The 19 year old pedophile who has never gone near a child- Interesting podcast
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Original post by alis-volatpropriis
I'm dense because I think having feelings for adults and have feelings for children are two different things. I know that both cannot control what they are attracted to, but at least homosexuals can have thoughts and urges that are considered normal and legal. They can only act out their urges without being prosecuted.
Ok. So we might as well add pedophile to the consensus.
If you have read the thread so far, you would see that some people have said that having such thoughts is OK. That was my issue! whether they act on them or not, it is still disgusting and should be condemned. It should not be encouraged. This thread has turned into a pedophile sympathising thread.. oh poor man with urges and thoughts you cannot act out. not you should get help or why isn't there a mental health service for such people.
We've even had Red One say there is nothing wrong with thinking that way and that it doesn't need to be treated. She/he even went as far to call me prejudiced and discriminatory because I would not allow children to be taught by self-confessed non-active pedophiles. All pedophiles were no active at one point. Its just tempting them.
Ok. So we might as well add pedophile to the consensus.
If you have read the thread so far, you would see that some people have said that having such thoughts is OK. That was my issue! whether they act on them or not, it is still disgusting and should be condemned. It should not be encouraged. This thread has turned into a pedophile sympathising thread.. oh poor man with urges and thoughts you cannot act out. not you should get help or why isn't there a mental health service for such people.
We've even had Red One say there is nothing wrong with thinking that way and that it doesn't need to be treated. She/he even went as far to call me prejudiced and discriminatory because I would not allow children to be taught by self-confessed non-active pedophiles. All pedophiles were no active at one point. Its just tempting them.
Okay well i'll try to make this short since i feel like we're just going in circles here.
People WERE saying it's bad that there's no mental help on offer - maybe you missed it. Plently of people on this thread have commended the guy for going to get help and do think some kind of mental therapy/support would be good for people with those urges.
You were saying before - when i called you dense - there there is absolutely no similarities with homosexuality and pedophilia. There is: Both are caused by feelings and urges they cannot control. This does not mean pedophilia is right or should be made legal like homosexuality because as you said consent is a major factor.
And yes we are sympathising with pedophiles - because some of them are good people that have never laid a finger on a child and hate themselves because of something they were born with and did not want and there are people who are saying they should be shot anyway, that's why people are sympathising.
And you keep bringing up some of Red Ones views but those are her views so i'm not sure why you're bringing them up in this conversation with me - but i do agree some of her points are dodgy.
I think i've covered everything I hope someday you can get over your trauma - well as much as possibly anyway - and that one day you might be able to view this topic objectively and realise that pedophiles can be victims too. Night
Original post by TK2 King Pin
Aside from 'demonizing' sufferers of pedophilia, how would you suggest they're dealt with?
Mental health treatment, there should be services dedicated to people like that.
Original post by alis-volatpropriis
Mental health treatment, there should be services dedicated to people like that.
Well, I think a sympathetic attitude would encourage them to step forth and accept such treatment. Demonizing them would only make them feel more isolated and reluctant to admit their problem.
Your adamance that pedophilic thoughts are 'not OK' is completely agreeable.
The idea that they should not be allowed to teach in schools is also agreeable.
I think where people have been disagreeing with you is when you imply they are in the wrong for having such thoughts.
If it was regarded as wrong, sick, evil to feel attracted towards women, I would feel hard done by that I am inescapably hardwired to like women. I may wish I wasn't, but I can't imagine deciding to not like women.
I'm even skeptical that mental health treatment would effectively quash the attraction. Red One's suggestion of cartoon pornography may not be as mad as it sounds as a temporary solution (it would discourage the filming of actual children).
This is why I feel that non-offending pedophiles deserve sympathy, and should certainly not be scorned upon.
Original post by TK2 King Pin
Well, I think a sympathetic attitude would encourage them to step forth and accept such treatment. Demonizing them would only make them feel more isolated and reluctant to admit their problem.
Your adamance that pedophilic thoughts are 'not OK' is completely agreeable.
The idea that they should not be allowed to teach in schools is also agreeable.
I think where people have been disagreeing with you is when you imply they are in the wrong for having such thoughts.
If it was regarded as wrong, sick, evil to feel attracted towards women, I would feel hard done by that I am inescapably hardwired to like women. I may wish I wasn't, but I can't imagine deciding to not like women.
I'm even skeptical that mental health treatment would effectively quash the attraction. Red One's suggestion of cartoon pornography may not be as mad as it sounds as a temporary solution (it would discourage the filming of actual children).
This is why I feel that non-offending pedophiles deserve sympathy, and should certainly not be scorned upon.
Your adamance that pedophilic thoughts are 'not OK' is completely agreeable.
The idea that they should not be allowed to teach in schools is also agreeable.
I think where people have been disagreeing with you is when you imply they are in the wrong for having such thoughts.
If it was regarded as wrong, sick, evil to feel attracted towards women, I would feel hard done by that I am inescapably hardwired to like women. I may wish I wasn't, but I can't imagine deciding to not like women.
I'm even skeptical that mental health treatment would effectively quash the attraction. Red One's suggestion of cartoon pornography may not be as mad as it sounds as a temporary solution (it would discourage the filming of actual children).
This is why I feel that non-offending pedophiles deserve sympathy, and should certainly not be scorned upon.
You can be objective I cannot. People that had 'wrong' thoughts were told it was 'fine' by my relatives and then they acted upon it.
I cannot sympathise with someone like that, I've been victimised by people like him that appeared "good" because they didn't initially act on their "urges"
I see pedophilia as a mental illness, there is no one cure of any mental illness. It is just something that can be treated and managed. I think it would be helpful if the NHS implemented a service like that for the public and also within prison for prosecuted pedophiles.
But the difference with your hypothetical situation is that, you could legally act upon your urges. Its like homosexuals, they may be perceived by certain groups of people as 'wrong' but legally what they chose to do with their partners is not illegal and in my opinion is not immoral. But my point is to have thoughts about children whether you can control it or not is wrong . They may be reluctant to admit they have such feelings, but at least they would be less likely to act upon them because of the stigma that they would receive.
If you sympathise with pedophiles, and mollycoddle them tell them "oh its not your fault, you can think about your young cousin, sister, brother, next door neighbour in a sexual way as long as you don't act upon it is fine'. It will end up with people trying to argue that acting upon those thoughts and feelings causes no harm since thinking about it is ok.
We had the pedophile sympathisers in the government years ago, and now we have this on TSR. Its just giving anyone reading this encouragement. Especially the introduction of any cartoon childrens pornography thats just justifying and rationalising as right.
Eventually people get tired of watching material and having thoughts, if you can encourage them to think and watch said material they will eventually facilitate those urges.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by alis-volatpropriis
You can be objective I cannot. People that had 'wrong' thoughts were told it was 'fine' by my relatives and then they acted upon it.
I cannot sympathise with someone like that, I've been victimised by people like him that appeared "good" because they didn't initially act on their "urges"
I cannot sympathise with someone like that, I've been victimised by people like him that appeared "good" because they didn't initially act on their "urges"
That's sad to hear, though 'sympathizing' and saying it's 'fine' are different things. They should be aware people support them, and they should be treated, and discouraged from offending.
Original post by alis-volatpropriis
But the difference with your hypothetical situation is that, you could legally act upon your urges. Its like homosexuals, they may be perceived by certain groups of people as 'wrong' but legally what they chose to do with their partners is not illegal and in my opinion is not immoral.
My hypothetical situation was intended to mirror the situation of pedophiles, including the legal repercussions of acting on their impulses.
Original post by alis-volatpropriis
But my point is to have thoughts about children whether you can control it or not is wrong . They may be reluctant to admit they have such feelings, but at least they would be less likely to act upon them because of the stigma that they would receive.
If you sympathise with pedophiles, and mollycoddle them tell them "oh its not your fault, you can think about your young cousin, sister, brother, next door neighbour in a sexual way as long as you don't act upon it is fine'. It will end up with people trying to argue that acting upon those thoughts and feelings causes no harm since thinking about it is ok.
If you sympathise with pedophiles, and mollycoddle them tell them "oh its not your fault, you can think about your young cousin, sister, brother, next door neighbour in a sexual way as long as you don't act upon it is fine'. It will end up with people trying to argue that acting upon those thoughts and feelings causes no harm since thinking about it is ok.
Where pedophilia is condemned, it still happens. We all know it is criminally wrong, but it is a situation which has to be addressed by helping the pedophiles:
A) cope with the problem without harming children
B) access whatever mental treatment is available to null their urges
Letting them suffer in silence (a result of condemning them) will mean they have to address the issue on their own, fight their own willpower, and do so in complete secrecy (increasing the possibility they would get away with offending)
Original post by alis-volatpropriis
We had the pedophile sympathisers in the government years ago, and now we have this on TSR. Its just giving anyone reading this encouragement. Especially the introduction of any cartoon childrens pornography thats just justifying and rationalising as right.
Eventually people get tired of watching material and having thoughts, if you can encourage them to think and watch said material they will eventually facilitate those urges.
Eventually people get tired of watching material and having thoughts, if you can encourage them to think and watch said material they will eventually facilitate those urges.
The idea is not to encourage patients to continue fantasizing about children, but to gradually ease them away from it. Otherwise they may continue supporting real child porn, which is much worse. I think that was Red One's point, not to 'allow' them to keep doing it.
I think pedophilia needs to be looked at from the perspective of pedophiles themselves. This means pedophiles being encouraged to communicate with researchers about their fantasies, so that it is more clearly understood and easier for researchers to determine an effective course of treatment.
Condemning non-offending pedophiles, making them fearful to reveal their situation will only slow down the process.
Original post by karmacrunch
My point is that a sexual attraction to children is wrong! why does no one see this! I'm a child myself I don't want to be thought about sexually by any adult.
Original post by manchesterunited15
brb asking my family to make me stop being attracted to females
Bro It's easy and Karmacrunch is totally right. If someone decides your sexual attraction is wrong, you can just change it, there's a government form for that **** or something. I mean I'll be honest here, I have a kink which some will say is gross/sick etc, so I've obviously just changed my mind about it. I was a heterosexual like you once MU15, but after some jokey conversations with some gay guys, they said I should think about becoming homosexual. Not only so I could try things with a guy, but it would also remove my kink as its a women only thing. So I thought to myself, well why not? My attraction to females is an obvious conscious decision, so why not just decide to be attracted to the D instead? So I did, simple as that, it's so easy. Every paedophile should just talk to their family about it, a few hours with a psychologist to explain its wrong, and they'll be lusting after sexy sexual mature women/men in no time.
Btw Karmacrunch, you thought of becoming a lesbian? Only reason I ask is with both partners being able to have multiple orgasms and knowing each others anatomy well, you may find things even more pleasurable. Talk to your friends/family then try it out for a few months, if it's not for you then you can always talk to a therapist for a few sessions and you'll be back to your heterosexual self.
Seriously though, good on him for trying to help himself. I feel really sorry for paedophiles who must struggle so much with their sexuality and don't act on it. It's too bad as a society we're so aggressive towards them, as there's no way a paedophile can open up and ask for help controlling their urges without people labeling them as disgusting, being ostracized, risking physical assault or worse. I mean sexual desire is a very strong base feeling, imagine knowing that you will not ever be able to satisfy your desire for physical sexual encounters as you know yourself it's highly immoral and damaging to any pre-pubescent children involved.
Surely though as said, they could be applied to any straight/gay couples. There's a reason rape fantasy is among the most common for women and although I don't know if dominating a female is the most common male fantasy, I would say male domination is pretty common. So the risk a paedophile imagining themselves having power is on the same level as an average guy imagining forcing themselves on a women.
Original post by joey11223
Seriously though, good on him for trying to help himself. I feel really sorry for paedophiles who must struggle so much with their sexuality and don't act on it. It's too bad as a society we're so aggressive towards them, as there's no way a paedophile can open up and ask for help controlling their urges without people labeling them as disgusting, being ostracized, risking physical assault or worse. I mean sexual desire is a very strong base feeling, imagine knowing that you will not ever be able to satisfy your desire for physical sexual encounters as you know yourself it's highly immoral and damaging to any pre-pubescent children involved.
Seriously though, good on him for trying to help himself. I feel really sorry for paedophiles who must struggle so much with their sexuality and don't act on it. It's too bad as a society we're so aggressive towards them, as there's no way a paedophile can open up and ask for help controlling their urges without people labeling them as disgusting, being ostracized, risking physical assault or worse. I mean sexual desire is a very strong base feeling, imagine knowing that you will not ever be able to satisfy your desire for physical sexual encounters as you know yourself it's highly immoral and damaging to any pre-pubescent children involved.
This is true. We should support them so they can talk about it, rather than demonise them and making them more likely to actually commit a crime.
I have always felt sympathetic to people whose urges in life they cannot morally act upon. Nobody chooses what they are attracted to; this does not mean that we should accept such an attraction but it does mean we should be kind to those who have it.
Original post by manchesterunited15
This is true. We should support them so they can talk about it, rather than demonise them and making them more likely to actually commit a crime.
I honestly don't know what how best to help someone in that situation. I mean they can't just watch pornography, as they're watching someone who's hurt a kid themselves. There was a discussion a while back about virtual pornography as an option, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with that. I know people will say watching it will lead them to want to act it out IRL, but they already technically would want to, they just know they can't. Anyway it exists as is, I mean anyone who's seen risque anime/hentai will likely know any sites which cater to it have loli as a huge category of content, it's...kind of disturbing just how popular it is tbh.
Original post by manchesterunited15
This is true. We should support them so they can talk about it, rather than demonise them and making them more likely to actually commit a crime.
However, if they do commit the crime they are the ones at fault. A failure to realise this would lead to a failure of moral responsibility. We can recognise that free will does not exist while maintaining a society which treats individuals with personal accountability; it is not contradictory.
Really though, people on here seem utterly incapable of being objective. I'm sure there are people who have been personally victimized or have a personal tie to this issue and I respect that...but that does not make your opinions any more credible. I'm sorry to say it but it makes them less credible when you react emotionally and seemingly out of spite and fear.
What is wrong with a group coming together to support each other and prevent each other from doing something which they all recognize is wrong? What is wrong with them counseling each other? We could even have psychologists there to help them too. But really...we let alcoholics run their own meetings and help keep each other in check so why can't we do the same with pedophiles?
Now obviously people are going to say "But you can't compare pedophilia to alcoholism!" to which there is the obvious reply of I am not. I am comparing the structure of a support system which we have for many things. We make support groups for people who are suffering similarly and allow them to work through their suffering. Pedophiles are suffering are they not? So they fit into this model.
What is wrong with a group coming together to support each other and prevent each other from doing something which they all recognize is wrong? What is wrong with them counseling each other? We could even have psychologists there to help them too. But really...we let alcoholics run their own meetings and help keep each other in check so why can't we do the same with pedophiles?
Now obviously people are going to say "But you can't compare pedophilia to alcoholism!" to which there is the obvious reply of I am not. I am comparing the structure of a support system which we have for many things. We make support groups for people who are suffering similarly and allow them to work through their suffering. Pedophiles are suffering are they not? So they fit into this model.
Original post by joey11223
I honestly don't know what how best to help someone in that situation. I mean they can't just watch pornography, as they're watching someone who's hurt a kid themselves. There was a discussion a while back about virtual pornography as an option, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with that. I know people will say watching it will lead them to want to act it out IRL, but they already technically would want to, they just know they can't. Anyway it exists as is, I mean anyone who's seen risque anime/hentai will likely know any sites which cater to it have loli as a huge category of content, it's...kind of disturbing just how popular it is tbh.
I'm pretty sure studies have shown that accessibility to simulated child porn actually has a correlation with a reduced rate of child molestation.
Original post by manchesterunited15
So? Feelings don't hurt anyone.
It's not quite that simple, it may be that it mounts up over the years and eventually spills over into the real world. I think he has a responsibility to manage his thoughts, sublimate or redirect them. It would also be in his own interests. I would certainly support free therapy for paedophiles to help achieve this.
Original post by TolerantBeing
Someone on my facebook linked this podcast recently, and it gave a really interesting perspective on what it must be like for a human being with decent moral values to suffer from pedophilia, to be attracted to children but to despise yourself for it.
http://www.upworthy.com/this-19-year-old-pedophile-has-never-gone-near-a-child-and-he-needs-you-to-hear-his-story?c=ufb1
I must admit, I've thought on occasions before that all pedophiles are sick, vile human beings, who've experienced bleak lives and are tarred from it. But in this podcast speaks a 19 year old who had a stable background, a caring family, but developed an addiction to child pornography, which he is now tackling and trying his hardest to restrain his urges.
I think obviously those who abuse children are worthy of the hatred they receive, and I fully endorse harsh criminal punishment for them. But I think we're also holding a backwards view on the issue. It appears that some people genuinely feel attracted to pre-pubescent children, they can't help that, no matter how much they try. And they are controlling their urges every day. The question is what do we do about this.
Just thought I'd hear your thoughts on the video
http://www.upworthy.com/this-19-year-old-pedophile-has-never-gone-near-a-child-and-he-needs-you-to-hear-his-story?c=ufb1
I must admit, I've thought on occasions before that all pedophiles are sick, vile human beings, who've experienced bleak lives and are tarred from it. But in this podcast speaks a 19 year old who had a stable background, a caring family, but developed an addiction to child pornography, which he is now tackling and trying his hardest to restrain his urges.
I think obviously those who abuse children are worthy of the hatred they receive, and I fully endorse harsh criminal punishment for them. But I think we're also holding a backwards view on the issue. It appears that some people genuinely feel attracted to pre-pubescent children, they can't help that, no matter how much they try. And they are controlling their urges every day. The question is what do we do about this.
Just thought I'd hear your thoughts on the video
In order to remove the chances of him hitting on anyone, would not it make sense for him to get chemically castrated? In that way, he does not have to spend his life fighting his urges.
Original post by karmacrunch
So? The feeling is still there.
He wont be harming any kids. It is fine to have nasty/strange/ immoral etc. thoughts as long as you don't act on them
You cant govern the mind
Original post by karmacrunch
No I'm not narrow-minded. If you were a 12 year old who was being though about by a grown man how would you react? It shouldn't be part of him; although fantasies are just fantasies (they are not supposed to be acted upon), you need to know what is wrong and right.
This is my opinion and I am keeping it.
This is my opinion and I am keeping it.
I judge you for this more than I do the paedophile. His feelings harm nobody except himself and he cannot help them, but people with attitudes like yours do much damage in society.
Unfortunately, paedophilia (as in an attraction to prepubescent children, rather than sexual abuse of such children) has been stigmatised to the extent that the real issue behind it is often missed. Approaching things logically, the only real issue with paedophilia is one of consent - children of the age that a paedophile is attracted to are, the vast majority of the time, too immature to fully appreciate the exact ramifications of getting involved in sexual activity, and so it's unacceptable for anybody to engage in sexual activity with children as it would be tantamount to rape. It's solely an issue of consent.
However, after decades and centuries of these restrictions being in place, paedophilia has become demonised to the extent that the terms for 'a person who has sexual attraction to prepubescent children' and 'a person who sexually abuses prepubescent children' have become the same. And don't get me wrong, acting on paedophilic desires is as wrong as it has ever been, but I do not think it is fair to call somebody 'immoral' for seeking help for an attraction they did not ask for and can only try to suppress. As a result of the stigma, though, the amount of support available to deal with what is a legitimate sexual desire, but one that can never be safely acted upon, is virtually nonexistent - meaning that if you have such desires, all you can do is find some way to suppress it yourself, or get involved in the abuse of children.
However, after decades and centuries of these restrictions being in place, paedophilia has become demonised to the extent that the terms for 'a person who has sexual attraction to prepubescent children' and 'a person who sexually abuses prepubescent children' have become the same. And don't get me wrong, acting on paedophilic desires is as wrong as it has ever been, but I do not think it is fair to call somebody 'immoral' for seeking help for an attraction they did not ask for and can only try to suppress. As a result of the stigma, though, the amount of support available to deal with what is a legitimate sexual desire, but one that can never be safely acted upon, is virtually nonexistent - meaning that if you have such desires, all you can do is find some way to suppress it yourself, or get involved in the abuse of children.
I hold quite a progressive view on paedophilia anyway. I hope he's able to overcome this!
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