God would be the only thing that could bring everything and everyone together

Cast aside for a second whether there is sufficient proof for God as far as your humble, subjective, self is concerned. Yes, you don't look around and see a man with a grey beard (unless you happen to be near one). But God by definition could take any form or decide to remain invisible. And what could possibly have the power to create the merest bit of unconscious stuff, let alone conscious stuff? Logically you could say there should be no God. Bad, 'weird' stuff happening making you disbelieve (as if you necessarily reward normality or super-goodness when it happens to you anyway). But even more logically there should be nothing at all in the universe- and yet there is. But cast that aside for the moment...

All those great soul singers that nobody ever regularly said/says that they hate? They tended/tend to believe in God.

Thinking that there is a God personally looking out for you - in such a way that you can allow your ego to stop intruding so much on other people who don't wish it to AND you know when it is correct to make your ego uncomfortable for a while for a short term unselfish good- that tends to bring more personal sense of satisfaction.

Having no money through little or no fault off your own (say you were born in to a money poor- but hopefully emotionally and, in some ways, intellectually OK- family). Having so much potential yet never being comfortable enough to utilise it / display it - would any of these things necessarily have lasting comfort if there was not a God? Would it ever be possible that you could reach a point where displaying your 'true colours' felt like the natural and beneficial thing to do? Not easily at all if the only people you'd be displaying it to are the ones who had the effect of making you feel kept down in to a predetermined system. But, with God, even being part of a predetermined system would have its comfort.

We are all like fractures of consciousness. I am separate from someone even a few feet away from me. I can do entirely different things. If there is no God, we might as well not talk about a human race. We might as well concentrate on personality instead. In which case, I might be more like a cat than I am like your average person for instance.
Which doesn't mean I should seek a full relationship with a cat! But might mean I should seek a relationship with someone equally cat-like. Opposites don't actually tend to attract in personality terms- only if there is some other attracting factor like money or looks- not a solid ground for a long term relationship.

If you do not believe in God you still, eventually and hopefully naturally, might meet a soulmate. But the truth is that there might not be one for you who will always be there for you for non-selfish reasons. And then you will need God to bring you back to your very self. Otherwise your own consciousness will keep on fracturing itself as getting older leaves you feeling that life is becoming increasingly unfair. Which it might be but, chances are, the choices of your youth have a great bearing on this. The ones that were made for you are not your fault as long as you had absolutely no way to know that it would be a good idea to object to them. Without a soulmate (there are extremely few true soulmates), only God can be your true consolation then.

My intellectual instinct is actually atheism. Even my emotional instinct often is- just because I think that so few are 'soulful' (or 'soul full' if you like). But I tell myself that my instincts must be wrong.
Ironically, I feel that only God could explain the mess of the universe because only God can be the true checks and balances. And it's up to arguments like mine to make people see that a Godless universe would be no consolation at all. At all. No God = no objective truth beyond crude mathematics and 'educated guesses' based on past experience, experience that was of course, the result of subjectivity seen through subjective eyes.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 1

username207685

So in summary: you find a godless universe a scary place, therefore god.

I won't put forward an argument on that point either way, but I will say that just because a truth might be distasteful it does not make it any less the truth.

Original post by Picnic1

Thinking that there is a God personally looking out for you - in such a way that you can allow your ego to stop intruding so much on other people who don't wish it to AND you know when it is correct to make your ego uncomfortable for a while for a short term unselfish good- that tends to bring more personal sense of satisfaction..

The religious position on ego has always confused me. People who believe an infinitely complex and powerful being created the universe just for them and cares for them personally talk about humility, while people who believe they are essentially an insignificant cosmic accident in a pitiless universe that came from nothing and will return to nothing are supposed to be egomaniacs.

Reply 2

Picnic1

All the 'cast aside' paragraph was actually my 'therefore God' part. I essentially don't 'believe' the part of science that says that we don't necessarily need God as an explanation for how there came to be any 'stuff' in the universe. I mean, wouldn't you say, just casually to yourself, that it would seem massivly more likely that , if there was no God that a) there would be no stuff either and b) if such a miracle happened that there was stuff, that stuff would be unconscious stuff (consciousness being, it could be argued, infinitely more complex to just 'be'. You know, you like it would be infinitely complicated for God to just be as well. I am essentially arguing - it is my view there is no way that the miracle of stuff could have happened without the actually far more simple miracle of God just being there to do it. And science provides no explanation that is not at least as equally mysterious as God. So even if we call it Mother Nature instead of God something strange happened and I propose that Mother Nature must have had some kind of consciousness even if it was as mundane as 'I'm bored- there's nothing on in this universe. Let's make something'.

I make no claims about different religions. There's no point arguing about them if you think you've argued enough for God existence.
Do all the wars in God's name disprove God? Perhaps they do! (Except the dead may be in heaven if God exists of course). And yet, logically, it makes more sense to me that a consciousness of some kind at least was there at the start. A dumb, malevolent consciousness in some people's view of course.

Regarding ego, I personally don't think that a believer in God should be egoless. But their ego should reach an equilibrium (hopefully as part of a loving relationship- if only with their parents) so much that others can't really get a 'handle' on them, as in they can't be just used / put in to a category as just a 'goody two shoes'.
It's actually a superego under the disguise of humbleness. It is a lasting and trusty armour for many a supposedly 'ordinary 'person.

Atheists are not necessarily egomaniacs. But those who have lived quietly great and good lives regardless will be saved anyway because they actually believed in true love (of career, of people) and to believe in true love you are Godly. Even 'God is dead' Nietzsche may be far more Godly than many 'religious' people who are only religious out of social obligation.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 3

Picnic1

All the 'cast aside' paragraph was actually my 'therefore God' part. I essentially don't 'believe' the part of science that says that we don't necessarily need God as an explanation for how there cam to be any 'stuff' in the universe. I mean, wouldn't you say, just casually to yourself, that it would seem massivly more likely that , if there was no God that a) there would be no stuff either and b) if such a miracle happened that there was stuff, that stuff would be unconscious stuff (consciousness being, it could be argued, infinitely more complex to just 'be'. You know, you like it would be infinitely complicated for God to just be as well. I am essentially arguing - it is my view there is no way that the miracle of stuff could have happened without the actually far more simple miracle of God just being there to do it. And science provides no explanation that is not at least as equally mysterious as God. So even if we call it Mother Nature instead of God something strange happened and I propose that Mother Nature must have had some kind of consciousness even if it was as mundane as 'I'm bored- there's nothing on in this universe. Let's make something'.

Regarding ego, I personally don't think that a believer in God should be egoless. But their ego should reach an equilibrium (hopefully as part of a loving relationship- if only with their parents) so much that others can't really get a 'handle' on them, as in they can't be just used / put in to a category as just a 'goody two shoes'.
It's actually a superego under the disguise of humbleness. It is a lasting and trusty armour for many a supposedly 'ordinary 'person.

Atheists are not necessarily egomaniacs. But those who have lived quietly great and good lives regardless will be saved anyway because they actually believed in true love (of career, of people) and to believe in true love you are Godly. Even 'God is dead' Nietzsche may be far more Godly than many 'religious' people who are only religious out of social obligation.

Reply 4

Stony Owner

I'm an atheist and I'm all for us living in an interconnected, respectful way that acknowledges our similarities as a species and the fact that our world is one ecosystem. If you define God as "love" then I believe in God, but that is completely misleading because the word "God" has tons of connotations, especially in holy books etc, which I don't see as being very sensible. So I don't really get what you're saying when you say, "atheists...who have lived quietly great and good lives regardless will be saved anyway". It seems a really silly claim to me because I just think - ok then, why believe in God at all if you can reduce God down to something as simple as love (which clearly exists)?

I know it's tricky with terminology here and attempting to put these concepts into language but that's what we gotta do to communicate I'm afraid.