French Universities
Anybody got any experience with them or is going soon? How did you find it?
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Mh, well I'm "French", and from what I've heard universities here aren't fantastic. Most of us try to go abroad for university. It's free, but there are too many students a class.
Something called "Prepa", which is a lot harder, more expensive, and also is just in preparation for the "Grand Concours" for the Big Schools, is a lot more valued here but is typically French, and not recognized much elsewhere, nor does it give you a certificate or a guarantee of getting into one of the Grandes Ecoles.
Something called "Prepa", which is a lot harder, more expensive, and also is just in preparation for the "Grand Concours" for the Big Schools, is a lot more valued here but is typically French, and not recognized much elsewhere, nor does it give you a certificate or a guarantee of getting into one of the Grandes Ecoles.
Original post by l'amourtoujours
Anybody got any experience with them or is going soon? How did you find it?
Being French, I went as far as applying to universities in France, and I even attended a couple of my sister's lectures
. I wouldn't really recommend them. The degrees are pretty restrictive and lack flexibility. You're likely to be stuck with English, whatever you do, as well. There's no entrance selection, which means you can end up with anything between 0 and however many students got in, my local university has 1500 students for Law in 1st year. That means there are two full theatres, one following the lecturer, the other following a screen on which the video of the lecturer is shown.There's no university experience. Most people live with their parents and go to the local university, only few move out. Accommodation is often a nightmare to find, it's expensive and there's nothing that's really for students. University halls are absolutely ridiculous, they're expensive and really tiny, but it's also very difficult to get a room in one. (Yes, a room, not a room in a flat. You get your flat in a tiny room.)
People in France don't really do the nightclub thing, they're likely to end up at each other's houses or go to bars until late at night. It's nothing particularly exciting, and the university definitely doesn't organise anything like UK unis do. Regarding sports and societies, very little is offered, there isn't much support for such clubs and societies, and it sounds a bit dull, really.
That's only universities, though. There are institutes and other FE organisations that are far more reputable. Grandes Écoles and IEPs are good if you want to go into research, Business or Politics. IEPs will ask you the be the very best, though (and I mean it, A*AA is an absolute joke when you've got people who got a 20.27/20 (yes, that's possible) average and sat 11 subjects in school for the Bac). Grandes Écoles are only after the two years of convent, another name given to the "prépas".
You've got hypokhâgne/khâgne (that prépa littéraire), HEC (prépa économique et commercial), maths sup/maths spé (prépa maths), and other sciencey ones. This article will give you a better idea of what they're like, they've got a whole day of exams each week (that all count towards their final grade), and they (for most of them) have an 8am-8pm timetable from Monday to Saturday. I've met a couple that were on exchanges at Oxbridge and said it was like holidays compared to the prépas, haha.
Then you've got business and management schools, that you can get into after sitting entrance exams, but you also have an interview and they pay attention to your A-Levels. There's also art schools, architecture schools, etc, but I don't really know much about those.
I have been to university in France (luckily I was at a small one!) and it really is just a continuation of school. No real freedom, no real opportunity to meet people in the same boat as you as most students will be local, though there may be some foreigners on Erasmus exchanges. Also as most people are local nothing social is really organised.
So it's good for your French but not for anything else, really.
So it's good for your French but not for anything else, really.
I am going to Sciences Po for my masters this year. I don't know much about what it will be like but I love Paris so I am looking forward to studying there.
Original post by beefmaster
I am going to Sciences Po for my masters this year. I don't know much about what it will be like but I love Paris so I am looking forward to studying there.
You'll be fine, it's not a university per se, but a distinct category of institutes that provide students with the best teaching you could get (in France) for this field of studies. If you do definitely go there, start having a look at accommodations now, before all the undergrads do
.I think it depends, so just look at the non-Grande Ecole subjects (Law, Medicine, ...). There are some Universities which are worth to go and from what I heard the idea of teaching is basicly the same all over the country, so it is more a cultural thing, than only a uestion of quality and quantity.
The idea to decide at University if the subject is for you or not (considering Medicine) isn't necessarily a bad thing and fairer, because it doesn't depend so much on the quality of your school and the failing in subjects totally unrelated to your chosen subject. And after that the courses will be naturally smaller. It's free, so don't expect very small classes, but it depends really why, where and what you want to study.
The idea to decide at University if the subject is for you or not (considering Medicine) isn't necessarily a bad thing and fairer, because it doesn't depend so much on the quality of your school and the failing in subjects totally unrelated to your chosen subject. And after that the courses will be naturally smaller. It's free, so don't expect very small classes, but it depends really why, where and what you want to study.
Original post by Nathanielle
I think it depends, so just look at the non-Grande Ecole subjects (Law, Medicine, ...). There are some Universities which are worth to go and from what I heard the idea of teaching is basicly the same all over the country, so it is more a cultural thing, than only a uestion of quality and quantity.
The idea to decide at University if the subject is for you or not (considering Medicine) isn't necessarily a bad thing and fairer, because it doesn't depend so much on the quality of your school and the failing in subjects totally unrelated to your chosen subject. And after that the courses will be naturally smaller. It's free, so don't expect very small classes, but it depends really why, where and what you want to study.
The idea to decide at University if the subject is for you or not (considering Medicine) isn't necessarily a bad thing and fairer, because it doesn't depend so much on the quality of your school and the failing in subjects totally unrelated to your chosen subject. And after that the courses will be naturally smaller. It's free, so don't expect very small classes, but it depends really why, where and what you want to study.
The course gets smaller because they only take a certain amount of people to carry on onto second year, for Medicine. I was talking to a Law student who said 2/3 of the 1st years didn't make it onto 2nd year either, and it's very common for people to take the same year twice. Even a friend doing English (pretty much a doss subject) said her class went from 36 to 17 after the 1st year (and she's at a private university).
Taking the example of Medicine (nothing else's really like that), there's a (stupid) tradition of 2nd years fluffing around in 1st years classes. Lecturers just end up leaving the class and never finish their lecture. I've had friends having to buy the lectures from 2nd years who had them because they couldn't finish it. And usually, people will take extra classes to make sure they do get their first year. One of my best friend was brilliant in school, and failed her 1st Med year despite having all the lectures and having had extra classes, simply because she didn't quite make the quota (she was two people away from having her 1st year).
People going to university in France do it for the career, not necessarily because it interests them. Sciences are more than welcome, and art subjects suffer far more than in England (French, as opposed to English, is massively undersubscribed). I'm obviously biased because I moved to England, but I seriously can't see a thing that's better at uni in France than in England (apart from the French-speaking people, and the fact that it's more or less fairer than the admission process, as well as the very small tuition fees (it's not entirely free)).
Original post by Anatheme
You'll be fine, it's not a university per se, but a distinct category of institutes that provide students with the best teaching you could get (in France) for this field of studies. If you do definitely go there, start having a look at accommodations now, before all the undergrads do .
.I have my own accommodation sorted already so no worries on that front!
Original post by Anatheme
...
People going to university in France do it for the career, not necessarily because it interests them. Sciences are more than welcome, and art subjects suffer far more than in England (French, as opposed to English, is massively undersubscribed). I'm obviously biased because I moved to England, but I seriously can't see a thing that's better at uni in France than in England (apart from the French-speaking people, and the fact that it's more or less fairer than the admission process, as well as the very small tuition fees (it's not entirely free)).
People going to university in France do it for the career, not necessarily because it interests them. Sciences are more than welcome, and art subjects suffer far more than in England (French, as opposed to English, is massively undersubscribed). I'm obviously biased because I moved to England, but I seriously can't see a thing that's better at uni in France than in England (apart from the French-speaking people, and the fact that it's more or less fairer than the admission process, as well as the very small tuition fees (it's not entirely free)).
I did not to sound enthuastic (Did I?), but as we don't know nothing about the Threadstarter we don't know, what (s)he wants, so I tried to give a more general opinion.
Hm, but there are some universities that "prepare" their students better to succeed into the second year of Medicine, e.g. with additional tutorials. (I have to admit, I forget where.) Yes, the courses gets smaller, because a lot of people fail. (Okay, perhaps I should have pointed that out, but I am used to failure rates of 60%.)
To keep it short, I don't want to contradict you.
I'm going for my year abroad (third year)in September so I just wanted to find out the general workings of the system from people who actually have experience of it though. I wasn't really expecting it to be like in the UK from what I've heard but it's good to have other perspectives, so thanks everyone 
omg so helpful!
a few questions from my side too if you don't mind
is accommodation really very difficult?
are they welcoming to internationals? would we stand a fair chance? and would there be racism of any sort? (i'm pakistani very brown but liberal and also secular)
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
i'd much rather come to the UK but the zero-tuition is just wow. and i kinda like the idea of being immersed in everything french
thanks and love to anyone who helps!
a few questions from my side too if you don't mind
is accommodation really very difficult?
are they welcoming to internationals? would we stand a fair chance? and would there be racism of any sort? (i'm pakistani very brown but liberal and also secular)
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
i'd much rather come to the UK but the zero-tuition is just wow. and i kinda like the idea of being immersed in everything french
thanks and love to anyone who helps!
Original post by catface I
omg so helpful!
a few questions from my side too if you don't mind
is accommodation really very difficult?
are they welcoming to internationals? would we stand a fair chance? and would there be racism of any sort? (i'm pakistani very brown but liberal and also secular)
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
i'd much rather come to the UK but the zero-tuition is just wow. and i kinda like the idea of being immersed in everything french
thanks and love to anyone who helps!
a few questions from my side too if you don't mind
is accommodation really very difficult?
are they welcoming to internationals? would we stand a fair chance? and would there be racism of any sort? (i'm pakistani very brown but liberal and also secular)
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
i'd much rather come to the UK but the zero-tuition is just wow. and i kinda like the idea of being immersed in everything french
thanks and love to anyone who helps!
As long as you don't try to convince anyone that Islam is the way forward (please don't read this as a racist comment, it's not!), you should have no problem with that, my friend spent 8 months teaching in France and his being a Muslim Gujarat seemingly didn't affect anything. Accommodation can be a nightmare depending on where you want to go. Paris is probably the worse, so you need to do that nice and early, and there isn't any student accommodations or private halls or anything, you'll just get a flat by yourself somewhere, like most French people not living at home.
You could have a look at Norway an Sweden if you don't want to pay tuition, they've got programmes entirely in English and education is also free. As for admissions, you'll have to look at the stuff yourself, it varies from a university to another as there's no real admission process (French people get in as long as they've signed up on time and got 10/20 for the Bac, but it may be different for foreigners). Marilyn's currently applying, so she can give you an idea of what you have to go through.
xmarilynx
Need your help!
1-Grandes Ecoles (Elite Schools): Elitist Universities, Harvard/MIT style, very few students per class BUT complex to get accepted into, and you need to do hardwork in both pre-admitting and after.
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless), OVERCROWDED and they weed out 60-70% of the students in the first year (And sometimes in the second and third).
Both have very low tuition fees.
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless), OVERCROWDED and they weed out 60-70% of the students in the first year (And sometimes in the second and third).
Both have very low tuition fees.
Original post by Pochi_X
1-Grandes Ecoles (Elite Schools): Elitist Universities, Harvard/MIT style, very few students per class BUT complex to get accepted into, and you need to do hardwork in both pre-admitting and after.
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless), OVERCROWDED and they weed out 60-70% of the students in the first year (And sometimes in the second and third).
Both have very low tuition fees.
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless), OVERCROWDED and they weed out 60-70% of the students in the first year (And sometimes in the second and third).
Both have very low tuition fees.
Science Po is as crowded as a regular university, except you actually pay shedloads to get an education (my degree in the UK is currently cheaper than that of a Science Po student). And to get into other Grandes Écoles, you need to follow une prépa, which is two years of hell that make the workload at Oxbridge look like a piece of cake. Then only you can take the exam and hope you'll get into a GE.
And universities are not for those who "couldn't get accepted into a GE", rather for people whose interest are different from Economics, Engineering or Politics. As far as I'm aware, there is no GE that offers Medicine or languages…
Original post by Anatheme
Science Po is as crowded as a regular university, except you actually pay shedloads to get an education (my degree in the UK is currently cheaper than that of a Science Po student). And to get into other Grandes Écoles, you need to follow une prépa, which is two years of hell that make the workload at Oxbridge look like a piece of cake. Then only you can take the exam and hope you'll get into a GE.
And universities are not for those who "couldn't get accepted into a GE", rather for people whose interest are different from Economics, Engineering or Politics. As far as I'm aware, there is no GE that offers Medicine or languages…
And universities are not for those who "couldn't get accepted into a GE", rather for people whose interest are different from Economics, Engineering or Politics. As far as I'm aware, there is no GE that offers Medicine or languages…
Hey, I'm curious as to what the prépa actually entails regarding workload. My French assistant did 2 years of the literary prépa but didn't get in to a Grandé école. She did mention how tough it was =S However she started at l'Université Paris III in the third year (convenient).
If a person doing the prépa does end up at a normal university, how do they find the workload? Really easy?
Also, can you do a transfer year to Oxbridge as a prépa student? or do you have to be at a Grande Ecole? I know several french students who applied to Oxford while doing their Prépa (Maths based subjects) and didn't get in. Which confuses me considering how tough is its, it seems like the perfect preparation for an application - and they can obviously cope with the workload.
Original post by Anatheme
As long as you don't try to convince anyone that Islam is the way forward (please don't read this as a racist comment, it's not!), you should have no problem with that, my friend spent 8 months teaching in France and his being a Muslim Gujarat seemingly didn't affect anything. Accommodation can be a nightmare depending on where you want to go. Paris is probably the worse, so you need to do that nice and early, and there isn't any student accommodations or private halls or anything, you'll just get a flat by yourself somewhere, like most French people not living at home.
You could have a look at Norway an Sweden if you don't want to pay tuition, they've got programmes entirely in English and education is also free. As for admissions, you'll have to look at the stuff yourself, it varies from a university to another as there's no real admission process (French people get in as long as they've signed up on time and got 10/20 for the Bac, but it may be different for foreigners). Marilyn's currently applying, so she can give you an idea of what you have to go through.
You could have a look at Norway an Sweden if you don't want to pay tuition, they've got programmes entirely in English and education is also free. As for admissions, you'll have to look at the stuff yourself, it varies from a university to another as there's no real admission process (French people get in as long as they've signed up on time and got 10/20 for the Bac, but it may be different for foreigners). Marilyn's currently applying, so she can give you an idea of what you have to go through.
Haha yes I realize that isn't racist at all. To be honest with you I'm not very big on Islam though my parents and all are. I was more worried people would take offence to my skin tone. Stereotyping and all that you know. But your post's got me feeling better
Sigh there's no getting around accommodation issues I see
I think Norway and Sweden have introduced tuition for non-EUs this year on. Haha bad timing. If I'd only been applying a year ago.
Oh I'll wait for Marilyn then.
Original post by Pochi_X
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless)
2-Public Universities: For those that couldn't get accepted into a Grandes Ecoles, only require you to have High School Certificate with no specific marks (Be it low or high, you get accepted regardless)
Do you think this holds for international students too? I hope to get 3-4 A level A grades.
Original post by Anatheme
And universities are not for those who "couldn't get accepted into a GE", rather for people whose interest are different from Economics, Engineering or Politics. As far as I'm aware, there is no GE that offers Medicine or languages…
And universities are not for those who "couldn't get accepted into a GE", rather for people whose interest are different from Economics, Engineering or Politics. As far as I'm aware, there is no GE that offers Medicine or languages…
Completely agree there. I hope to do something somewhere in the humanities myself.
Original post by catface I
a few questions from my side too if you don't mind
is accommodation really very difficult?
Since you don't pay (well, except for the frais d'inscription that Anatheme mentioned, but tbh €150 doesn't really count when you compare it to £10,000) unis expect you to be far more independent and sort everything out for yourself. For acommodation, some students (like me) find a 'logement contre services' deal, where you babysit or give free English lessons in return for a free room/appartment. Otherwise you'll have to look at renting in the private sector, which can be expensive but since jobs are far better paid here (around €10 an hour for waitressing, babysitting etc, compared to like £5 in the UK) it doesn't work out too badly if you're careful with your money. Most students get their rent down by 'colocation' where they share with their friends, and you can find coloc deals and people to share with on French student websites. There are uni halls, but there are far more students than places, so if you're an international student outside of an exchange like Erasmus, you're on your own and don't qualify.
On the same 'independent' theme, Anatheme's right about the lack of student organisations. There are some, but with the exception of a couple of universities like Strasbourg all you'll really find is political stuff. My advice would be to crash the
Erasmus parties and make friends with people from the Grandes Ecoles (ESCP parties are beyond crazy!
).In general, universities here just expect you to be far more grown up about the whole thing, you find everything for yourself, they're not going to spoonfeed you. That suits me fine but it's not for everyone and it's definitely not the typical student experience, so think about what you want before deciding.
are they welcoming to internationals? would we stand a fair chance? and would there be racism of any sort? (i'm pakistani very brown but liberal and also secular)
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
and what do they require for admission? teacher recommendations and lists of extra-curricular activities like american unis? or would A level grades suffice?
Here in Paris there are a lot of internationals and it's great. I've met quite a lot of Asians here and have yet to hear of a bad experience. As far as I know France in general is pretty welcoming to internationals.
For universities you'll need to provide your A Level certificates plus a translation by a traducteur assermenté, CV, lettre de motivation,
photocopy of your passport and a French language test (TCF, DELF or DALF) with a level of at least B2. Some French universities (eg Dauphine) particularly for some subjects (Law, LEA) are more competitive than people in this thread are admitting. It's true that for the most part French people need passing grades in the Bac, but that's already a tough exam, it's not like accepting Ds and Es at A Level
Also French unis are more selective once you get there, so people that aren't putting the work in and getting the grades get kicked out.i'd much rather come to the UK but the zero-tuition is just wow. and i kinda like the idea of being immersed in everything french
French immersion was my main motivation too, and the lack of tuition fees sure is a bonus
(edited 12 years ago)
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