Should private schools be banned?
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Original post by Octohedral
I agree on it reducing social mobility. I'm actually playing devil's advocate to a small extent - I've always found it odd that people correlate intelligence with deserving success, but it's a bit of a nihilistic way of looking at things.
I suppose I just don't like the idea of an individual set of parents not being able to give their child the best education they can (of course, in practical terms abolishing private schools wouldn't stop parents doing this).
Interestingly, I have a Polish friend who says that over there private schools are seen as places where 'troubled' students go, and the norm is the state system - someone may correct me here.
I suppose I just don't like the idea of an individual set of parents not being able to give their child the best education they can (of course, in practical terms abolishing private schools wouldn't stop parents doing this).
Interestingly, I have a Polish friend who says that over there private schools are seen as places where 'troubled' students go, and the norm is the state system - someone may correct me here.
I understand that you think it's unfair that parents wouldn't be able to give their child a high standard of education, but I still think that if standards of education were raised and extra tuition distributed on the basis of children's educational needs, it would make our society fairer in the long run.
I still think parents should be able to contribute to their children through inheritance, for example, but I think that as education is the means by which people can improve their lives, it's morally wrong to essentially make it a commodity.
Ok, rant over. I'll leave it there
of course not - economic inequality exists, just like other forms of inequality. get over it. tyrannical policies in exchange for synthetic equality is not a good trade off. the government should stay completely out of people's private transactions so long as it is causing no harm and keep it's fat nose out of innocent people's business. a reward of wealth is being able to afford better education. a benefit of wealth is being able to afford better health care. a perk of wealth is being able to afford more food and housing, etc. in terms of people buying private education, that is nobody's problem other than control freaks'.
(edited 9 years ago)
Some people need to accept that complete equality just isn't as important as some other things.
Equality is important, but why should it be put above things such as efficiency? If private schools are banned then the overall quality of education goes down and the standard of the future workforce is reduced. Just banning private schools will not magically raise the quality of state schools, they might get some better teachers but that is not always enough. Why is it that some people see a situation in which there is not complete equality and decide to magically fix it by making the better of parties worse off and doing basically nothing to the originally worse off parties.
Often equality can only be achieved by making things worse at which point you have to question is it worth it. If there is a policy which doesn't screw over the better off people for the sake of equality then it is worth doing but there doesn't seem to be such a policy.
Equality is important, but why should it be put above things such as efficiency? If private schools are banned then the overall quality of education goes down and the standard of the future workforce is reduced. Just banning private schools will not magically raise the quality of state schools, they might get some better teachers but that is not always enough. Why is it that some people see a situation in which there is not complete equality and decide to magically fix it by making the better of parties worse off and doing basically nothing to the originally worse off parties.
Often equality can only be achieved by making things worse at which point you have to question is it worth it. If there is a policy which doesn't screw over the better off people for the sake of equality then it is worth doing but there doesn't seem to be such a policy.
No, clean hard working people need to be protected from the louts.
Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not but they did ban private schools in Finland in the 1970s. This only caused an 'elite' within the state system to be created where all the rich people who wanted their kids to have the best opportunities moved to areas near the good schools, pushing the house prices up.
Not much difference to the private school system if you ask me- better off people have a higher chance of getting into the better schools and worse off people have a lower chance due to conveniency and what not.
Not much difference to the private school system if you ask me- better off people have a higher chance of getting into the better schools and worse off people have a lower chance due to conveniency and what not.
I think that the best thing to do follow the French education system- the CAPES exams for teachers, a very broad (but specialised) baccalaureate and government grants for people who choose to go on to higher education
private schoolsge nerally have beter facilities so its not particularly fair at all....
No. The standard of state schools should be improved.
Should kids be banned from going to good state schools? Banned from their parents hiring tutors? Fathers banned from helping out a kid with troubled homework as not all kids have fathers in the family? It's silly to force equality like that. Equality should be created through raising standards, not pulling them down.
Also, public schools, like public healthcare, provides a great service of reducing the stress on state schools.
Every student in a public school is a paid place in a standard school that isn't being used. Every cancer treatment in private clinics is one less the NHS has to fund - and it's probably been paid for twice over in by the person who's gone private.
Universities should take into account that one child may have gotten three A*s and was taught by Dr ThreeDegreesFromOxford with a class size of 10 and trips to the Swiss Museum of Everything, and another child with AAA went to a dump of a state school where their teacher didn't even turn up, the class was full of 35 students, half of whom have reading trouble and get thrown out after disrupting all the time, and most kids struggle to get 5 A-Cs at GCSE. I know which student I'd rather have.
Should kids be banned from going to good state schools? Banned from their parents hiring tutors? Fathers banned from helping out a kid with troubled homework as not all kids have fathers in the family? It's silly to force equality like that. Equality should be created through raising standards, not pulling them down.
Also, public schools, like public healthcare, provides a great service of reducing the stress on state schools.
Every student in a public school is a paid place in a standard school that isn't being used. Every cancer treatment in private clinics is one less the NHS has to fund - and it's probably been paid for twice over in by the person who's gone private.
Universities should take into account that one child may have gotten three A*s and was taught by Dr ThreeDegreesFromOxford with a class size of 10 and trips to the Swiss Museum of Everything, and another child with AAA went to a dump of a state school where their teacher didn't even turn up, the class was full of 35 students, half of whom have reading trouble and get thrown out after disrupting all the time, and most kids struggle to get 5 A-Cs at GCSE. I know which student I'd rather have.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by arfah
I personally think they should be banned. It is unfair that everyone does not get the same education, and people are practically buying their/ child's education.
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
Life isn't fair.
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Original post by arfah
I personally think they should be banned. It is unfair that everyone does not get the same education, and people are practically buying their/ child's education.
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
"UNFAIR"
That's life, sister.
Wouldn't it be better to improve the standard of state schools, so that private schools are no longer needed? Or maybe lower the costs of private schools so gifted children from a poor background can get in? Although there are bursaries and scholarships for that...
Original post by arfah
I personally think they should be banned. It is unfair that everyone does not get the same education, and people are practically buying their/ child's education.
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
I wonder what everyone else's view is on this?
I disagree, I think private schools are misunderstood and should be thrived upon. Although they adhere to a kind of snobbish persona and culture, many enroll their children into private schools not because of the quality of education per se, but rather for its environment. Many who enroll their children into private school education are those which include businesspersons, lawyers, doctors and highly qualified professionals who wish to immerse their children in a upper-middle class environment to hobnob and network with other children as a way of 'networking'. Not only is it for parents personal gain, but also to improve their children's interpersonal skills and easily accessible extra-curricular activities that would otherwise not be available from comprehensive schools (i.e. Sailing, fencing, Golf and the alike). As the old saying goes - water seeks it own level.
In addition, its the working-class populations (the majority) which hate private schools because of its history, heritage and background. However, what many fail to realize is that private schools are not intended to separate those 'who do have and those who have not's' but rather improve their children's chances of success and to meet the right people in a new and highly competitive world. As they say, its not what you know - its who you know and how you know them. There's no envy in that.
They should improve the standards of state schools so that "going private" isn't the equivalent of sending your child to a far better school.
Original post by It'sIrrelevant
I think they should be banned. They give an unfair advantage to children- people born into different families but who are of equal intelligence will never have the same opportunities in life. The child from the wealthier family is guaranteed to have more opportunities not because of something they have done but because of how much their parents can afford to spend on educating them.
It would be much better to have state-controlled middle schools (places distributed based on where you live) followed by high schools (places gained through an academic selection process).
It would be much better to have state-controlled middle schools (places distributed based on where you live) followed by high schools (places gained through an academic selection process).
Original post by mazigh
That's a large misrepresentation of socialism. (Also, that picture looks like it came out of a CGP revision guide. I loved their jokes)
No, because the well heeled kids need to be isolated from the working class ones for their own protection. A lot of parents turf them in with the yobbos in the state sector thinking they are being egalitarian but all that happens is the tradesmens offspring will taunt them about other facets of their background like their address or accent. We need these cults to continue; seperation of the classes is common sense really, stick to your own kind. I mean, most people on here would be ridiculed utterly if they tried to work on a building site on Tyneside or something, so its fairly reasonable to stop the inbreds contaminating higher education.
Private schools are back in the public eye as Alan Bennett has launched an attack on their legitimacy in The Guardian.
"Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who pay for it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, or should. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.
"My objection to private education is simply put. It is not fair. And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair, but no government, whatever its complexion, has dared to tackle private education."
Bennett's solution? Not a "particularly leftwing" or "revolutionary" one, he says, suggesting "gradual reform" starting "with the amalgamation of state and public schools at sixth-form level" - a "feasible" step forward
"Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who pay for it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, or should. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.
"My objection to private education is simply put. It is not fair. And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair, but no government, whatever its complexion, has dared to tackle private education."
Bennett's solution? Not a "particularly leftwing" or "revolutionary" one, he says, suggesting "gradual reform" starting "with the amalgamation of state and public schools at sixth-form level" - a "feasible" step forward
Original post by Numberwang
Private schools are back in the public eye as Alan Bennett has launched an attack on their legitimacy in The Guardian.
"Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who pay for it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, or should. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.
"My objection to private education is simply put. It is not fair. And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair, but no government, whatever its complexion, has dared to tackle private education."
Bennett's solution? Not a "particularly leftwing" or "revolutionary" one, he says, suggesting "gradual reform" starting "with the amalgamation of state and public schools at sixth-form level" - a "feasible" step forward
"Private education is not fair. Those who provide it know it. Those who pay for it know it. Those who have to sacrifice in order to purchase it know it. And those who receive it know it, or should. And if their education ends without it dawning on them, then that education has been wasted.
"My objection to private education is simply put. It is not fair. And to say that nothing is fair is not an answer. Governments, even this one, exist to make the nation's circumstances more fair, but no government, whatever its complexion, has dared to tackle private education."
Bennett's solution? Not a "particularly leftwing" or "revolutionary" one, he says, suggesting "gradual reform" starting "with the amalgamation of state and public schools at sixth-form level" - a "feasible" step forward
Glad someone picked this up... but the full thing is available online rather than just the soundbites http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n12/alan-bennett/fair-play
Here's the counter argument from a headmaster of an independent school in Solihull.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/alan-bennett-is-wrong--its-state-schools-that-need-to-change-not-private-schools-9549748.html
I agree with Bennett though
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/alan-bennett-is-wrong--its-state-schools-that-need-to-change-not-private-schools-9549748.html
I agree with Bennett though
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