should firms be allowed to choose their employees depending on whether they belong ..

Of course they should. They should be free to discriminate on any basis they like.

^^ sarcasm?

when working in a christian kindergarten or school that could play an important role.the employes have to stand behind the motives of the firm.
but employes of private companies who produce eg refrigerators do certainly need to follow the mission statement but not the religion of the firm,as it is not necessary when producing fridges.

Why can't they do this?

It's basic freedom of association. Companies should be free to hire and fire whoever they like and on whatever basis.

Reply 5

713

OP

2

numero sept

Why can't they do this?

It's basic freedom of association. Companies should be free to hire and fire whoever they like and on whatever basis.

Wouldn't that cause some inequality in the distribution of work when employes are required to belong to a special religion, which cannot be regarded as qualification and people who are less able to do a specified task might get the job because they believe in the religious concepts of the company? You're right,that would probably go into the direction of a planned economy,but i do believe that this is a barrier to entry.
And also if we're looking at the concept of flexible laubour movement,then it could appear that there were some difficulties for a sect member leaving that firm if it would like to.

Reply 6

kizer

^^ sarcasm?

Not at all. It's their business - if they want to discriminate and thus employ "inferior" people over a more qualified person on the basis of sexism or racism or whatever, it's their own business that's going to suffer. I'd say it's morally abhorrent, but they should be allowed to do it.

Reply 7

Howard

5

Interesting question. From where I am writing this, in the Mormon heartland, until very recently it was common practice for employment application forms to ask which LDS "ward" (sort of equivalent to a "parish" btw) you belonged to and if the answer was "none" then you might as well not bother applying. Newpaper advertisments for jobs until recently would state "Non LDS need not apply"

Under Gordon B Hinckley, the Latter Day Saint's current Prophet, the LDS has liberalized and become more accommodating but make no bones about it - what is decided by the Prophet and the Quorum of the Twelve is what is taught in the Temples and what is taught in the Temples on a Sunday is how life is going to be.

The word only needs to come from the Twelve that there are two many non-mormons getting involved in the local economy or government and things can become very difficult for non-mormons, excomunicants from the LDS, and "jack-mormons" alike.

(PS: In case anyone is wondering a "jack-mormon" is Utahn slang for a mormon that has taken himself off the church rolls and become apostate)

Reply 8

DanGrover

Not at all. It's their business - if they want to discriminate and thus employ "inferior" people over a more qualified person on the basis of sexism or racism or whatever, it's their own business that's going to suffer. I'd say it's morally abhorrent, but they should be allowed to do it.

The person who loses the job also suffers though! If a highly trained black man keeps losing out to less-suitable white men, he is the one who is sufferring the most, in the form of lost earnings! Why the focus just on the company?

Reply 9

Howard

5

kizer

The person who loses the job also suffers though! If a highly trained black man keeps losing out to less-suitable white men, he is the one who is sufferring the most, in the form of lost earnings! Why the focus just on the company?

No need to question your PC credentials I see.

Reply 10

kizer

The person who loses the job also suffers though! If a highly trained black man keeps losing out to less-suitable white men, he is the one who is sufferring the most, in the form of lost earnings! Why the focus just on the company?

Because they are the ones giving the job. They don't have to employ anyone, it's not like it's a 'right' to be employed by a private company. Yes, the black guy will suffer in the short term, but that's the great thing about capitalism - if the black guy really is the best, he'll find work. If not, he can start his won company, but the world doesn't owe him or anyone a living, and if I build up my own company I shouldn't be told who I can and can't employ in it.

Again, i'd like to reiterate that I would never do it myself, but I believe people should be allowed to. It has nothing to do with the government.

Reply 11

Howard

No need to question your PC credentials I see.

Aren't you the stereotypical anti-PC one for noticing my PC example?

I have just as big a problem with white candidates losing out due to 'affirmative action' programmes to black applicants. Or any other combination you can think of.

Reply 12

DanGrover

Yes, the black guy will suffer in the short term, but that's the great thing about capitalism - if the black guy really is the best, he'll find work. If not, he can start his won company, but the world doesn't owe him or anyone a living, and if I build up my own company I shouldn't be told who I can and can't employ in it..

What if no company will employ him, and no business will deal with his business? Because the world doesn't owe him a living, let him starve?

That's the whole point - racist business practices act against pure capitalism. And yes, the government should intervene if companies routinely hire worse candidates because of how they look.

Reply 13

Well I disagree entirely.

Reply 14

Howard

5

kizer

I have just as big a problem with white candidates losing out due to 'affirmative action' programmes to black applicants. Or any other combination you can think of.

Maybe you do. But we both know that you are a lot less likely to put the objects in a different order as in "If a highly trained white man keeps losing out to less-suitable black men......

Reply 15

Scienceboi

7

kizer

What if no company will employ him, and no business will deal with his business? Because the world doesn't owe him a living, let him starve?

That's the whole point - racist business practices act against pure capitalism. And yes, the government should intervene if companies routinely hire worse candidates because of how they look.

what are you suggesting? that black people can only get jobs because the government forces employers to take them on?

most employers are not intrinsicly racist, but it should definately be up to the company who they hire and for whatever reasons they choose.

Reply 16

Beekeeper

13

As Ayn Rand said: 'The smallest minority on earth is the individual'; In most cases, the best businessmen will be those who keep their companies and their potential market the most open. People should always be judged individually on what they can offer. Few people would turn away a genius because they have the wrong skin, or the wrong lifestyle- and even if they did, that person would be sure to hit back with everything they've got. If you took minorities out of New York it would cease to exist; the minority, the individual, is what has made capitalism such a success and what guarantees it's success into the future.

The individual will always triumph, no interference in neccessary.

Reply 17

Howard

Maybe you do. But we both know that you are a lot less likely to put the objects in a different order as in "If a highly trained white man keeps losing out to less-suitable black men......

You can assume what you want. I was disgusted to read about white men losing out to women and ethnic minorties in the police force just because they were white men. I gave one example - is it really that big a deal?

Reply 18

Scienceboi

what are you suggesting? that black people can only get jobs because the government forces employers to take them on?

most employers are not intrinsicly racist, but it should definately be up to the company who they hire and for whatever reasons they choose.

Have you actually read my posts?? :confused:

I definitely do not think that. But a lot of people on here appear to be fine with institutional racism, while I am trying to demonstrate why I think companies should hire the best man for the job.

Reply 19