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TSR Christian Apologetics Society

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Reply 380
I agree that because Islam has a similar philosophy and ethics to Christianity (or so I've been told by Muslims, you will always find those who say 'oh muslims believe in war and so on'), so it would be easier to convert.

My personal view on Muslims is the same as my view on Chrstians. In every way. Fair enough, but remember that it is impossible to be the direct word of God, because whether a christian prophet or Muhammed (PBUH), the message went through Man. So take into account the time in which it was written, and the human factor, and so don't take it to extremes. Other than that, I have no problems with religion. It won't do much wrong, and it has the potential to do a lot of good in someones life, whether there is a god or no.
-hybrid-
Who cares about arguments for the sake of arguing, I'm talking about reaching the truth. You don't care about saving people's souls?

I care alot about peoples' souls, but I know that I.. a human.. cannot save them. Only God can act in in another person's spirit to bring revelation, and if I try and enforce it by 'preaching' (apart from when God prompts me to do so) then often I counteract what God is trying to do as opposed to encouraging it.. see what I mean? :s-smilie:
Reply 382
Craghyrax
I care alot about peoples' souls, but I know that I.. a human.. cannot save them. Only God can actin in another person's spirit to bring revelation, and if I try and enforce it by 'preaching' (apart from when God prompts me to do so) then often I counteract what God is trying to do as opposed to encouraging it.. see what I mean? :s-smilie:


I agree, in todays society, more harm than good is done by converting, it's often a better idea to preach by example.
This is another reason not to take scripture to extremes :wink:

There is always a danger of not listening to God, and just assuming "this is what christians do, this is what the Bible says, this is what i'm going to do". While that works in some cases, in others, including converting, it does not.
Yup :biggrin:
Reply 384
Craghyrax
Yup :biggrin:


Glad we agree :smile:
ukebert
Glad we agree :smile:

Lol yeh.. esp if we end up in the same place! :confused:
Reply 386
Craghyrax
Only God can act in in another person's spirit to bring revelation, and if I try and enforce it by 'preaching' (apart from when God prompts me to do so) then often I counteract what God is trying to do as opposed to encouraging it.. see what I mean? :s-smilie:

I had an interesting discussion with someone, who said that whatever we did, it would still benefit them in some way.
I was talking about the kind of christians who gather on the side of a road, preaching death and destruction to all who do not accept Jesu..... etc etc. and that they push a huge amount of people away from them. Only a minute %age of the people the affect will be helped in any way. Now of course it's a good thing that those people are helped, but the majority of people will build up walls against christians based on such experiences, thus making it harder to reach them.
The other person took the view that everything we do can be used for the good of God, regardless of how we think things work out. . . So we should always be ready to talk about our faith, and not wait until we feel that "God is prompting us".

ukebert has a good point, and it's the way I try to follow: lead by example. If had quite a few friends start talking about things that wouldn't be able to be brought up if I were 'preaching' to them. The best and most useful converstaions take place 'naturally'.
Sir Esh
The other person took the view that everything we do can be used for the good of God, regardless of how we think things work out. . . So we should always be ready to talk about our faith, and not wait until we feel that "God is prompting us".

I agree with this point, especially as its God who works in peoples' hearts not ourselves. We should definitely be ready to witness to what we believe, but we must strive to be sensitive to when the Holy Spirit is prompting us to do so!
I think my main hesitation is towards trying to argue Christianity on a purely intellectual level. This leads to trying to gather up all sorts of evidence, facts and arguments, and getting caught up in proving oneself right. This isn't reflective of a Godly attitude, and it is completely useless when another person has made up their mind. Such discussions aren't going to bring a change in someone's heart unless they are open.


Sir Esh

ukebert has a good point, and it's the way I try to follow: lead by example. If had quite a few friends start talking about things that wouldn't be able to be brought up if I were 'preaching' to them. The best and most useful converstaions take place 'naturally'.

Yes definitely!
Reply 388
Sir Esh
ukebert has a good point, and it's the way I try to follow: lead by example. If had quite a few friends start talking about things that wouldn't be able to be brought up if I were 'preaching' to them. The best and most useful converstaions take place 'naturally'.


Thanks :smile:

Congratulations on your fantasy book thing in your sig by the way.
I'm gonna buy that book! :king1:

How's ukebert today? :biggrin:
Dyakson
Pardon me for butting in... I'm a generic Christian generally found around low Anglican-style churches. I'm not interested very much about statues or capitalisation or what colour shirt your church leader wears to conduct the service, by the way!
God controls the time you die, so don't worry about being hit by a bus on the way to baptism! God has a sense of humour but he certainly isn't malicious. But don't put off commitment any longer than necessary - it's like marriage. You need to be certain you're doing the right thing but once you're sure, you don't want to drag your feet!

(Regarding baptism and confessions generally, I believe that it is Jesus who saves us, not the formalities of how we approach him - besides, he's gone to an awful lot of trouble to let you come to God, he's physically present via the Holy Spirit, if you're doing something wrong he WILL let you know.)

As for sex outside of marriage, I think it is harmful to you and those around you, so it draws you away from God, and that's pretty much what sin is as I understand it. I don't know why it should be regarded differently to any other sin. I was thinking a lot about this last week, actually - IMO, sex is only worthwhile if it's with someone you adore and can't bear to live life without, who feels the same about you, to the extent that you've formally committed to share the rest of your lives together. Anything other is shallow and pointless, and just downright out of place by comparison.


Im not so sure He controls when you die...specifically. Thats really interesting actually...because if someone had a tumour, and you dont pray for them and they die then they die say 1st jan. But if you do pray for them and the tumour goes then they live a whole much longer. So i dont know
*Stargirl*
Im not so sure He controls when you die...specifically. Thats really interesting actually...because if someone had a tumour, and you dont pray for them and they die then they die say 1st jan. But if you do pray for them and the tumour goes then they live a whole much longer. So i dont know

I guess its down to how you interperet what the bible says, isn't it? Its one of those details that different christians from different denominations might have different views on :s-smilie: I think God is in control but can be persuaded to change, or alter something if we ask him. The bible often gives examples where God changed a plan in response to a request or prayer. This is true now.
Reply 392
Craghyrax
How's ukebert today? :biggrin:


Fine thanks!
Reply 393
ukebert
Thanks :smile:

Congratulations on your fantasy book thing in your sig by the way.

Why thank you :biggrin: We're working on the second one now ^.^

Does anyone have any good ideas of questions that we could have as titles to the equivalent of our CU thing? Something that will spark a real, interesting (and interested) talk/debate/discussion. Aimed more at sixth-formers. thanks
Sir Esh
Does anyone have any good ideas of questions that we could have as titles to the equivalent of our CU thing? Something that will spark a real, interesting (and interested) talk/debate/discussion. Aimed more at sixth-formers. thanks

Anything to do with sex before marriage.. differences in different religions...homosexuality.. science and christianity...

Any good?
And :hello: btw...
Sir Esh
Does anyone have any good ideas of questions that we could have as titles to the equivalent of our CU thing? Something that will spark a real, interesting (and interested) talk/debate/discussion. Aimed more at sixth-formers. thanks


How about:

The theory of evolution: destructive to christian faith, or perfectly compative with it?

Giving: As christians living in a rich world how much should we give?
(make points like: the only person jesus ever comended the giving of was a woman who gave everything; however if we do not fit into the culture of today [i.e. by having ther latest gaming console/fashion item] how will we be relavent evangelists?)

Sex and relationships (always a fun one, and a dark horse for the best questions!): As christians what do we beleive about sex? is it best keep for marriage, or should we embrace our liberal society and go as far as we please?

I've drawn a mental blank, but i'm sure you could find others on a website of somesort. I hope the above are helpful!

do be careful with debating though: it can really destroy some poeples faith. make sure theres some good biblical imput (maybe at the end?)
That giving idea is really something I'm working on myself. Should Christians leave all and help the poor? Should we care about fashion and degrees? How far are we expected to go to serve Jesus.
Does anyone who is Christian have an answer?
The general idea is it doesn't matter how much you do, what matters is how much love you put into doing it. But in the NT the trend does seem to be that you should give all up and help....
I wish I could understand what to do! I think it's our ultimate challenge
*Stargirl*
That giving idea is really something I'm working on myself. Should Christians leave all and help the poor? Should we care about fashion and degrees? How far are we expected to go to serve Jesus.
Does anyone who is Christian have an answer?
The general idea is it doesn't matter how much you do, what matters is how much love you put into doing it. But in the NT the trend does seem to be that you should give all up and help....
I wish I could understand what to do! I think it's our ultimate challenge


Why should that apply to just christians?
Ideally nobody would give a s*** about fashion and all should help those less well off than them imho.
A moral duty rather than a religious one.

(Sorry for voicing my opinion, I know you asked for a christian response.)
Reply 398
BenThackray
Why should that apply to just christians?
Ideally nobody would give a s*** about fashion and all should help those less well off than them imho.
A moral duty rather than a religious one.

(Sorry for voicing my opinion, I know you asked for a christian response.)


*stargirl* was not implying that her suggestions for discussion were only applicable to Christians.

The member who sought suggestions wanted the questions from a Christian perspective that emulated the type of debate at his uni CU (Christian Union)

Your point that helping those less well off than oneself is a moral duty is valid in in other circumstances, but we were restricted to what Christians see as their duty by dint of the request made to us.

I'm not side-lining you for the sake of it - you have done that yourself by not being a Christian! :biggrin:

You could always become a Christian and join our club...
Well the difference is you would be doing it purely for moral reasons, whilst we would be also mainly doing it for Jesus. Of course we know it is morally right to do that, but we would do it for Jesus.
Yeah I would love responses to this! So many times I feel like I should just walk out my lessons and help the poor and the unloved...but knowing what God has planned for you is sometimes difficult to pinpoint exactly.

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