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Why don't flight data and cockpit recorders have GPS trackers?

Unless you've been living under a rock these past few days, there was a Malaysian Airlines flight that vanished off the radar mid-flight en route to Beijing with over 200 people on board. There's been absolutely no wreckage found including most importantly, the flight data and cockpit recorders.
These two recorders are extremely valuable when investigating any sort of incident that takes place on a plane.

So I was wondering, why don't they have GPS trackers on them?

Planes themselves are extremely high tech so what's the problem with shoving a simple GPS tracker on the recorders? I don't actually understand. Or am I missing something really important and there's a really legitimate and obvious answer that's just flown over my head?

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Reply 1
From watching many, many episodes of Air Crash Investigation, I can tell you that they definitely have some sort of tracking system, though I think it might just be a radio beacon.
Original post by qasidb
Unless you've been living under a rock these past few days, there was a Malaysian Airlines flight that vanished off the radar mid-flight en route to Beijing with over 200 people on board. There's been absolutely no wreckage found including most importantly, the flight data and cockpit recorders.
These two recorders are extremely valuable when investigating any sort of incident that takes place on a plane.

So I was wondering, why don't they have GPS trackers on them?

Planes themselves are extremely high tech so what's the problem with shoving a simple GPS tracker on the recorders? I don't actually understand. Or am I missing something really important and there's a really legitimate and obvious answer that's just flown over my head?


This whole thing just seems odd to me. I mean, how can a plane just disappear off the radar, and how come no-one noticed straight away? What happened to all the other tracking devices that should have been on the plane, with GPS being a key example? Why were no distress calls made, or even a 'crash' button hit if it was hijacked? :confused:


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If I remember correctly, GPS signals can't be transmitted through water. I may be wrong.
Original post by qasidb
Unless you've been living under a rock these past few days, there was a Malaysian Airlines flight that vanished off the radar mid-flight en route to Beijing with over 200 people on board. There's been absolutely no wreckage found including most importantly, the flight data and cockpit recorders.
These two recorders are extremely valuable when investigating any sort of incident that takes place on a plane.

So I was wondering, why don't they have GPS trackers on them?

Planes themselves are extremely high tech so what's the problem with shoving a simple GPS tracker on the recorders? I don't actually understand. Or am I missing something really important and there's a really legitimate and obvious answer that's just flown over my head?


Excellent pun.

To answer your question, I don't know.
Original post by spleenharvester
If I remember correctly, GPS signals can't be transmitted through water. I may be wrong.


That is a very good point. I know radar can't, so it would make sense for GPS not to be either given that they work in a similar way.

Edit: The more I think about this the more likely it becomes... If the black box is underwater, they won't pick it up unless there's another signal being emitted that's designed for these situations. It still doesn't explain the absence of alarm calls though.

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(edited 10 years ago)
They do. The Malaysia planes tracker just stopped transmitting at 35,000 feet.
Reply 7
Original post by spleenharvester
If I remember correctly, GPS signals can't be transmitted through water. I may be wrong.


That's probably true, but if the signal were transmitted over the internet then it would be able to record the approximate last position before it hit the water.

I think now that planes are starting to have internet connections it would make sense to be sending all black box data to a server somewhere else, so in the event of a crash the details are definitely accessible.
Reply 8
Original post by CJG21
Excellent pun.

To answer your question, I don't know.


That pun wasn't actually intended but I decided to keep it in anyway.
Reply 9
black boxes are fitted with radio beacons that can be picked up by radar.

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Reply 10
They do. If it spontanously stops transmitting, however, you end up with incidents like this.
Reply 11
GPS trackers could work but they wouldn't be useful because planes fly hundreds and thousands of miles so the GPS tracker probably had a limit if a few hundreds miles.

The flight recorders/ black boxes they actually have this signal which can be sensed by a detector from about 100-200 miles away. I don't think the investigators have even detected this yet as it would have shown up on the news report which is bad! :/

They haven't got much long left tbh as the black box only emits that radar signal for a couple of weeks :s


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Reply 12
Original post by furryface12
This whole thing just seems odd to me. I mean, how can a plane just disappear off the radar, and how come no-one noticed straight away? What happened to all the other tracking devices that should have been on the plane, with GPS being a key example? Why were no distress calls made, or even a 'crash' button hit if it was hijacked? :confused:


Posted from TSR Mobile


My guess is that some critical system (or systems) completely lost power so there was nothing to send a distress signal with. A user above mentioned the tracking thing stopped transmitting while at cruising altitude, which would fit with this. If they were over the sea then passenger's mobile phones probably wouldn't have signal.

Having said that, the engines should still remain running and the pilot should at least be able to control the plane should something like this happen, so this doesn't really everything.

My inclination is to suggest that it was an accident cause by mechanical or electrical failure rather than a hijacking.
GPS does not penetrate water (or more than a few feet of it anyway) so having a GPS tracker would be useless.

They can get radar beacons though but you have to be relatively close to pick the signals up (distance depends on frequency of wave used). This plane lost its signal fairly quickly so there's quite a large area it could have gone down in.
Reply 14
Its a guise for the malaysian version of "Lost"....

No on a serious note, whatever happened, must have been pretty damn fast since there was no sos or anything from the plane..
Original post by Manitude
My guess is that some critical system (or systems) completely lost power so there was nothing to send a distress signal with. A user above mentioned the tracking thing stopped transmitting while at cruising altitude, which would fit with this. If they were over the sea then passenger's mobile phones probably wouldn't have signal.

Having said that, the engines should still remain running and the pilot should at least be able to control the plane should something like this happen, so this doesn't really everything.

My inclination is to suggest that it was an accident cause by mechanical or electrical failure rather than a hijacking.


Yeah, that sounds fairly likely to me, too. As you say though, a good pilot should be able to keep going for a little bit without engines- the planes are designed to do so as much as possible! That could explain the turning back before the signal was lost, but still not the lack of wreckage as they have a pretty good idea of where the plane should have been at the time, sea currents etc.


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The plane's most likely at the bottom of the ocean by now.
Reply 17
They are actually finding parts.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b

This is from the aviation herald, which is basically run by pilots. They report even the simplest incidents, and it often has the newest info.
Reply 18
Original post by Liberalists
The plane's most likely at the bottom of the ocean by now.


But there are a lot of parts of the plane that float so they should still be floating around now.
Reply 19
Original post by furryface12
Yeah, that sounds fairly likely to me, too. As you say though, a good pilot should be able to keep going for a little bit without engines- the planes are designed to do so as much as possible! That could explain the turning back before the signal was lost, but still not the lack of wreckage as they have a pretty good idea of where the plane should have been at the time, sea currents etc.


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If the failure also caused rapid decompression of the cockpit then the pilot and copilot (and indeed, everyone else on board) would fall unconscious in a couple of minutes, so they'd be unable to control the plane.

This is of course, complete speculation. Maybe the pilots did their best to land the plane on water (hence the oil slick) without any instruments working but it wasn't enough. If the wing flaps were affected by a power outage and couldn't be extended to give more lift at lower speeds then the plane would be hitting the water at considerable speed. In that kind of situation I don't think the skill of the pilot has any bearing on the survival of the passengers.

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