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Are "The Left" Dead Or Dying?

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Original post by Martyn*
The left are those who champion democracy, human rights, a welfare state, socialisation of industry, free speech and freedom, a general let live attitude, some curtailment of individual freedom.

The hard left want a fight with Capitalism - they are more Marxist and revolutionary, they are usually those of the oppressed and downtrodden. They champion the Socialism of the left but only as a means to revolution and the eventual overthrow of the Capitalist powers.

The right are those who believe that society is a game of winners and losers, strongly capitalistic, they generally have a cruel streak, generally male dominated, hardly any interest in the plight of the worker, bread-winner attitude, dull and insensitive, money-minded and driven by selfish interest.

The hard right want a fight with the hard left, they engage in propaganda, do not believe in human rights, extremely driven by self interest, power for its own sake, very male dominated, believes in breeding a certain biological type of human being, wants to dominate, hates any form of traditional Christianity, resurgence of the
Pagan revival, of the Roman empire at war.



You are unbelievably biased.
Original post by Martyn*
The legacy of the left lives on in many of today's politicians. Tony Blair introduced FOI (in the name of transparency), he championed the power of the internet, he introduced many social policies and anti-poverty measures. Blair was center-left. Thatcher was center-right, but she did introduce the right to buy as well as other social policies. What Thatcher did was crush the hard left; the nationalisers. Thatcher believed in the free market, and the power of the free market to regulate people's lives. She was a Socialist of the center-right. The further to the right we go the less Socialism there is, the more Fascism there is. Thatcher was not to the far right, she was not a Fascist, she belieevd in liberty. And there are many Conservative politicians (Cameron included) who are of the Socialist center-right. They think in the same vein as the center-left. What politicians have done is rejected the hard left and have seized the center ground, and they've been center-left and center-right. The Socialist left wing legacy lives on, and in many cases we are better for it.

Both the hard left and the hard right are powers which we should ensure never get into power, they are both dangerous, they are at war with one another and are only concerned with scoring points: the hard left, who have power in numbers and can hold the economy to ransom, want to hang the capitalists and the rich, and the hard right, who have the tools to lift people out of poverty, want to come down very hard on those they see as workers to be exploited.

The situation has improved but this power struggle between the hard left and the hard right can still be felt, sometimes it is felt in the left wing and right wing camps, because they fall somewhere on the wing scale. Politicians should be Socialist leaning, they should fall somewhere in the middle of the scale; they can be center-left or center-right. In my view and in terms of bettering the lives of everyone in society and not just the few, on that scale, the best position is the center-left because there is less scope for cruelty, and more social policies geared towards offering the majority a better quality of life. The more to the right we go or even the more to the left we go, there is less sanity.


I agree with you to some extent and I admire your analysis of Thatcher's role in the 80's; it's definitely one I haven't seen before and it makes good sense.

The problem with considering nationalisation as being automatically an indicator of hard-left ideology is that it really cuts down what center-left politics can do to create substantial change. Nationalisation of every industry regardless of economic circumstance is hard-left and should be discouraged; however nationalisation of markets/companies which even under regulation cannot be trusted to avoid tacit collusion or markets which are considered necessary to ensure the financial stability of the country/an area should be considered a significant last-resort but still center-left policy.

Speaking as a member of the Labour Party, I would argue that despite Blair's NMW, FOI and social policy, he was still a center-right politician like the majority of New Labour have been since the late 80's under Neil Kinnock; Gordon Brown was a minor swing back to the center-left but he was always (unfortunately) going to be a transitional Prime Minister. Their real change of ideology has been on liberty post 9/11 and 7/7; Labour have been fortunate to have introduced quite restrictive measures during a time where people were willing to accept a kneejerk reaction to an understandably tragic event.

Clause 4's removal was not a bad idea, but ideally it should have been replaced by a more pragmatic socialist commitment to nationalise in the interests of society and not because of pure fear of deregulated private markets. Instead, Labour accepted the effects of Thatcher's free market approach and tried to make small barriers to cushion the effects felt by those at the bottom. As we can see, they have either been stripped away or weren't all that effective to begin with. I would maintain that minus the Socialist Campaign Group and issues of societal importance (i.e. gay marriage/war), left-wing politics will continue to be of little relevance. I would *hope* that should Miliband become PM he would aim some of his first policies towards greater taxation and stronger regulation of certain markets. Then I might come back and say that we are seeing a rise of the left.
(edited 10 years ago)
Depends where you're talking about and what you mean by the left. If you mean the nominally centre-left established parties like Labour, the French Socialist Party, the German SPD, etc, in some places they're doing well and in some places they're doing badly.

OP says Merkel is expected to win in Germany next week, but this is complicated by Germany's PR electoral system and really depends on how you choose to look at it.

As for the less mainstream left, again it depends on where you look. In Spain they've seen a huge surge in the past year or so. In the Republic of Ireland, Sinn Fein have gone from a minor party to a major contender to win the next election. In Greece SYRIZA came within a whisker of winning the election last year and could well win the next one.

And for anyone who's still in doubt, just look at South America.

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