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Bristol vs Edinburgh for Math and Comp. Science?

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    I know that the 2 universities are decently good for the course I have chosen but still I have no clue which one to firm. I would say that I prefer Mathematics slightly more (and am way better at it) than Informatics. There is also the option where I take a gap year and reapply to Oxford...So if anyone could give me some advice it would be much appecated .
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    (Original post by Tro1face)
    I know that the 2 universities are decently good for the course I have chosen but still I have no clue which one to firm. I would say that I prefer Mathematics slightly more (and am way better at it) than Informatics. There is also the option where I take a gap year and reapply to Oxford...So if anyone could give me some advice it would be much appecated .
    It seems that one university is offering for maths and the other for CS, is this right? Or is it joint honours? As this needs to be your first consideration before you even begin to compare the actual universities.

    Have you visited both universities? If so what are your thoughts?
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    (Original post by oxymoronic)
    It seems that one university is offering for maths and the other for CS, is this right? Or is it joint honours? As this needs to be your first consideration before you even begin to compare the actual universities.

    Have you visited both universities? If so what are your thoughts?
    Sorry I guess I haven't made it very clear. It is the joint honors course in both universities (both of the courses are 4 years because I have applied for the MEng one in Bristol). I haven't visited either of them(mainly because I live in a different country from the UK and it is not very conviniet to travel half way through Europe).
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    (Original post by Tro1face)
    Sorry I guess I haven't made it very clear. It is the joint honors course in both universities (both of the courses are 4 years because I have applied for the MEng one in Bristol). I haven't visited either of them(mainly because I live in a different country from the UK and it is not very conviniet to travel half way through Europe).
    Well... yes... but if you're only in Europe then it's not overly expensive/difficult to come over and spend a day in each location as there's such cheap flights. It is expensive, yes, but the financial outlay would be a couple of hundred pounds and you're considering spending the best part of £50,000 to get a degree from one of these universities so it needs to be the right decision for you. Depending on where you are it might be easier/cheaper for you to come and visit than it would be for someone living in the UK to do so.

    For what its worth one of my old flatmates did the maths and computer science course at Edinburgh, she really enjoyed it. Edinburgh have a very strong informatics department and as a result of that the course there is very good. I have no idea about Bristol though as I didn't go there.

    If you're from the EU and would be eligible for EU funding then this is something you should also consider as in Scotland you will get free tuition whereas in Bristol it will cost you £9000 a year, so £36,000 for the four years. Whether this is an issue for you depends on your financial situation.
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    (Original post by oxymoronic)
    ...
    I am more interested in the level of the course and student competitiveness. Liking the place comes 2nd for me. So I would like to hear the opinion of people who have attended at least one of the universities .
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    I teach at Edinburgh, will that do? First let me say that in my opinion you have two good courses there, so there are probably no bad choices. Edinburgh gives you a rather wider choice of courses, especially in Informatics (being bigger). It also has a large and strong group (LFCS) in theoretical computer science, so there are no gaps in the spectrum across from maths to CS, iwsyim. If you want to have a look at Edinburgh Informatics course material, here's the (2011/12) set of rules about what courses you can choose and here's the list of courses being taught this year. In most cases you can click down to the page current students see and get lecture notes, etc., which might be helpful.

    Our students seem to be very well regarded by employers (but I'm sure my Bristol colleagues will say the same: again, both places are good), assuming that's what you mean by student competitiveness. If you mean how much students compete among themselves, I think this varies a lot between the students! Our course is generally considered very hard work, but rewarding, or at least that's what the students tell me...
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    I'm a student in informatics at Edinburgh, almost at the end of 2nd year here but my fist year at the uni (direct entry student). I studied CS at 2 other universities in 2 different countries prior to this so I think I have a good perspective of the different levels of undergraduate CS. I have even repeated one or two courses that I did at other universities at UoE and there is a huge difference.

    From my dealings with academics in different countries (don't know about employers), Edinburgh is very very very well known for Computer Science. If you really want an idea how good a university is at a certain subject, don't put too much stock into ratings and rankings because most of them don't reflect individual departments very well. This is clear in the case of informatics, because informatics at Edinburgh seems to have a special status at the university and it's own *huge* department (the informatics forum) which is apparently the biggest informatics research group in the EU (people outside the EU have often told me UoE is the best in CS research in the entire EU!).

    The rankings and rating of the university will be irrelevant after you get here or say Bristol. What matters is the courses. These are the required courses of Edinburgh AI and CS degree: http://www.drps.ed.ac.uk/11-12/dpt/utaicsc.htm Click the blue course codes to find another link to each individual courses webpage, go to that webpage and you'll find lectures, video recording of lectures, tutorials, assignments - it's all there! Compare the course selections with those at Bristol and i'm sure you'll see a difference. For a start, Bristol doesn't even offer a Bsc in Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh does. This is a big deal. AI is huge at Edinburgh, and the fact that they have so many researchers in the field (which falls under informatics) allows them to offer courses in it and an undergraduate degree in Artificial Intelligence or combined with CS. That is a reflection of how advanced the CS/informatics department is here.

    The undergraduate CS courses at Edinburgh are very advanced. I am doing courses here in 2nd year that I would only do at 3rd year or 4th year level at the universities I previously attended. This even applies to really good CS departments abroad in the US - Edinburgh's module choices in informatics beat most US universities hands down. Why is this? It all has to do with the research done here - researchers in informatics have to teach courses while they work here (department rule). Because there are just so many researchers that means more courses and higher quality of courses due to a more diverse group of researchers to select from (ie you actually get someone who specialises in machine learning research teaching your machine learning course) - this isn't the case at alot of universities! At the end of some courses the lecturer will have a few lectures on his/her actual research and are really clued up on research in the field around the world. This can be a pro and con though, as many of them are extremely intelligent academics and that doesn't always make for the best lecturers (*some* are condescending, impatient or just dont know how to deal with students/eccentric - but they are all know their stuff very well). But if you follow them you will learn things you wont learn anywhere else easily at undergrad level in CS.

    I am repeating courses I did at other universities in CS. For example, data structures. I did this course in 2nd year CS at a uni in England, and now i'm doing it at UoE again. I have covered most of the topics already, but the depth it goes into at Edinburgh makes it pretty much a completely different subject and I'm learnings tons more! I compare what i'm doing with former classmates in CS at another uni and i'm totally ahead. I've done things at Edinburgh in 2 lectures that took 2 weeks at other universities. Don't listen to people who say that it doesn't really matter where you do your undergraduate because it really does make a huge difference how much depth your courses go into.

    By the way just the computer science degree at Edinburgh is very maths heavy. You should do 2 years of pure maths/stats as part of that (I am). But even in later years you use alot of stats for machine learning and tons of cs topics and that's a good sign.

    I do think the tutorials at Edinburgh are quite bad. It really depends on which tutor you get. You get assigned to tutors for courses and the quality of tutors vary from the lecturer (who knows everything) to postdoc/phd students (who are sometimes as confused as you). But if you just move groups its fine (towards the end of the semester no one will be attending the bad groups). The worst tutors I have ever had at university have been at Edinburgh which was surprising. I think its because so many students are quite smart here that they can get away with having bad tutorials, while at other universities most people will fail. There is alot more self study at Edinburgh. The feedback at Edinburgh is also quite bad. But you'll have these problems at every university.

    The maths for informatics course here is also bad, but this is the last year they are doing it so that's fine for you.

    So yes, CS at Edinburgh is very good. And I mean very good. Like as good as you are going to get in the EU for CS. Like almost up there with Stanford, MIT, Berkeley and probably better in CS than most ivies. Unfortunately, people will always think the big names are undoubtedly better but I promise you that if you complete a CS undergrad at Edinburgh you will know that you have as good a training in CSas students from these universities.

    I think Bristol is probably quite good, but I think Edinburgh is an exception when it comes to Informatics. I don't think many of the other departments at Edinburgh are on the same level but I could be wrong..
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    I'm a student in informatics at Edinburgh, almost at the end of 2nd year here but my fist year at the uni (direct entry student). I studied CS at 2 other universities in 2 different countries prior to this so I think I have a good perspective of the different levels of undergraduate CS. I have even repeated one or two courses that I did at other universities at UoE and there is a huge difference.

    From my dealings with academics in different countries (don't know about employers), Edinburgh is very very very well known for Computer Science. If you really want an idea how good a university is at a certain subject, don't put too much stock into ratings and rankings because most of them don't reflect individual departments very well. This is clear in the case of informatics, because informatics at Edinburgh seems to have a special status at the university and it's own *huge* department (the informatics forum) which is apparently the biggest informatics research group in the EU (people outside the EU have often told me UoE is the best in CS research in the entire EU!).

    The rankings and rating of the university will be irrelevant after you get here or say Bristol. What matters is the courses. These are the required courses of Edinburgh AI and CS degree: http://www.drps.ed.ac.uk/11-12/dpt/utaicsc.htm Click the blue course codes to find another link to each individual courses webpage, go to that webpage and you'll find lectures, video recording of lectures, tutorials, assignments - it's all there! Compare the course selections with those at Bristol and i'm sure you'll see a difference. For a start, Bristol doesn't even offer a Bsc in Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh does. This is a big deal. AI is huge at Edinburgh, and the fact that they have so many researchers in the field (which falls under informatics) allows them to offer courses in it and an undergraduate degree in Artificial Intelligence or combined with CS. That is a reflection of how advanced the CS/informatics department is here.
    True. Especially for the earlier parts of the paragraph

    But I will be careful to word my own sentence if I say "I have a good perspective of the different levels of undergraduate CS" . Being in 2 other Unis does not give you the authority to say how other Unis conduct their degree and which is better than the others; the sample is not (yet) strong.

    The undergraduate CS courses at Edinburgh are very advanced. I am doing courses here in 2nd year that I would only do at 3rd year or 4th year level at the universities I previously attended. This even applies to really good CS departments abroad in the US - Edinburgh's module choices in informatics beat most US universities hands down. Why is this? It all has to do with the research done here - researchers in informatics have to teach courses while they work here (department rule). Because there are just so many researchers that means more courses and higher quality of courses due to a more diverse group of researchers to select from (ie you actually get someone who specialises in machine learning research teaching your machine learning course) - this isn't the case at alot of universities! At the end of some courses the lecturer will have a few lectures on his/her actual research and are really clued up on research in the field around the world. This can be a pro and con though, as many of them are extremely intelligent academics and that doesn't always make for the best lecturers (*some* are condescending, impatient or just dont know how to deal with students/eccentric - but they are all know their stuff very well). But if you follow them you will learn things you wont learn anywhere else easily at undergrad level in CS.
    I do not agree that the more researchers you have the higher quality of courses due to a more diverse group of researchers to select from. I went to an institution higher than Edinburgh and this is not the case.

    However, I agree completely that even though the lecturers and tutors know their stuff very well, but *some* are condescending, impatient or just dont know how to deal with students/eccentric - this does not reflect well in the quality of education doesn't it?

    I am repeating courses I did at other universities in CS. For example, data structures. I did this course in 2nd year CS at a uni in England, and now i'm doing it at UoE again. I have covered most of the topics already, but the depth it goes into at Edinburgh makes it pretty much a completely different subject and I'm learnings tons more! I compare what i'm doing with former classmates in CS at another uni and i'm totally ahead. I've done things at Edinburgh in 2 lectures that took 2 weeks at other universities. Don't listen to people who say that it doesn't really matter where you do your undergraduate because it really does make a huge difference how much depth your courses go into.
    If you're repeating, yes, it's either the course is hard or you just have lousy educators and support system.

    Or you're just lazy; but I don't think you are Have no evidence to support that claim but just a gut feeling :hugs:

    By the way just the computer science degree at Edinburgh is very maths heavy. You should do 2 years of pure maths/stats as part of that (I am). But even in later years you use alot of stats for machine learning and tons of cs topics and that's a good sign.

    I do think the tutorials at Edinburgh are quite bad. It really depends on which tutor you get. You get assigned to tutors for courses and the quality of tutors vary from the lecturer (who knows everything) to postdoc/phd students (who are sometimes as confused as you). But if you just move groups its fine (towards the end of the semester no one will be attending the bad groups). The worst tutors I have ever had at university have been at Edinburgh which was surprising. I think its because so many students are quite smart here that they can get away with having bad tutorials, while at other universities most people will fail. There is alot more self study at Edinburgh. The feedback at Edinburgh is also quite bad. But you'll have these problems at every university.
    What's the class population for tutorials? I heard it's quite large. If it's large, I don't see how it's going to help the students..

    The maths for informatics course here is also bad, but this is the last year they are doing it so that's fine for you.
    How do you mean? If it's really bad, then you shouldn't be surprise, outsiders as well, that students in the 3rd and 4th level would struggle since you yourself indicate that the modules in CS are maths intensive.

    BTW, I have seen the Informatics Forum. It's really an odd building It's near a mosque and some shops. But Edinburgh is a hilly and lovely place
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    (Original post by kka25)
    Being in 2 other Unis does not give you the authority to say how other Unis conduct their degree and which is better than the others; the sample is not (yet) strong.

    (Original post by kka25)
    I went to an institution higher than Edinburgh and this is not the case.
    Lol. What gives you the authority to say your institution is 'higher' than Edinburgh? Don't be a hypocrite.

    I have been lucky enough to experience undergrad CS at 3 (soon to be 4) universities in 4 different countries. You'll be hard pressed to find someone else who has done the same and can actually tell you the differences in undergrad CS experiences around the world. Most will give second hand information. My information isn't second hand. Sure, many move around alot after postgrad, but that a completely different issue. The differences in the first/second year CS courses I have studied at different universities is extremely broad. What most students are capable of at each university is very different.

    Tutorials are small 8-10 a group. There's nothing wrong with big groups for tutorials.

    Uh, you have a gut feeling that I'm lazy, but you don't think so? Does not compute. Tell you what, troll elsewhere (preferably on your 'higher' institutions forums) - I'm giving the OP first hand advice.
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)

    I have been lucky enough to experience undergrad CS at 3 (soon to be 4) universities in 4 different countries. You'll be hard pressed to find someone else who has done the same and can actually tell you the differences in undergrad CS experiences around the world. Most will give second hand information. My information isn't second hand. Sure, many move around alot after postgrad, but that a completely different issue. The differences in the first/second year CS courses I have studied at different universities is extremely broad. What most students are capable of at each university is very different.

    Tutorials are small 8-10 a group. There's nothing wrong with big groups for tutorials.

    Uh, you have a gut feeling that I'm lazy, but you don't think so? Does not compute. Tell you what, troll elsewhere (preferably on your 'higher' institutions forums) - I'm giving the OP first hand advice.
    First of all you have taken the post completely the wrong way. Why be so defensive about it?

    Lol. What gives you the authority to say your institution is 'higher' than Edinburgh? Don't be a hypocrite.
    Well since you cite those big uni name, the institution that I was from is as well and it's a fact from the tables people seem to glorify, and I don't need to put in the name of the institution to glorify it - I myself don't believe in the superficial prestige of league tables. However, I'm citing what the society would know where the institution comes from, and using that fact, it's higher than yours. Owh, and don't worry, I had an offer from Edin as well so I know the Uni very well. So based on the prior argument, I refute your accusation of being a hypocrite.

    3 -4 does not give you the power to generalize to a great extend; in-fact, it's still biased. This is basic statistics. I thought CS students should know this by now

    Well, I have someone from Edin that is doing CS that informed me that their tutorials are massive, go blame the Edin CS student for stating the info

    Massive tutorials and class size does impact most students' concentration and retention rate. Where do you get that size does not matter I don't know. I would think you're basing it on your own (bias) opinion?

    The subject I was talking about was you, and the object was ;you're not lazy, but I don't have any evidence to support the claim that you're lazy but just a gut feeling that you're not a lazy person; if you're still lumpy about it, I was complementing you.

    Before you want to be all defensive and emotional, read the post carefully and diligently. Your reply has just tainted my opinion towards you.
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    Emotional and defensive?

    (Original post by Tro1face)
    So I would like to hear the opinion of people who have attended at least one of the universities .
    That is the point of this thread, please don't hijack with pointless trolling, arguments and obvious baiting. If you haven't attended either university, your opinion is not relevant here.
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    From what I've gathered up until now:
    1) Edinburgh CS department is world renowned and has a great research base even though teaching may not be the best.
    2) Maths at Edinburgh is not that great?
    3) @Martin what does "The maths for informatics course here is also bad, but this is the last year they are doing it so that's fine for you. " mean? That the math and comp science course would be discontinued and transformed only to comp science or something else? Please do clarify.

    If anyone could give me similar information about Bristol it would be much apritiated .
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    Emotional and defensive?

    That is the point of this thread, please don't hijack with pointless trolling, arguments and obvious baiting. If you haven't attended either university, your opinion is not relevant here.
    If you can't even quote me and answer almost all my questions, I figured, you're the troll here. Your arguments are basically defensive and emotional; if you want to hurl people with accusations, make sure you have evidence to support it.

    Furthermore, you have no evidence to support any of your claim, just based on some biased opinion which can be very misleading. When I confronted/attacked your arguments, you didn't even respond with a good respond to any of my questions plus you don't have a clear reasoning on doing so, other than you insist it is what it is. The only thing you're doing at the moment is being confrontational and hurling accusations and not even defending your arguments. Weird...

    You're misleading the OP since you have no clue really how real opinions are formalized and how to even defend it. If you so believe in your own experience, why not defend it when people asked? Since that is what you believe anyway.
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    (Original post by Tro1face)
    From what I've gathered up until now:
    1) Edinburgh CS department is world renowned and has a great research base .
    Specifically for AI, my professors (two of them) said the same thing. A guy from Portugal who did his Masters in Law knows this little fact as well! :eek: But check again and again whether you would like how they teach there at the Uni

    2) Maths at Edinburgh is not that great?
    3) @Martin what does "The maths for informatics course here is also bad, but this is the last year they are doing it so that's fine for you. " mean? That the math and comp science course would be discontinued and transformed only to comp science or something else? Please do clarify.
    This was my question just now as well =/

    If anyone could give me similar information about Bristol it would be much apritiated .
    Psyk is from the Uni of Bristol. You could ask him. He's a user here on TSR
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    (Original post by Tro1face)
    From what I've gathered up until now:
    1) Edinburgh CS department is world renowned and has a great research base even though teaching may not be the best.
    2) Maths at Edinburgh is not that great?
    3) @Martin what does "The maths for informatics course here is also bad, but this is the last year they are doing it so that's fine for you. " mean? That the math and comp science course would be discontinued and transformed only to comp science or something else? Please do clarify.

    If anyone could give me similar information about Bristol it would be much apritiated .
    1.) Pretty much. The teaching is good, it's just that the subjects will be a bit trickier than other places and it will sometimes be hard to follow. Students tend to be smarter so lectures tend to explain less. Had an AI lecture today where we learned a technique that was pioneered by Edinburgh informatics department. He went on to explain how it was developed and by who, and why in AI Edinburgh is considered best in EU with Cambridge behind. Quite interesting.
    2.) It is good, I am not in the maths department so I'm not sure. I do have lecturers from maths and they are good.
    3.) If you study informatics here you have to do maths as part of it, but you take a special course called maths for informatics. They are separate from the 'real' math courses that all math majors must take. If you study both maths and computer science or AI (so one of your majors is maths), then you will take the 'real' maths modules in the math department. I heard they are also discontinuing those maths for informatics classes so the informatics people have to take the 'real' maths courses also from next year. So if you study maths and comp sci here you shouldn't have any problems with rushed maths courses.
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    1.) Pretty much. The teaching is good, it's just that the subjects will be a bit trickier than other places and it will sometimes be hard to follow. Students tend to be smarter so lectures tend to explain less. Had an AI lecture today where we learned a technique that was pioneered by Edinburgh informatics department. He went on to explain how it was developed and by who, and why in AI Edinburgh is considered best in EU with Cambridge behind. Quite interesting.
    2.) It is good, I am not in the maths department so I'm not sure. I do have lecturers from maths and they are good.
    3.) If you study informatics here you have to do maths as part of it, but you take a special course called maths for informatics. They are separate from the 'real' math courses that all math majors must take. If you study both maths and computer science or AI (so one of your majors is maths), then you will take the 'real' maths modules in the math department. I heard they are also discontinuing those maths for informatics classes so the informatics people have to take the 'real' maths courses also from next year. So if you study maths and comp sci here you shouldn't have any problems with rushed maths courses.
    Wait? So they don't follow the artificial intelligence modern approach book?
    Also i'm sorry the OP should forget everything you say because you are unable to defend any of your opinion's or even back it up with proof.

    2nd in research for AI just behind Cambridge? Based on What? I didn't know the RAE covered AI as well? (I'm not making your point invalid i just want to know where you got your information on so you are not misleading the OP which it seems like you are.....)
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    Just because you don't agree with my opinion, it does not mean I'm misleading the OP. What exactly do you know about Edinburgh CS - have you studied here? The RAE obviously covers everything that falls under CS/informatics and Edinburgh submitted more than double Cambridge, Imperial etc staff and still came out with 35% in the top category. Do the math : http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...nd-informatics

    I remember why I don't post on these boards, either people are incredibly stupid or are actually trolling. I am sure you are a self professed expert on every university department in the UK, especially those universities you have never studied/worked at.
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    Just because you don't agree with my opinion, it does not mean I'm misleading the OP. What exactly do you know about Edinburgh CS - have you studied here? The RAE obviously covers everything that falls under CS/informatics and Edinburgh submitted more than double Cambridge, Imperial etc staff and still came out with 35% in the top category. Do the math : http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...nd-informatics

    I remember why I don't post on these boards, either people are incredibly stupid or are actually trolling. I am sure you are a self professed expert on every university department in the UK, especially those universities you have never studied/worked at.
    He doesn't agree with your (bias) opinion because it's just plain and clearly bias and very misleading; you don't have any strong evidence to support your claim. Your're the TROLL here.

    And you? Have you even finished studying at Edinburgh? You haven't even finished a single degree and now acting all pompous as if you know so much how all Universities work. Experienced 3 universities? Did you finish even one!?

    The RAE COVERS EVERYTHING? REALLY? :rolleyes: Where's your proof?

    The self professed pompous of a troll expert on every university in the UK is YOU. Now the label hypocrite really reflects nicely to you don't you think so?

    You yourself have no clue how all the UK unis work! The fact that you went to 3 unis, which you claim earlier, where you changed from 2, now 3 and suddenly 4, (graduated or not is still in speculation) in DIFFERENT COUNTRIES does not give you the authority to generalize that your experience should be taken seriously. It's what scientist called a bias claim!

    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    I remember why I don't post on these boards, either people are incredibly stupid or are actually trolling.
    People? Which people? You? Of course!

    If you think the folks of TSR are stupid, why even bother posting in the first place? Heck, if you want to act all snobbish, why even bother register as well? Leave this forum and go do some programming assignments like the good students of Edinburgh :yep:
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    (Original post by MartinMorrison)
    Just because you don't agree with my opinion, it does not mean I'm misleading the OP. What exactly do you know about Edinburgh CS - have you studied here? The RAE obviously covers everything that falls under CS/informatics and Edinburgh submitted more than double Cambridge, Imperial etc staff and still came out with 35% in the top category. Do the math : http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...nd-informatics

    I remember why I don't post on these boards, either people are incredibly stupid or are actually trolling. I am sure you are a self professed expert on every university department in the UK, especially those universities you have never studied/worked at.
    If I'm not mistaken this statement turned out inaccurate?

    "and why in AI Edinburgh is considered best in EU with Cambridge behind"

    So you were misleading? unless you denial that? You're making all of these statements without any proof why should anyone take your word for it?

    You seem to give the impression that "I go to the almighty University of Edinburgh for Computer Science my word is law!"
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    (Original post by kka25)
    d
    :laugh: owned.

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