"Death to Traitors, Freedom for Britain".
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Original post by Mathemagicien
If we just wiped out every mention of race in every single textbook, who would even think about being racist? Nobody is eye-colour-ist, its not natural, so why would people be racist unless they got the idea somewhere? If we made the whole concept of racism completely alien to people, nobody would be racist.
I have South Asian relatives and it didn't occur to me they are a different race until someone pointed it out to me
It would be impractical to scrub out the very idea, but certainly placing less emphasis on the concepts themselves would help a lot of people.Original post by Mathemagicien
One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
I would say that I expect it to be more likely counter constructive. One of the best ways to not deal with an ideology is to pretend it doesn't exist rather than tackling it, which is exactly what you're proposing and exactly the problem that the West is having right now; we laugh at and ignore ideologies we don't like even when they gain momentum and become a potential threat when we should be taking them seriously and showing why they are wrong, especially in the digital age where you cannot simply erase these things from history.
Original post by tanyapotter
Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
It most certainly is terrorism and this man has been radicalised by the far-right, even if the media is reluctant to used these words. There was a clear political motive.
Original post by Betelgeuse-
Firstly... you have deliberately and selectively quoted me to make it look like a statement instead of what it was which was a question. Here it is below:
"How do you know he did not kill Mrs Cox because he was aggrieved by cuts to his mental health service and felt mrs Cox work for Syria refugees was at the expense of his own plight?"
Well done on showing your lack of honesty and integrity though.
I did not say that feeling aggrieved at mental health services being cut means he was justified... I said it to a person who portrayed his grievances as being due to white supremacy.
We dont know the extent of his mental health, if he had OCD and thats it, it clearly has zero bearing on this crime. No, we do also treat brown and black people the same.. do you remember a brown muslim beheading a frail 82 year old grandmother in London whilst shouting allah ackbar? ... He was not convicted of terrorism, it was not an act of terror. He was mentally ill. You have deep entrenched biases... thats why you ignore it. READ
You only see what confirms your bias and misconceptions.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/23/family-of-decapitated-woman-tell-of-despair-as-killer-cleared-of
"How do you know he did not kill Mrs Cox because he was aggrieved by cuts to his mental health service and felt mrs Cox work for Syria refugees was at the expense of his own plight?"
Well done on showing your lack of honesty and integrity though.
I did not say that feeling aggrieved at mental health services being cut means he was justified... I said it to a person who portrayed his grievances as being due to white supremacy.
We dont know the extent of his mental health, if he had OCD and thats it, it clearly has zero bearing on this crime. No, we do also treat brown and black people the same.. do you remember a brown muslim beheading a frail 82 year old grandmother in London whilst shouting allah ackbar? ... He was not convicted of terrorism, it was not an act of terror. He was mentally ill. You have deep entrenched biases... thats why you ignore it. READ
You only see what confirms your bias and misconceptions.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/23/family-of-decapitated-woman-tell-of-despair-as-killer-cleared-of
There was no hesitation to call Omar Mateen's a terrorist, even before we has more information on his background and mental health. By the looks of it now he was indeed mentally ill but is still viewed as a terrorist because he had a clear political motive, much like Cox's murderer and unlike the man who murdered the grandma. On the other so many insisted that terrorist Anders Breivik was mentally ill even after he was declared sane in a desperate attempt not to label a White European Christian a terrorist.
Original post by Mathemagicien
One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
I think a lot of Jewish people would be unhappy at not having their ancestors' suffering memorialised. Also, because of the Internet, it would be near impossible to actually do
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Original post by WBZ144
There was no hesitation to call Omar Mateen's a terrorist, even before we has more information on his background and mental health. By the looks of it now he was indeed mentally ill but is still viewed as a terrorist because he had a clear political motive, much like Cox's murderer and unlike the man who murdered the grandma. On the other so many insisted that terrorist Anders Breivik was mentally ill even after he was declared sane in a desperate attempt not to label a White European Christian a terrorist.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Anders Brevik isn't a terrorist. This notion that white people are never labelled as terrorists is ridiculous.
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Original post by Underscore__
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Anders Brevik isn't a terrorist. This notion that white people are never labelled as terrorists is ridiculous.
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Posted from TSR Mobile
Unless they are White Muslims it has rarely happened since 9/11. Here are just a couple of sources of many which show the reluctance to call even him a terrorist. Many times he is a "gunman" or a "mass murderer":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/12196616/Dont-call-Anders-Breivik-a-terrorist-he-is-a-sad-fantasist-leading-an-army-of-one.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/27/breivik-not-terrorist-insane-murderer
Original post by Mathemagicien
Do you not recognise the arguments?
#NotAllMuslims
#RightToReligion
#HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNaturalItIsAllah'sWill
#NotAllMuslims
#RightToReligion
#HomophobiaAndSexismIsNotOnlyNaturalItIsAllah'sWill
Your tongue-in-cheek comparison is disingenuous. Racism, sexism and homophobia are very specific in condoning discrimination and hatred for people on superficial grounds, which makes them inherently negative. As such, they are rightly condemned.
On the other hand, religions including Islam are multifaceted ideologies. They're open to interpretation: Rumi's sufism is vastly different to the violent wahabbism practised by ISIS for example. Islam is not inherently sexist or homophobic, there are feminist Muslims, LGBT Muslims, and even cultural Muslims who do not believe in Islamic theology but nevertheless identify as Muslims due to their backgrounds. If Islam consisted of primarily sexists and homophobes who are out to oppress and discriminate against anyone who doesn't agree with them, then you might have a point.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Mathemagicien
You misunderstand. To stop an ideology from taking power, you teach against it, because you want the majority of people to be against it, even if it makes a minority of people believe in that ideology - because the majority of people will stop the minority of people
To entirely vanquish an ideology from the face of the earth, you remove all mentions of it, because you don't want even a minority of people believing that ideology
Racism no longer has a chance of coming to power, but we still struggle with racist extremists, so I suggest the latter option is the best
To entirely vanquish an ideology from the face of the earth, you remove all mentions of it, because you don't want even a minority of people believing that ideology
Racism no longer has a chance of coming to power, but we still struggle with racist extremists, so I suggest the latter option is the best
Very 1984-sounding post. Orwell would be proud.
Original post by tanyapotter
Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
The only supremacy in this country is Multiculturalism and Islamism.
Original post by Mathemagicien
One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Do you seriously think not teaching something in schools would stop people from knowing about it? WW2, possibly the biggest single event in human history, a war in which most Brits' (great)-grandparents fought? There is no way to purge records of the Nazis from the history books without installing a Nazi-like police state with mass book burnings and huge seizure of private property as well as a revisionist Nazi-style education system. Not to mention Nazi Germany didn't even have any non-European immigrants and was mainly against Jews and Gypsies and 'inferior' whites. So the whole anti-immigrant movement is a completely separate thing to Nazism.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Racism is multifaceted - even Nazism has different branches, e.g. Strasserism, which was hostile to Jews not from an ethnic standpoint, but from an anti-capitalist one
You've misunderstood. The motivation for discrimination is irrelevant. What's relevant is the outcome. "We're going to discriminate against all Jews because some Jews are capitalists" is really no different to discrimination based on ethnicity alone.
Islam is inherently sexist and homophobic; just because many Muslims choose to ignore what is written in the Quran doesn't mean the Quran is all nice and pink and fluffy and lovely, just like a racist doesn't necessarily follow the anti-Semitism in Mein Kampf
That's a simplistic analysis. I'm not talking about cherry-pickers (nothing wrong with that either - at least it's progress), but the groups who do not interpret the text as homophobic and sexist. By treating Islam as a monolith and criticising it as a whole as opposed to criticising the discriminatory and violent interpretations, not only do you undermine the efforts of progressive Muslims, but you also strengthen the extremist beliefs via the backfire effect.
Original post by tanyapotter
Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
Are you just assuming this link to fascism? Plenty of people would echo both sentiments, death to traitors is probably universal, and the call for freedom of ones country could be spouted by anyone not just fascists.
Original post by Mathemagicien
One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Always thought you were a bit of an idiot from your posts but this really takes the cake.
Original post by Mathemagicien
One radical solution would be to stop the teaching of the Nazis, and purge every mention of them from historical records
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
Yes, we wouldn't have the benefit of 'learning from the past', but there will always be a minority of people who like the idea of the Nazis, and are inspired by the Holocaust - and these are the people we are worried about; we would stop giving them ideas this way, and they'd likely end up committing petty crimes instead of terrorism
What's hilariously ironic and stupid about this post is that Nazis literally did this exact thing in their own schools.
Original post by dozyrosie
Are you just assuming this link to fascism? Plenty of people would echo both sentiments, death to traitors is probably universal, and the call for freedom of ones country could be spouted by anyone not just fascists.
So much damage control it's unreal.
I have no skin in this game as I'm not a part of the regressive left who make excuses for the Islamic terrorists that act out the most violent and intolerant sections of the Quran. And neither am I someone who supports the extremely divisive rhetoric of the alt-right.
So it is certainly quite a view to see the level of hypocrisy and doublethink on display in how both the left and the right assess this tragic event.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by tanyapotter
Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005
Now that it is confirmed that his actions were clearly a result of far-right neofascism, when will we start addressing this as the terrorism that it is? White supremacy has no place in this country or in society.
He was a victim of mental illness
He was a victim of poverty
He was failed by his community
Unemployment and the economy made him this way
Original post by WBZ144
Unless they are White Muslims it has rarely happened since 9/11. Here are just a couple of sources of many which show the reluctance to call even him a terrorist. Many times he is a "gunman" or a "mass murderer":
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/12196616/Dont-call-Anders-Breivik-a-terrorist-he-is-a-sad-fantasist-leading-an-army-of-one.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/27/breivik-not-terrorist-insane-murderer
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/12196616/Dont-call-Anders-Breivik-a-terrorist-he-is-a-sad-fantasist-leading-an-army-of-one.html
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/27/breivik-not-terrorist-insane-murderer
Why are you only counting from 9/11? The first article is a view I disagree with but I don't think it's a reluctance to call him a terrorist. The second one was written before his trial, a lot of people thought he was insane
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Original post by TSRFT8
It was not even deliberate it would not make a difference if a cut out 2 words as its still what you implied.
Also i just read through the article and in no paragraph is his religion even mentioned nor what he said? So how have you come to such a drastic conclusion regarding what he said during the attack and what his religion was. Further he is not even brown he is Black. (Unless i have missed it, i would say you just blatantly lied, however if i missed it then i apoligise)
And i dont have biases, its just common fact that the mental health card is widely available for whites as compared to Brown or Black.
Also i just read through the article and in no paragraph is his religion even mentioned nor what he said? So how have you come to such a drastic conclusion regarding what he said during the attack and what his religion was. Further he is not even brown he is Black. (Unless i have missed it, i would say you just blatantly lied, however if i missed it then i apoligise)
And i dont have biases, its just common fact that the mental health card is widely available for whites as compared to Brown or Black.
Firstly of course it was deliberate, you chose very carefully where to cut of my quote. Secondly it makes a huge difference... it changes it from a statement to a question. Thirdly, given that it was a question, what on earth do you mean "its still what i implied" .. it was a very clear question... there is no "imply" about it
Maybe, just maybe you could use your initiative and google for more information on the incident ... do i have to spoon feed you EVERY CRUMB of information out there?? Here have another link, once you have done that, read a few more from different sources at different points in time from the day of the attack to his sentencing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/nicholas-salvador-became-obsessed-with-beheading-videos-weeks-before-killing-grandmother-palmira-10341234.html
(edited 7 years ago)
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