TSR Christian Apologetics Society

PabloCV

Just been accepted, thanks!

To be able to devote themselves completely to God. The same happens with RC religious women (I don't know the English word for "monja", female monk).

Bye!

How can a priest who has never experienced marriage or bringing up children be able to give advice to his congregation on such domestic issues as he is not in a qualified position to do so??

I honestly don't understand that..within Judaism for example, Rabbis for a congregation are always married and for preference have a family..so they can relate and understand the varying predicaments undergone by their members.

Reply 62

PabloCV

How can a priest who has never experienced marriage or bringing up children be able to give advice to his congregation on such domestic issues as he is not in a qualified position to do so??

What type of advice should he give? Usually a priest gives spiritual advice, probably more related to God, to morals, that kind of stuff... Perhaps (just guessing here) marrying would help him give advice on such domestic issues but bring problems regarding spiritual issues, that is, he wouldn't be close enough to God in order to give the right advice regarding spiritual life.

Reply 63

Helzerel

How can a priest who has never experienced marriage or bringing up children be able to give advice to his congregation on such domestic issues as he is not in a qualified position to do so??

A priest is a minister of word and sacrament, not a social worker or marriage guidance counsellor. It's not really his job to give advice on domestic issues other than in extremely minor ways. A priest ought to be concentrating his efforts on matters spiritual.

Reply 64

Howard

A priest is a minister of word and sacrament, not a social worker or marriage guidance counsellor. It's not really his job to give advice on domestic issues other than in extremely minor ways. A priest ought to be concentrating his efforts on matters spiritual.

Throughout time, as history has progressed the role of the priest has developed in accordance with that - from being the most powerful figure in the village, whose every word is feared to that of "a friend and advisor in the eyes of his fellow men instead of a leader or a person of high authority as in the past." (Quote taken from http://library.thinkquest.org/C004203/social/social02.htm)

Additionally, many people do go to their priest for help, looking up to the leader of their congregation for direction. How can a 'lost sheep' suffering from spiritual deprivation due to varying domestic matters be truly understood or helped by someone completely unable to fathom their plight?

Howard - It can be read from your post above that a priest's role within the congregation is one of detachment..helping the people find their spiritual connection with the Church and Jesus - but I genuinely don't understand how this can fulfilled when there is such a gap, a barrier separating the priest from his people.

Reply 65

yawn

17

Helzerel

Throughout time, as history has progressed the role of the priest has developed in accordance with that - from being the most powerful figure in the village, whose every word is feared to that of "a friend and advisor in the eyes of his fellow men instead of a leader or a person of high authority as in the past." (Quote taken from http://library.thinkquest.org/C004203/social/social02.htm)

Additionally, many people do go to their priest for help, looking up to the leader of their congregation for direction. How can a 'lost sheep' suffering from spiritual deprivation due to varying domestic matters be truly understood or helped by someone completely unable to fathom their plight?

Howard - It can be read from your post above that a priest's role within the congregation is one of detachment..helping the people find their spiritual connection with the Church and Jesus - but I genuinely don't understand how this can fulfilled when there is such a gap, a barrier separating the priest from his people.

Counsellors give people professional guidance on all manner of personal problems. There is not a need to have experienced all that the counselled have suffered to provide that counsel - indeed many of them will not have.

The key is 'empathy' - I can empathise with someone who has lost a child to say, leukaemia without having gone through the same loss myself.

Look at Mother Theresa. She cared for and loved 'the unloveable' - she gave them both physical and emotional comfort without having been an 'unloveable' herself.

How can a priest understand the problems of his married congregation? He has more experience than most of what those problems are since he hears of them from the deepest depths of a person's heart during Confession! I would not have had any appreciation of the enormous problems that asylum seekers suffer if my priest had not involved me in helping them. He had far more supportive skills than I did, since he was much closer to their problems than I.

Remember that Christ Himself was able to offer both practical and emotional support to many people, including the dispossessed, the outcasts, the sick, the immoral, the father, the mother, the husband and the wife without being any of these things Himself.

Reply 66

Agent Smith

11

NathanL

DING DING DING give the man a puppy!!! :biggrin:

In fact, one could argue that His humanity wasn't made 'complete' or 'restored' until the Resurrection, but meh.

The profound truth of the incarnation is that Jesus' humanity was just like ours. Smith, you're right, it isn't a Jekyll and Hyde scenario, but it is rather a wholistic one. At once in the Garden, Jesus showed human and divine traits - He said "Take this cup away from me [and this is the bit some don't like to quote] but not my will, but your will be done!"

At once, perfect obedience and at once perfect (i.e. imperfect) humanity.

Nathan :smile:

So if Jesus' humanity was "perfect" in the sense of being authentic and thus imperfect, which I still think is a contentious statement, why didn't it have more major effects than simply that momentary wavering in Gethsemane? Why didn't it lead to outright sin? And if you argue that it was "kept in check" by His divinity then you've come back to Jekyll and Hyde.

Reply 67

Helzerel

Howard - It can be read from your post above that a priest's role within the congregation is one of detachment..helping the people find their spiritual connection with the Church and Jesus - but I genuinely don't understand how this can fulfilled when there is such a gap, a barrier separating the priest from his people.

It's not a matter of detachment; it's a matter of allowing the priest to concentrate on doing the things that no-one else can do, that is to say, perform the sacramental ministry.

Reply 68

NathanL

OP

13

How about Jesus going to the toilet, Jesus dying, Jesus crying, Jesus being involved in society and culture, Jesus talking, Jesus being born? Are these not true signs of humanity?

The phrase "wood for the trees" comes to mind lol :biggrin:

And it's not Jekyll and Hyde if indeed His humanity and Divinity were complete and wholistic - one must take them both completely and not individually, they are not separable. That would work with the passage in question, you have at once humanity and at once obedience.

Nathan :smile:

Edit - Also, 'humanity' which is vulnerable does not necessarily equate 'sinfulness'.

Reply 69

krib!

Christmas is a pagan festival which the church stole. Prove me otherwise

Reply 70

philjw

13

krib!

Christmas is a pagan festival which the church stole. Prove me otherwise

I'm not sure how one goes about "stealing" a festival - but the celebration of Jesus taking on flesh and being born is authentically Christian. That is the important, core aspect of Christmas for most believers. The wrapping, tinsel, trees and fluff may well be adopted from earlier pagan events - but if at Christmas a Christian is celebrating Jesus Christ then what they are not doing is worshipping nature as pagans do.

Reply 71

yawn

The key is 'empathy' - I can empathise with someone who has lost a child to say, leukaemia without having gone through the same loss myself....

...Remember that Christ Himself was able to offer both practical and emotional support to many people, including the dispossessed, the outcasts, the sick, the immoral, the father, the mother, the husband and the wife without being any of these things Himself.

Don't like the latter paragraph at all. You believe that Christ was the 'Son' of God, was resurrected, did miracles i.e. not your average bloke. A priest, however spiritual or holy they may be will never attain the same level or connection both with God and the people that Jesus did.

Empathy..ok then.

Howard

It's not a matter of detachment; it's a matter of allowing the priest to concentrate on doing the things that no-one else can do, that is to say, perform the sacramental ministry.

...as a result of which they can spend less time 'empathising.' But ok, I get what you're saying - assuming that the priest's role is as you defined and is strictly carried out in such a manner then it'd be fine, but not if he was more. S'cool.

Reply 72

NathanL

OP

13

There has been a study which indicates that celebrating the Winter Solstice within the Roman Empire, in the way we would understand Christmas to be akin to, did not properly arise until after Christians began commemorating the birth of Christ.

But of course, in ancient custom 'copying' aesthetics and holding a festival at the same time as another was a viable form of 'religious competition'.

There's no reason to suggest that Christmas in the true Christian sense of it (e.g. remembering the birth of Christ) is pagan - but if indeed the 'trimmings' were copied in order to 'combat' paganism, the question has to be, so what? There's nothing of Christmas (other than the birth narratives, obviously) in the NT.

A religious festival is defined by its meaning and symbolism - and it's true now at least that Christmas is about the coming of Jesus. The Christian story adds new life and fresh tradition to diverse pagan customs. I don't have a problem with it!

Nathan :smile:

Reply 73

yawn

17

Helzerel

A priest, however spiritual or holy they may be will never attain the same level or connection both with God and the people that Jesus did.

Nor could any minister of any faith group, whether priest, vicar, imam, rabbi...

Reply 74

yawn

Nor could any minister of any faith group, whether priest, vicar, imam, rabbi...

Never said that they could.

You insinuated in your earlier post that because Jesus was "able to offer both practical and emotional support to many people ... without being any of these things Himself" so too are priests.

Reply 75

Helzerel

.........as a result of which they can spend less time 'empathising.' But ok, I get what you're saying - assuming that the priest's role is as you defined and is strictly carried out in such a manner then it'd be fine, but not if he was more. S'cool.

And as I say - its not really a priest's primary function to emphasise. More power to him if he can - that's great - but that's not really what being a priest is all about; not in the orthodox catholic meaning of the word priest anyway.

Reply 76

crazygirl4521

14

I haved just joined i am here to represent my religon.

Reply 77

maze.e

I haved just joined i am here to represent my religon.

Go on then.

Reply 78