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Original post by TheEarlMarshal
Just because they are public figures does not mean they should use the NHS. I bet if you had billions you'd use private hospitals over public ones. And many of these private facilities are used to treating high profile individuals with specific security arrangements.


Who provided the billions? :holmes:
Original post by gladders
Could you provide a link to an example of one of them using the NHS?


The Countess of Wessex had a baby at Frimley Park Hospital after an emergency c-section in 2003. So impressed was she that she made a point of having her second baby there in 2007.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/8/newsid_3724000/3724342.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7148830.stm
(edited 11 years ago)
I love how people are scrambling to justify it, it takes pressure off NHS, it would present a security risk. It's like slaves who love their chains.
Reply 43
Original post by faber niger
I think there are much more significant issues relating to the monarchy/aristocracy like the fact that "189,000 families [still] own two-thirds of the UK's 60 million acres, of which nearly three quarters is owned by the top 40,000." [source]

That's not true at all. Most surgeons who work in private hospitals also do work on the NHS (and are trained by the NHS, if not other health systems overseas), so you're generally getting exactly the same people. The general statistics [to my knowledge] don't show any health benefits of private healthcare, the benefits are speed and incidental "perks" (like paying to enter a special lounge at the airport).


Im sure anyone would go to a private hospital rather than the nhs if finance was not an issue.
Reply 44
Original post by sugar-n-spice
I love how people are scrambling to justify it, it takes pressure off NHS, it would present a security risk. It's like slaves who love their chains.


If anything, the slave analogy you used is more fitting to the fact that people are forced to pay for other people's healthcare.

If you can afford better than an average service, it should be your choice. It is no business of some left wing ponce whether you can or not.
Original post by sugar-n-spice
I love how people are scrambling to justify it, it takes pressure off NHS, it would present a security risk. It's like slaves who love their chains.


The Queen is famous and whatnot in her own right. When she's gone on to heaven, I'm not sure Royalty will last thereafter. I'm not sure Prince Philip or Prince Charles are as well-known or likeable or exude as much respect and fame as Her Majesty. Even when you type in "the Queen" in Google, it comes up with ours.

Having said that, I don't agree with people being honoured simply because they were born into a certain family - it is frankly outrageous in modern times; but it is justified by "Oh, but she brings in lots of tourism, money and helps relations".
Original post by MatureStudent36
So you want to be given more stuff yourself for doing nothing. Remember socialism only works when you're spending somebody else's money.
No, but I don't want most of our beautiful and arable land to be parcelled out to the descendants of conquering Norman aristos while most people struggle to get by in the cities (and, of course, had it not been for the Enclosures, there wouldn't be so many people in the cities in the first place). I don't think that in a rational world 11th-century battle and politics would play any significant role in modern land distribution and use.

A true capitalist (see Adam Smith's writings about this for example) would not be in favour of such gross inheritances; a true capitalist would want to see each individual rise or fall based on their own abilities in the marketplace, not riding on the coat-tails of their ancestors. A true capitalist would be a Whig, not a Tory.

Original post by yaboy
Im sure anyone would go to a private hospital rather than the nhs if finance was not an issue.
Maybe most people would (it's generally unwise to talk in absolutes of anyone and everything), but that wasn't the point I was arguing with, I was just saying that health outcomes would not be much of a rational basis for choice. :smile:
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
So you want to be given more stuff yourself for doing nothing. Remember socialism only works when you're spending somebody else's money.


Aren't Royalty wealthy and honoured by virtue of simply being born into a certain family?

I believe the Duke of Westminster, Hugh Grosvenor, 6th Duke, is a billionaire - simply by virtue of owning so much land (inherited by Royalty) and leasing it out an investing it and whatnot.

Whereas, others, like Lakshmi Mittal, British-Indian billionaire, had to work to become a billionaire.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Barksy
If anything, the slave analogy you used is more fitting to the fact that people are forced to pay for other people's healthcare.

If you can afford better than an average service, it should be your choice. It is no business of some left wing ponce whether you can or not.


LOL, the Queen gets her money from taxes but then the whole NHS is slavery is the sort of nonsense I would expect from somone with a picture of Reagan in his avatar.


Original post by HomoSapiensSap
The Queen is famous and whatnot in her own right. When she's gone on to heaven, I'm not sure Royalty will last thereafter. I'm not sure Prince Philip or Prince Charles are as well-known or likeable or exude as much respect and fame as Her Majesty. Even when you type in "the Queen" in Google, it comes up with ours.

Having said that, I don't agree with people being honoured simply because they were born into a certain family - it is frankly outrageous in modern times; but it is justified by "Oh, but she brings in lots of tourism, money and helps relations".


I contest the money claims since all the palaces exist independently of her and certainly I spit on the idea that she is a good ambassador since many of the countries Britain colonised are now the important ones and she's the biggest symbol of colonisation alive today. People will adore William and Harry like they adore her, they've been pushed as these 'ero's who fight for their country.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 49
Because the NHS is ****. They never claimed it was good and they have no political allegiance so why should they use it?
Original post by sugar-n-spice



I contest the money claims since all the palaces exist independently of her and certainly I spit on the idea that she is a good ambassador since many of the countries Britain colonised are now the important ones and she's the biggest symbol of colonisation alive today. People will adore William and Harry like they adore her, they've been pushed as these 'ero's who fight for their country.


I never said I agreed with those justifications. :no:

But they are, nevertheless the ones that are used. Still, I'm not quite sure British Royalty will survive after her death - can't really imagine William being King William or being as symbolic as the Queen for Brittania. I don't afford him much respect. Only the Queen still affords my light respect (light, that's all - for she was simply important by virtue of being born into a certain family).
Reply 51
Original post by sugar-n-spice
LOL, the Queen gets her money from taxes but then the whole NHS is slavery is the sort of nonsense I would expect from somone with a picture of Reagan in his avatar.


So the Queen choosing to use better healthcare is more worthy of slavery rhetoric than the state forcing me to pay for other people's treatment?

Left wing logic strikes again.
Original post by Barksy
So the Queen choosing to use better healthcare is more worthy of slavery rhetoric than the state forcing me to pay for other people's treatment?

Left wing logic strikes again.


You are also paying for your own treatments. You see, as a citizen in a civilized society, there are some duties and responsibilities owed by you to the State and your fellow citizen. Do you complain of paying for other people's schooling and education - which includes your own? Do you complain of paying for roads and infrastructure?
Reply 53
Original post by Barksy
So the Queen choosing to use better healthcare is more worthy of slavery rhetoric than the state forcing me to pay for other people's treatment?

Left wing logic strikes again.


You are a fan of Reagan yet you support the monarchy? Personally, I don't see how anyone who is right wing can support a monarchy.
Original post by Barksy
So the Queen choosing to use better healthcare is more worthy of slavery rhetoric than the state forcing me to pay for other people's treatment?

Left wing logic strikes again.
But doesn't the state also force you to pay for her treatment? :s-smilie:
Reply 55
Original post by HomoSapiensSap
You are also paying for your own treatments. You see, as a citizen in a civilized society, there are some duties and responsibilities owed by you to the State and your fellow citizen. Do you complain of paying for other people's schooling and education - which includes your own? Do you complain of paying for roads and infrastructure?


I was merely pointing out that the analogy used was inappropriate when looking at the context.

My major point is that we have a safety net; that doesn't mean people who can afford private provision should be restricted in doing so on the grounds of some vague notion of equality. There is a safety net in place. Don't force everyone to land in it.
Reply 56
Original post by 122025278
You are a fan of Reagan yet you support the monarchy? Personally, I don't see how anyone who is right wing can support a monarchy.


I never mentioned pro-Monarchy. My gripe is with people demonising those who wish to go private.
Original post by 122025278
You are a fan of Reagan yet you support the monarchy? Personally, I don't see how anyone who is right wing can support a monarchy.


You think that supporting the Monarchy is a left-wing thing??
Original post by Barksy
I was merely pointing out that the analogy used was inappropriate when looking at the context.

My major point is that we have a safety net; that doesn't mean people who can afford private provision should be restricted in doing so on the grounds of some vague notion of equality. There is a safety net in place. Don't force everyone to land in it.


I believe that the point is that Her Majesty is an important public figure. This isn't some random wealthy private citizen. If Mr Dyson (of Dyson hoovers) used private healthcare, I doubt there'll be much clamoring of "equality" and outrage and calls to force him to use the NHS. No, this is an important public figure that we are talking about - hence the discussion.
Reply 59
Original post by Barksy
I never mentioned pro-Monarchy. My gripe is with people demonising those who wish to go private.


My argument was never that people shouldn't go private, infact I think we should have system where everyone should have insurance and more personal responsibility, instead of the NHS picking up the tab for everyone and everything, but that's beside the point.

We're talking about public figures in public office and I'm not saying they should not go private, I'm saying I think it's unwise. If a premier league footballer wants to go private, I don't mind. If our Head of State wants to go private, I do mind. No one is forcing them to hold the office they hold, the Queen could resign tomorrow if she wanted to, she doesn't so there are some responsibilities.

If Charles when he becomes King, decides to install a massive hot tub in Buckingham Palace, take a private jet unnecessarly everywhere, have lunches flown in from Paris, host champagne parties every night there would be a public outcry, he would be in an office. If he wanted to do the same as a private citizen, I have no problem (although many probably would)

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