I wouldn't actually mind that if it wasn't crammed into 3 years. Its unfair to have to balance teaching with doing your whole doctorate in only 3 years.
Original post by The Lyceum
Lol here at Ox first year DPhil and second year MPhil students can teach, providing they've spent some time at the uni before (e.g transitioning onto the DPhil from being an MSt here, the MPhil is 2 years etc). This is a bit scary, I've met the kinds of students we have here. They're not very bright, if I was taught by them I'd get pissed off. This is the Classics dept obviously.

Seriously though, I like some of these people but they just don't have enough knowledge to be imparting anything on a professional level. I think in general the dept here is quite willy nilly with a lot of stuff like that though. To be fair if I was a tenured academic I probably wouldn't give a crap about anything, ever.

I, for one, would be a terrible teacher. I would basically be Dr Cox mixed with with...Ned Flanders.

Well its quite different. Supervisions/tutorials are a completely different ball game to managing a seminar or giving a lecture. I would feel very confident with giving a supervision from first year, but not a lecture.

In terms of Oxbridge I think they should only let students who have been undergraduates there teach straight away. The rest definitely need a lot of training. Because the worst PhD supervisors I had were ones who had completely inappropriate expectations because they didn't know the first thing about the supervision/tutorial system and how it worked.
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
:yes:

Oh yeh... I thought you might be interested in this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdlTEEtSkpadDNNekJGdDZlM1A2OFE6MQ (Eurovision research)
Original post by Craghyrax
Ah, sorry for confusing you.


Oh you didn't confuse me at all: rather the other way round, which I apologise for. I should really learn not to write random sentences and expect people to understand them :colondollar: :getmecoat: :hugs:
Original post by Craghyrax
Oh yeh... I thought you might be interested in this:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDdlTEEtSkpadDNNekJGdDZlM1A2OFE6MQ (Eurovision research)


Oooh! :gah:

Do I have to have watched the contest this year? I haven't watched it since I left home for Oxford :colondollar:
Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd
Oooh! :gah:

Do I have to have watched the contest this year? I haven't watched it since I left home for Oxford :colondollar:


I don't know. I haven't started it yet.
Original post by Craghyrax
I don't know. I haven't started it yet.


Cool, well I'll give it a go anyway :biggrin:
Original post by Craghyrax


In terms of Oxbridge I think they should only let students who have been undergraduates there teach straight away. The rest definitely need a lot of training. Because the worst PhD supervisors I had were ones who had completely inappropriate expectations because they didn't know the first thing about the supervision/tutorial system and how it worked.


that's a very good way of prolonging the disadvantageous position of people who didn't do their undergrad there. Define inappropriate expectations. I would assume that PhD students are told what to expect and what to request from their students at tutorials. I think if PhD students don't know how the tutorial system works this is because the department did not bother having one or two sessions to explain it to them.
Reply 3898
Original post by *Corinna*
that's a very good way of prolonging the disadvantageous position of people who didn't do their undergrad there. Define inappropriate expectations. I would assume that PhD students are told what to expect and what to request from their students at tutorials. I think if PhD students don't know how the tutorial system works this is because the department did not bother having one or two sessions to explain it to them.

Not really, no. Or only in very theoretical terms which aren't that easy to apply in practice. I imagine someone who didn't experience the tutorial format first-hand might find it hard to gauge how much to expect (at least when they were starting out).
Original post by *Corinna*
that's a very good way of prolonging the disadvantageous position of people who didn't do their undergrad there. Define inappropriate expectations. I would assume that PhD students are told what to expect and what to request from their students at tutorials. I think if PhD students don't know how the tutorial system works this is because the department did not bother having one or two sessions to explain it to them.

I agree that the problem is about departments not training adequately. In fact after the really shocking experience I had with a PhD student from a different University, I asked my Director of Studies whether there was any systematic training of PhD students before they gave supervisions and she took that up with the department on my behalf and proposed that they introduce something. It does depend from department to department.
I would have no problem with non Oxbridge students teaching undergraduates having had the system explained to them in detail in a training session. My point was just that I could see why some places might allow a former Oxbridge undergrad to go straight into teaching tutorials or supervisions (especially if its the same department they did their undergrad) because they would have the confidence that this person knew the ropes, and knew what the expectations were. Whereas with someone unfamiliar with the system they can sometimes get it badly wrong, and do need to be trained first. As TLG said, most PhD students are fine, and make great supervisors. But the exceptional dire ones can be very dire indeed due to lack of training.

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